Hi folks. I'm new to orchids and new to this group. I'm hoping
you'll share your expertise on a lighting problem. I keep my orchids
on two Humidity Trays (each one is 29.5" x 13.5"). The trays are on a
kitchen counter up against a west-facing window (one window per
tray). Domestic issues dictate that no light units can hang from the
ceiling. (There is no other room in which to keep the orchids).

My proposed solution is to purchase a Sunlight Supply 4-foot
fluorescent Light Stand, which can raise a light unit up to 5 ft. (It
looks to be better quality than the Green Thumb/Jump Up unit). In
that way, I can remove the unit when company comes over and harmony is
maintained. This seems to solve my problem, but am I missing
something important here?

The stand does not appear to come with a fluorescent light unit. The
stand can take all of the Tek-Light T5, Light Wave T5, Satellite II
and Satellite IV grow lights. If you agree that this plan is
workable, what 4 foot fluorescent light unit(s) do you recommend to
hang on it? Given the dimensions of the trays, should I go for a 2
light or 4 light unit? I'm willing to spend some money to get a
quality unit and would appreciate any recommendations as well as some
good places on-line to buy it.
Thanks-
JS

Josh,

I have a solution for you.

Go to Target. Back in the shelving section they have a 3 feet wide x 15
inches deep black or chrome colored unit that is made of wire. These are
the same units that you might see in restaurants in the kitchen. They are
also available at other locations (container store, Home Depot, Lowes, etc)
but Target has the best prices. You can often catch them on sale. They are
about 72 inches tall with 4 or 5 shelves.

You don't have to use all the shelves.

Now go to Home Depot and buy 4 shop lights with 48 inch floresent tubes.
Only buy 2 shop lights if you have lower light plants. Hang the shop lights
from the shelf above the shelf that holds the plant.

I have been able to grow on three levels and the top shelf is available for
supplies or other things.

Have all the power cords at the same end of the shelving unit and put it on
a timer.

You can also buy wheels for this unit so you can move it around....like to
clean behind it.

You should be able to put this together for less than $100 unless you buy
really fancy light fixtures.

It gets the plants off the countertop and allows you to put them somewhere
else. Just bring them out when they are in bloom.

Good Growing,
Gene





wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi folks. I'm new to orchids and new to this group. I'm hoping
you'll share your expertise on a lighting problem. I keep my orchids
on two Humidity Trays (each one is 29.5" x 13.5"). The trays are on a
kitchen counter up against a west-facing window (one window per
tray). Domestic issues dictate that no light units can hang from the
ceiling. (There is no other room in which to keep the orchids).

My proposed solution is to purchase a Sunlight Supply 4-foot
fluorescent Light Stand, which can raise a light unit up to 5 ft. (It
looks to be better quality than the Green Thumb/Jump Up unit). In
that way, I can remove the unit when company comes over and harmony is
maintained. This seems to solve my problem, but am I missing
something important here?

The stand does not appear to come with a fluorescent light unit. The
stand can take all of the Tek-Light T5, Light Wave T5, Satellite II
and Satellite IV grow lights. If you agree that this plan is
workable, what 4 foot fluorescent light unit(s) do you recommend to
hang on it? Given the dimensions of the trays, should I go for a 2
light or 4 light unit? I'm willing to spend some money to get a
quality unit and would appreciate any recommendations as well as some
good places on-line to buy it.
Thanks-
JS

Oh....and if you need to keep them on the counter you can buy smaller shelf
units at Target that are only about 36 inches tall and could do the same
thing as the light stand.

Gene



"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:hAjGi.9553$Ic3.5302@trndny09...
Josh,

I have a solution for you.

Go to Target. Back in the shelving section they have a 3 feet wide x 15
inches deep black or chrome colored unit that is made of wire. These are
the same units that you might see in restaurants in the kitchen. They are
also available at other locations (container store, Home Depot, Lowes,
etc) but Target has the best prices. You can often catch them on sale.
They are about 72 inches tall with 4 or 5 shelves.

You don't have to use all the shelves.

Now go to Home Depot and buy 4 shop lights with 48 inch floresent tubes.
Only buy 2 shop lights if you have lower light plants. Hang the shop
lights from the shelf above the shelf that holds the plant.

I have been able to grow on three levels and the top shelf is available
for supplies or other things.

Have all the power cords at the same end of the shelving unit and put it
on a timer.

You can also buy wheels for this unit so you can move it around....like to
clean behind it.

You should be able to put this together for less than $100 unless you buy
really fancy light fixtures.

It gets the plants off the countertop and allows you to put them somewhere
else. Just bring them out when they are in bloom.

Good Growing,
Gene





wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi folks. I'm new to orchids and new to this group. I'm hoping
you'll share your expertise on a lighting problem. I keep my orchids
on two Humidity Trays (each one is 29.5" x 13.5"). The trays are on a
kitchen counter up against a west-facing window (one window per
tray). Domestic issues dictate that no light units can hang from the
ceiling. (There is no other room in which to keep the orchids).

My proposed solution is to purchase a Sunlight Supply 4-foot
fluorescent Light Stand, which can raise a light unit up to 5 ft. (It
looks to be better quality than the Green Thumb/Jump Up unit). In
that way, I can remove the unit when company comes over and harmony is
maintained. This seems to solve my problem, but am I missing
something important here?

The stand does not appear to come with a fluorescent light unit. The
stand can take all of the Tek-Light T5, Light Wave T5, Satellite II
and Satellite IV grow lights. If you agree that this plan is
workable, what 4 foot fluorescent light unit(s) do you recommend to
hang on it? Given the dimensions of the trays, should I go for a 2
light or 4 light unit? I'm willing to spend some money to get a
quality unit and would appreciate any recommendations as well as some
good places on-line to buy it.
Thanks-
JS

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:28:49 -0700, wrote:

Hi folks. I'm new to orchids and new to this group. I'm hoping
you'll share your expertise on a lighting problem.

The stand does not appear to come with a fluorescent light unit. The
stand can take all of the Tek-Light T5, Light Wave T5, Satellite II
and Satellite IV grow lights. If you agree that this plan is
workable, what 4 foot fluorescent light unit(s) do you recommend to
hang on it? Given the dimensions of the trays, should I go for a 2
light or 4 light unit? I'm willing to spend some money to get a
quality unit and would appreciate any recommendations as well as some
good places on-line to buy it.
Thanks-
JS

Save the money to take him out for a steak dinner and buy standard
fluorescent tubes. Run 4 tubes per shelf and adjust the height of
plants so similar heights and light needs are on a shelf. Then adjust
the light fixture to that height. Low light plants can sit beneath
some tall ones - but remember light decreases Radically fast as you
increase the distance. Ray has a good explanation -
Firstrays.com Lots of free info here - indulge yourself with a visit.
Also remember to date the tubes and change them out after 12 months.
If you move plants outside in the summer - that 12 months maybe across
a couple of calendar years. The timer is a requirement. I also
bought plastic by the yard at Hancock Fabrics and wrapped the open
face to hold up the humidity. Clipped it on with a couple of
oversized clamps that look like clip-on clothes pins and it comes down
easily.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

On Sep 13, 10:42 pm, SuE wrote:

Save the money to take him out for a steak dinner and buy standard
fluorescent tubes. Run 4 tubes per shelf and adjust the height of
plants so similar heights and light needs are on a shelf. Then adjust
the light fixture to that height. Low light plants can sit beneath
some tall ones - but remember light decreases Radically fast as you
increase the distance. ...

From a point source, light obeys the inverse square law of radiation,
i.e. the intensity of the light decreases as the inverse of the square
of the distance. For example a light twice as far away will be 1/4 as
intense, three times as far, 1/9 as intense, etc.

HOWEVER, from a large or diffuse source such as a fluorescent tube,
the falloff is less drastic because the tube is, in effect, a large
number of overlapping point sources. The handy rule for such a source
is that the intensity falls off as the inverse of the distance, i.e.
twice as far ,1/2 as intense, three times as far, 1/3, etc.

J. Del Col

On Sep 13, 5:28 pm, wrote:
Hi folks. I'm new to orchids and new to this group. I'm hoping
you'll share your expertise on a lighting problem. I keep my orchids
on two Humidity Trays (each one is 29.5" x 13.5"). The trays are on a
kitchen counter up against a west-facing window (one window per
tray). Domestic issues dictate that no light units can hang from the
ceiling. (There is no other room in which to keep the orchids).

My proposed solution is to purchase a Sunlight Supply 4-foot
fluorescent Light Stand, which can raise a light unit up to 5 ft. (It
looks to be better quality than the Green Thumb/Jump Up unit). In
that way, I can remove the unit when company comes over and harmony is
maintained. This seems to solve my problem, but am I missing
something important here?

The stand does not appear to come with a fluorescent light unit. The
stand can take all of the Tek-Light T5, Light Wave T5, Satellite II
and Satellite IV grow lights. If you agree that this plan is
workable, what 4 foot fluorescent light unit(s) do you recommend to
hang on it? Given the dimensions of the trays, should I go for a 2
light or 4 light unit? I'm willing to spend some money to get a
quality unit and would appreciate any recommendations as well as some
good places on-line to buy it.
Thanks-
JS

HI folks - Thanks so much for the information. Per your advice, I've
divorced my wife. However, this hasn't yet helped my orchids. The
actual problem is that our house is Old and the kitchen windows offer
the only strong source of natural light. This is why they have to
stay on the counter. I'm also interested to hear you all say that
enhanced fluorescent grow lights are no better than the regular
tubes. That should save some $$s.
Regards-
js

wrote in message
ups.com...

HI folks - Thanks so much for the information. Per your advice, I've
divorced my wife. However, this hasn't yet helped my orchids. The
actual problem is that our house is Old and the kitchen windows offer
the only strong source of natural light. This is why they have to
stay on the counter. I'm also interested to hear you all say that
enhanced fluorescent grow lights are no better than the regular
tubes. That should save some $$s.
Regards-
js


I had friends with the same dilemma. The spent about $1000 to put in a
beautiful huge bay type window in a blank south facing living room wall. It
not only brightened a gloomy dark room but created a haven for their
tropical plants. Would this be an option for you?

On Sep 14, 12:09 pm, "Manelli Family" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...



HI folks - Thanks so much for the information. Per your advice, I've
divorced my wife. However, this hasn't yet helped my orchids. The
actual problem is that our house is Old and the kitchen windows offer
the only strong source of natural light. This is why they have to
stay on the counter. I'm also interested to hear you all say that
enhanced fluorescent grow lights are no better than the regular
tubes. That should save some $$s.
Regards-
js

I had friends with the same dilemma. The spent about $1000 to put in a
beautiful huge bay type window in a blank south facing living room wall. It
not only brightened a gloomy dark room but created a haven for their
tropical plants. Would this be an option for you?

Wouldn't work for me, I'm afraid. My present situation is sort of
nice-we have a huge kitchen stuffed with orchids. My only problem is
supplying enough light in addition to the natural light already
there. That's why I'm thinking that the stand I described and a 4
bulb reflector would solve the problem beautifully. When necessary, I
could simply lift off the reflector and put the frame in our
basement. When the party's over, everything goes back in record
time. It's also within my budget of circa $350 or so. It also solves
my other problem-no manual ability to put anything together
whatsoever! My only question is how to identify makers of quality
fluorescent fixtures for this purpose...People seem to like FarmTek
and SunLight.....

wrote in message
oups.com...
Wouldn't work for me, I'm afraid. My present situation is sort of
nice-we have a huge kitchen stuffed with orchids. My only problem is
supplying enough light in addition to the natural light already
there. That's why I'm thinking that the stand I described and a 4
bulb reflector would solve the problem beautifully. When necessary, I
could simply lift off the reflector and put the frame in our
basement. When the party's over, everything goes back in record
time. It's also within my budget of circa $350 or so. It also solves
my other problem-no manual ability to put anything together
whatsoever! My only question is how to identify makers of quality
fluorescent fixtures for this purpose...People seem to like FarmTek
and SunLight.....

Good luck with whatever light set-up you choose. We have both a large south
and west facing sun room and two greenhouses so light isn't a problem for
us.

Here is a bit of what I have seen on the 200W CFL bulbs
The first one I ever ordered came broke right out of the box. The
spacers that are glued at the top of the tubes had come loose and the
bulb was cracked at the base. The replacement for it lasted about
three weeks then just did not light at all. I have had one other just
give up with less than 100hrs on it. And of course I have broken two
of them myself moving them around (one of them by putting it in a
fixture and one by it slipping in my hand and I tightened my grip and
it just snapped) The 200W are very fragile. I have 4 of the 200 watt
bulbs that have been running 18-20hr a day (two in fixtures and two
hanging in between rowes of shelving) a good bit over two years and
they still put out resonable lummes.
I prefer to use the next wattage down (the 125watt) because...
They are cheaper, put two together and you have more light at less
cost, less fragile, standard base socket and did I mention less
fragile?
I use them just hanging vertically from a socket on a cord.
Also the 200W runs pretty hot (not like the MH or HPS but still they
are hot) My personall opinion and unfounded non scientific reseach
says they run hotter than a 48" 4 tube light and if you have pots
above them they will dry them out in a hurry.
Again this is just my personal research and opinion, yours will very.

On 14 Sep 2007 19:09:19 GMT, ?
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:28:49 -0700 in om wrote:

[SNEEP]


I did something similar to what Gene suggested.
I took 4 48" T12 tube flourescent fixtures intended for use with suspended
ceilings and converted them to corded "shop lights".
(Because someone local was selling those fixtures for less than
the $7 2 tube shop light at Lowes).
I then hung those from the 48"x18"x72" 5 shelf wire shelves.

All in all it was a few power tool replacement cords, half a bag
of wire nuts, several bags of S hooks, a box of bandaids, and some
swearing while drilling holes for S hooks and getting to the ballasts
to hook up the power cords.

I screwed up grounding on one fixture and managed to buzz myself
with it after I moved.
If I were to do it again I would have done two things different.
1) Weld washers at the right locations for use with the S hooks.
2) Plug the lights into a GFCI power strip.

I do keep looking at one actual grow light fixture for the orchids
my wife keeps in the dining room. That would be something like
item 105072 from farmtek (Hanging Full Spectrum Light w/ 200W CFL).

If you have a clue about working with electrical fixtures
the "troffer" lights are the way to go. Look for job sites where
they are upgrading the lighting system to smaller diameter tubes.

I, too, use a 125W CFL for extra lighting, but mine is horizontal in a
reflector. It;s too much for phals at a distance of 18", which easily
covers the 4' x 5' area I had it lighting.

The first lasted well over a year before the ballast started smoldering....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


wrote in message
...
Here is a bit of what I have seen on the 200W CFL bulbs
The first one I ever ordered came broke right out of the box. The
spacers that are glued at the top of the tubes had come loose and the
bulb was cracked at the base. The replacement for it lasted about
three weeks then just did not light at all. I have had one other just
give up with less than 100hrs on it. And of course I have broken two
of them myself moving them around (one of them by putting it in a
fixture and one by it slipping in my hand and I tightened my grip and
it just snapped) The 200W are very fragile. I have 4 of the 200 watt
bulbs that have been running 18-20hr a day (two in fixtures and two
hanging in between rowes of shelving) a good bit over two years and
they still put out resonable lummes.
I prefer to use the next wattage down (the 125watt) because...
They are cheaper, put two together and you have more light at less
cost, less fragile, standard base socket and did I mention less
fragile?
I use them just hanging vertically from a socket on a cord.
Also the 200W runs pretty hot (not like the MH or HPS but still they
are hot) My personall opinion and unfounded non scientific reseach
says they run hotter than a 48" 4 tube light and if you have pots
above them they will dry them out in a hurry.
Again this is just my personal research and opinion, yours will very.

On 14 Sep 2007 19:09:19 GMT, ?
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:28:49 -0700 in
.com
wrote:

[SNEEP]


I did something similar to what Gene suggested.
I took 4 48" T12 tube flourescent fixtures intended for use with suspended
ceilings and converted them to corded "shop lights".
(Because someone local was selling those fixtures for less than
the $7 2 tube shop light at Lowes).
I then hung those from the 48"x18"x72" 5 shelf wire shelves.

All in all it was a few power tool replacement cords, half a bag
of wire nuts, several bags of S hooks, a box of bandaids, and some
swearing while drilling holes for S hooks and getting to the ballasts
to hook up the power cords.

I screwed up grounding on one fixture and managed to buzz myself
with it after I moved.
If I were to do it again I would have done two things different.
1) Weld washers at the right locations for use with the S hooks.
2) Plug the lights into a GFCI power strip.

I do keep looking at one actual grow light fixture for the orchids
my wife keeps in the dining room. That would be something like
item 105072 from farmtek (Hanging Full Spectrum Light w/ 200W CFL).

If you have a clue about working with electrical fixtures
the "troffer" lights are the way to go. Look for job sites where
they are upgrading the lighting system to smaller diameter tubes.

I still falls off at the same rate.
"
HOWEVER, from a large or diffuse source such as a fluorescent tube,
the falloff is less drastic because the tube is, in effect, a large
number of overlapping point sources. The handy rule for such a source
is that the intensity falls off as the inverse of the distance, i.e.
twice as far ,1/2 as intense, three times as far, 1/3, etc.

J. Del Col

If you are considering large cfl's I would strongly recomend you at least
think about a small MH or HPS. Not only are CFL's very fragile and tend to
not last anywere near their rated life (Made in China) they are also only
about half as efficent as MH. On a watt per lumen basis hps and mh give of
twice the light and only half the heat. ie a 100W MH would give off the same
light as a 200W CFL and only a quarter of the heat. The big kicker is a
small MH is only about $50-$75 more and replacement cost on the bulb is
only about $30 Vs $85-$150. Unfortunaltly not that great for shelving
systems as all the light is coming from one source. HPS is even more
efficient but have an icky colour of light.

wrote in message
...
Here is a bit of what I have seen on the 200W CFL bulbs
The first one I ever ordered came broke right out of the box. The
spacers that are glued at the top of the tubes had come loose and the
bulb was cracked at the base. The replacement for it lasted about
three weeks then just did not light at all. I have had one other just
give up with less than 100hrs on it. And of course I have broken two
of them myself moving them around (one of them by putting it in a
fixture and one by it slipping in my hand and I tightened my grip and
it just snapped) The 200W are very fragile. I have 4 of the 200 watt
bulbs that have been running 18-20hr a day (two in fixtures and two
hanging in between rowes of shelving) a good bit over two years and
they still put out resonable lummes.
I prefer to use the next wattage down (the 125watt) because...
They are cheaper, put two together and you have more light at less
cost, less fragile, standard base socket and did I mention less
fragile?
I use them just hanging vertically from a socket on a cord.
Also the 200W runs pretty hot (not like the MH or HPS but still they
are hot) My personall opinion and unfounded non scientific reseach
says they run hotter than a 48" 4 tube light and if you have pots
above them they will dry them out in a hurry.
Again this is just my personal research and opinion, yours will very.

it always falls off at the same rate. The difference is a florescent tube
is long and narrow, so the 'point' of light is really many points of light.
But the rate of decrease remains the same from each point source of light no
matter what type of lamp produces it. It is an inverse square; so three
feet is 9 times less intense and two feet is 4 times less intense...than the
intensity at the source, and four feet is...?

....and gravity propagates forward at the speed of light. If the sun
disappeared now, the earth would behave as if it had a gravitational body
holding it in orbit for how long?

....and the efficacy of earth made O-Rings and foam insulation on
interstellar space craft can be summed up best by what Simpson-esc buzz
word?

"Duncan" wrote in message
news:c8AKi.90$x%6.65@pd7urf2no...
I still falls off at the same rate.
"
HOWEVER, from a large or diffuse source such as a fluorescent tube,
the falloff is less drastic because the tube is, in effect, a large
number of overlapping point sources. The handy rule for such a source
is that the intensity falls off as the inverse of the distance, i.e.
twice as far ,1/2 as intense, three times as far, 1/3, etc.

J. Del Col

Intensity = Light output divided by distance squared

One lumen is equal to the amount of light emitted by one candle that falls
on one square foot of surface one foot away.

One foot-candle equals the amount of light falls on one square foot or
surface located on foot away from one candle.

What this means is that the relationship between distance and intensity is
built into the calculation and determination of the two standards standards.
A lamp that is rated at 1000 lumens means that at *one foot* distance from
the lamp surface the intensity is 1000 lumens (not at the lamp surface....my
bad). It decreases at an inverse square from one foot. At two feet the
lumens per square foot is 250 or 1/4 less. The initial distance is fixed at
one foot, it is part of the calculation. It is wrong to think of intensity
as decreasing in the same relationship if an arbitrary distance is used.
One yard form the light source is still 1/9th less intense.

"Al" wrote in message news:j3BKi.6941$f%1.2933@trnddc01...
it always falls off at the same rate. The difference is a florescent tube
is long and narrow, so the 'point' of light is really many points of
light. But the rate of decrease remains the same from each point source of
light no matter what type of lamp produces it. It is an inverse square;
so three feet is 9 times less intense and two feet is 4 times less
intense...than the intensity at the source, and four feet is...?

...and gravity propagates forward at the speed of light. If the sun
disappeared now, the earth would behave as if it had a gravitational body
holding it in orbit for how long?

...and the efficacy of earth made O-Rings and foam insulation on
interstellar space craft can be summed up best by what Simpson-esc buzz
word?

"Duncan" wrote in message
news:c8AKi.90$x%6.65@pd7urf2no...
I still falls off at the same rate.
"
HOWEVER, from a large or diffuse source such as a fluorescent tube,
the falloff is less drastic because the tube is, in effect, a large
number of overlapping point sources. The handy rule for such a source
is that the intensity falls off as the inverse of the distance, i.e.
twice as far ,1/2 as intense, three times as far, 1/3, etc.

J. Del Col