I know there are some growers/sellers here ,those of you that have turned
your hobby into a bussinnes i have a personel Q! Do you make enough
money(profit after running costs) from selling orchids for it to be the only
income? I know this is a broad Q as it depends what income the individual
requires to live to the standard they are happy with. I am asking this Q as
i am hopefully embarking into the selling side,initially hopefully to cover
the heating costs.But my dream would be to be able to pack my job in and
have a fully up and running orchid nursury that is my nursury/full time job.
I would need £20,000 min wages after tax etc a year to be able to fully live
from it.
But i have no idea what orchid nursuries turn over as obviously this sort of
info isnt normally disclosed.I suspect things are quite tight
financially,but if this is true how are bussineses able to keep running?I am
basing this on the UK ,were i live i feel there is a market here as there
isnt a lot of growers in the UK so choice is very limited .I know that in
other countries like USA choice isnt a problem?
Thanks for any input
Cheers Keith

Sure, "there's money in orchids", but how much is highly variable, based
upon the market and how you approach it.

The more lucrative businesses in the US have large physical plants, have a
high product turnover, attend lots of shows and orchid fairs as they are the
most concentrated selling opportunities, and have developed targeted talks
that they can present to orchid societies as a way to get their name "out
there", spread the word about their success or expertise, and also to sell
more.

Here, I would speculate that I would need gross sales of about £60,000- to
£70,000 or more to clear £20,000. I don't know what the tax laws are there,
so it could be better or worse, but my number includes the need for health
insurance, which is not an issue for you. Then there's the cost of
heating....

You also have to keep in mind the market: AOS membership is about 1% of the
population, there are a lot of orchid growers that are not members, orchids
are second only to poinsettias in sales, and the American public is a lot
more open to the "impulse buy" than is the typical Brit. You, on the other
hand, have a small immediate market, but do - I believe - have easy access
to the European market as a whole. Here, there is an orchid show or fair
almost every weekend, and there are enough societies out there that there is
usually a speaking engagement to be had, if you can travel. I doubt that
that's so "open" over there.

The bottom line is that you're not likely to get rich as an orchid vendor,
but it is possible to get by, if done right.
--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Keith Kent" wrote in message
...
I know there are some growers/sellers here ,those of you that have turned
your hobby into a bussinnes i have a personel Q! Do you make enough
money(profit after running costs) from selling orchids for it to be the
only income? I know this is a broad Q as it depends what income the
individual requires to live to the standard they are happy with. I am
asking this Q as i am hopefully embarking into the selling side,initially
hopefully to cover the heating costs.But my dream would be to be able to
pack my job in and have a fully up and running orchid nursury that is my
nursury/full time job.
I would need £20,000 min wages after tax etc a year to be able to fully
live from it.
But i have no idea what orchid nursuries turn over as obviously this sort
of info isnt normally disclosed.I suspect things are quite tight
financially,but if this is true how are bussineses able to keep running?I
am basing this on the UK ,were i live i feel there is a market here as
there isnt a lot of growers in the UK so choice is very limited .I know
that in other countries like USA choice isnt a problem?
Thanks for any input
Cheers Keith

Oops. That should have read "AOS membership is about 0.01% of the
population,"

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Ray" wrote in message
news:PEq_g.3085$k63.728@trndny06...
Sure, "there's money in orchids", but how much is highly variable, based
upon the market and how you approach it.

The more lucrative businesses in the US have large physical plants, have a
high product turnover, attend lots of shows and orchid fairs as they are
the
most concentrated selling opportunities, and have developed targeted talks
that they can present to orchid societies as a way to get their name "out
there", spread the word about their success or expertise, and also to sell
more.

Here, I would speculate that I would need gross sales of about £60,000- to
£70,000 or more to clear £20,000. I don't know what the tax laws are
there,
so it could be better or worse, but my number includes the need for health
insurance, which is not an issue for you. Then there's the cost of
heating....

You also have to keep in mind the market: AOS membership is about 1% of
the
population, there are a lot of orchid growers that are not members,
orchids
are second only to poinsettias in sales, and the American public is a lot
more open to the "impulse buy" than is the typical Brit. You, on the
other
hand, have a small immediate market, but do - I believe - have easy access
to the European market as a whole. Here, there is an orchid show or fair
almost every weekend, and there are enough societies out there that there
is
usually a speaking engagement to be had, if you can travel. I doubt that
that's so "open" over there.

The bottom line is that you're not likely to get rich as an orchid vendor,
but it is possible to get by, if done right.
--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Keith Kent" wrote in message
...
I know there are some growers/sellers here ,those of you that have turned
your hobby into a bussinnes i have a personel Q! Do you make enough
money(profit after running costs) from selling orchids for it to be the
only income? I know this is a broad Q as it depends what income the
individual requires to live to the standard they are happy with. I am
asking this Q as i am hopefully embarking into the selling side,initially
hopefully to cover the heating costs.But my dream would be to be able to
pack my job in and have a fully up and running orchid nursury that is my
nursury/full time job.
I would need £20,000 min wages after tax etc a year to be able to fully
live from it.
But i have no idea what orchid nursuries turn over as obviously this sort
of info isnt normally disclosed.I suspect things are quite tight
financially,but if this is true how are bussineses able to keep running?I
am basing this on the UK ,were i live i feel there is a market here as
there isnt a lot of growers in the UK so choice is very limited .I know
that in other countries like USA choice isnt a problem?
Thanks for any input
Cheers Keith

The orchid economy is broken. At Cosco four pansies in a six inch pot
(plastic "bowl of color") are currently $14.95, in a few months the same
shelf space will be selling six inch, two spiked Phals in terracotta pots
for $16.95.

There is a world wide glut of orchids due in part to a US ag survey which
reports highly inflated counts of orchids sold in the US. The AOS worked to
make orchids a line item on the survey. Now that orchids are a line item,
instead of trying to correct the numbers, the AOS runs around claiming to be
number 1 blooming house plant (or number two houseplant second only to
poinsettias) like a lot of third graders. I urge all orchid grows to refuse
to fill out the survey until the inflation problem is corrected. Filling
out that Jan survey is completely voluntary and I have not fill it out for
the past couple of years.

The US orchid growers have been sold out in exchange of apple interests at
the trade table. Boats are now arriving with mature Phals in pot for the US
market. Some of the Asian countries, with government subsidies can produce
blooming plants for just under $1. I must charge almost a dollar on each
plant I sell just to cover my insurance bills. Instead of addressing the
problem, the IPA publishes unquestioned articles by government ag employees
stating how the boats full of plants will be a good thing for the US
growers. I have let my IPA membership expire. A Hawaiian growers group
tried to fight the new rules and were plowed under in court. Maybe it will
be different in the EU, I do not think the Dutch will roll over so easy,
unless of course they plan to move there growing overseas.

Ray's post that claims a 33% profit in orchid sales is just silly. I know
more full time growers locking their doors this year than in any other year
of the two decades I have been in this business. The orchid world is
changing and I think there is going to be little room for anyone except the
very big growers/importers selling directly to the box stores and the hobby
vendor who hopes to subsidize their hobby and get a few free plants. Keith,
right now is not the time to quit the day job. Try being a hobby vendor and
maybe you can find a nitch which allows you to move to full time. But
remember Morrison's now has a 5 pound phal that you will need to compete
with.

How am I doing? Check out my eBay store
http://stores.ebay.com/Brennans-Orchids-LLC and you will see. Auctions
close on Sunday, but a whole new set will be up by Tuesday. I am thinking
of adding pansies to next years line.

Pat





"Keith Kent" wrote in message
...
I know there are some growers/sellers here ,those of you that have turned
your hobby into a bussinnes i have a personel Q! Do you make enough
money(profit after running costs) from selling orchids for it to be the
only income? I know this is a broad Q as it depends what income the
individual requires to live to the standard they are happy with. I am
asking this Q as i am hopefully embarking into the selling side,initially
hopefully to cover the heating costs.But my dream would be to be able to
pack my job in and have a fully up and running orchid nursury that is my
nursury/full time job.
I would need £20,000 min wages after tax etc a year to be able to fully
live from it.
But i have no idea what orchid nursuries turn over as obviously this sort
of info isnt normally disclosed.I suspect things are quite tight
financially,but if this is true how are bussineses able to keep running?I
am basing this on the UK ,were i live i feel there is a market here as
there isnt a lot of growers in the UK so choice is very limited .I know
that in other countries like USA choice isnt a problem?
Thanks for any input
Cheers Keith

Hi Keith,

I am not a grower, but a retired management consultant in the UK, and would like to add to the very helpful comments by Ray and Pat.

As you are aware, your net income after tax is determined by your personal circumstances. But you must be talking of a net profit before tax, of some £30K-£35K, and a turnover of at least 4 times that.

But that is not all. If you are away attending shows and giving talks, you will need additional workers to attend to the daily running of the nursery. The new minimum wage is £5.35 an hour, and you'll need to add an additional £50k of sales per additional worker.

Do also remember that you'll be working almost every weekend.

If I haven't put you off, you can ask me more detailed questions by joining Orchidboard, look up 'weng' and send me a private email. http://www.orchidboard.com

Weng Lim

Keith,

In real life I work for a large New York syndication as their project
executive building a $200,000,000 hotel in Fort Lauderdale. It pays good.

But, without this job I could not keep my business selling orchids-in-flasks
open for long. You almost have to get into selling orchids for love of the
hobby, because you won't get rich on the business. No one can compete with
the Chinese and Koreans who are buying up huge tracts of land outside
Orlando Florida to take over this industry on a huge scale. I personally
watch Krull Smith
http://www.krullsmith.com/
in Apopka near Orlando as my barometer... if they ever close shop then all
the smaller guys (left in America at least) selling orchids in outlet or
third-party centers better sell off their orchid stock and run for the
hills. I also watch Al's Orchid Greenhouse as my second barometer
http://www.orchidexchange.com/
Al Pickrel could write the book on growing a hobby into a real business.
You could learn a lot from him and Ray Barkalow above.

Land close to high population areas holding high sales potential is too
expensive to buy to justify growing just orchids. Orchid greenhouses need
to be out in the boonies with good ground water onsite that can be pumped up
and cheap electricity. When you are in that area then the cost of
transporting your orchid goods to market will eat your shorts after you
factor in additional driver/handling labor, insurance, workman's
compensation, and normal screw-ups killing your plants in transit. Growing
the orchids might be easy for you... but getting them into the actual
consumers hands (ie retail stores) along with the high costs of constant
marketing is a problem seriously impacting your profit amount.

Mick
www.OrchidFlask.com

=======================================

"Keith Kent" wrote in message
...
I know there are some growers/sellers here ,those of you that have turned
your hobby into a bussinnes i have a personel Q! Do you make enough
money(profit after running costs) from selling orchids for it to be the
only income?

clip

Mick, I would take my business off your barometer list. :-) Trust me.
There are subsidies and there are subsidies.

Keith, I would suggest it is not important if other people can make money
selling orchids, but only that you know how to determine if YOU can.
Knowing if you can involves knowing how to collect realistic data on
expenses and avenues to market and how to use a spreadsheet to show you
exactly how profitable or unprofitable each avenue to market is. Among the
many avenues to market you might identify are things like 'flasking' for
pay, shows, mail order, walk-in, internet, eBay and other auctions and lots
of other methods less obvious, like maybe traveling to societies meetings to
give lectures. Any of these can be avenues to income or additional expense
burdens depending on all types of numbers you need to estimate and collect
to feed into your spreadsheet. If you can lay out a spreadsheet and
honestly estimate costs and income needs, you can figure out how to make it
work and how to price your plants or at least why you can't or shouldn't try
any or all avenues you can identify.

Also, remember your own income needs and abilities. Know what your time Is
worth. This has to be one big area where people don't estimate/track
honestly. As Mick has suggested, in order for full time orchid growing to
keep him afloat, he has to determine if his business can support him and his
life AND judge if it can support him as well as other ways he has to make an
income. There is sometimes more to making this determination than what a
spreadsheet can tell you, but remember YOUR time is money. It is an
expenses the business must pay for.

Don't fool yourself that all you want to do is pay for the costs of your
hobby. By that I mean a business has its own costs and takes time away from
your hobby. You will be doing MUCH more than just growing plants to pay for
heating bills. Approach it as a business and honestly track your expenses
and time. One of the things I see people doing who say they are only trying
to pay for the hobby is under reporting to themselves the actual costs of
selling and running their business. You need every penny tracked in order
to know how to price. Don't price something at $25 just because others are
doing it, etc.... I think statements like, "If I include all the time I
spend doing shows and working out in the greenhouse then I wouldn't be
making any money." are silly, but I hear them all the time. It is either a
hobby or a business.

You need a certain asset base in order to even hope to make a projected
income. It is just not possible to make $10,000 a year with an asset base
of $100. There is a calculation out there somewhere that should help you
determine if your spreadsheet figures are possible or wishful thinking or
somewhere in between.

Knowledge of how to use a spreadsheet and knowledge of accounting and
bookkeeping are an asset you MUST have in your pocket unless you plan to pay
somebody for this expertise, which would make this knowledge an expense most
new businesses can't afford.

I am not sure I agree that the orchid industry is broken. I think it is
changing rapidly with unpredictable and unforeseen results and many tried
and true avenues to market no longer work as well as they did just a few
years ago. But I am not trying to present myself as somebody who has a clue
how to make it work. :-)

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
.. .
Keith,

In real life I work for a large New York syndication as their project
executive building a $200,000,000 hotel in Fort Lauderdale. It pays good.

But, without this job I could not keep my business selling
orchids-in-flasks open for long. You almost have to get into selling
orchids for love of the hobby, because you won't get rich on the business.
No one can compete with the Chinese and Koreans who are buying up huge
tracts of land outside Orlando Florida to take over this industry on a
huge scale. I personally watch Krull Smith
http://www.krullsmith.com/
in Apopka near Orlando as my barometer... if they ever close shop then all
the smaller guys (left in America at least) selling orchids in outlet or
third-party centers better sell off their orchid stock and run for the
hills. I also watch Al's Orchid Greenhouse as my second barometer
http://www.orchidexchange.com/
Al Pickrel could write the book on growing a hobby into a real business.
You could learn a lot from him and Ray Barkalow above.

Land close to high population areas holding high sales potential is too
expensive to buy to justify growing just orchids. Orchid greenhouses need
to be out in the boonies with good ground water onsite that can be pumped
up and cheap electricity. When you are in that area then the cost of
transporting your orchid goods to market will eat your shorts after you
factor in additional driver/handling labor, insurance, workman's
compensation, and normal screw-ups killing your plants in transit.
Growing the orchids might be easy for you... but getting them into the
actual consumers hands (ie retail stores) along with the high costs of
constant marketing is a problem seriously impacting your profit amount.

Mick
www.OrchidFlask.com

=======================================

"Keith Kent" wrote in message
...
I know there are some growers/sellers here ,those of you that have turned
your hobby into a bussinnes i have a personel Q! Do you make enough
money(profit after running costs) from selling orchids for it to be the
only income?

clip

Keith,

Al will always be MY barometer. On the day he only writes one sentence to
answer a simple question... then I will know he finally freaked out in total
and we are all in deep spores. So far, it looks like we are all fairly safe
for today.

If you want my assessment on whether there is "still" real money in orchids
then my simple answer is "no". The Asians will own this industry
completely with their throw-away mass-produced hybrids in another two years.
But to doublecheck let's find an old Venezuelan, Hawaiian or Columbian
orchid grower and ask them where the overall market is headed.

Mick

I had a Chinese gentleman in here who wanted me to show him how to pollinate
an orchid and to explain how flasking was done. I told him the internet had
lots of pages devoted to this and he told me his English was not very good.
(It was not very good, no.) Anyway I asked him what language he spoke and
he said Mandarin, so I told him there had to be LOTS of sites in Mandarin
that explained how to flask orchids because orchids are flooding out of
China like oil is flooding in but he said that 'they' consider this
information to be proprietary so it is NOT easy to find it on websites in
china. I thought this was odd and have no way to know if it is true or
not.

Mick, I am about ready to freak out and write a whole book on your ass.

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Keith,

Al will always be MY barometer. On the day he only writes one sentence to
answer a simple question... then I will know he finally freaked out in
total and we are all in deep spores. So far, it looks like we are all
fairly safe for today.

If you want my assessment on whether there is "still" real money in
orchids then my simple answer is "no". The Asians will own this industry
completely with their throw-away mass-produced hybrids in another two
years. But to doublecheck let's find an old Venezuelan, Hawaiian or
Columbian orchid grower and ask them where the overall market is headed.

Mick

Al,

Yeah, the Chinese are tight lipped about that kind of stuff... they often
ask me about how to make agar. I just tell 'em sawdust and honey with a bit
of iron EDDHA chelate and two hits of niacin thrown in.

You know Al... at one time I had a real nice ass when I was competitive
swimmer in school, but now after years of carrying around this big fat
wallet on my hip I think it has gotten a little lopsided. But if you want
to write a book on it then go right ahead. We all like a good ass story.

Mick

Thanks all for the sound advise,i know there is no way of competing with the
phal market.Its a good job i am no good at growing them or want to grow
them.Me and my society friend are doing it together and will be mainly
concentrating on species.So maybe i should have asked is there money in
selling species?I don`t want or expect to make big profits i would just love
to make what i am in my present job.As i would have to obviously pay the
bills which i have now .I know the grass is greener on the other side and
turning your hobby into a serious venture will take away alot of the
pleasure i get now,but i am willing to take a risk as i always lean to the
cautious side.I am 32 and a gas engineer and cannot bare the thought of
doing my job until i am 65! Hopefully we will gradually get going and in
time be able to work part time allowing time for the orchids,then maybe one
day pull in enough money to do it full time.Maybe i watch to many programs
on the tv about people changing there jobs/lives for the good and me wishing
i had the same courage to do something i enjoy,instead of the ritual of
mundane life lots of us lead.I am always jealous when i watch these
shows,maybe i should stop watching them i here you say but they are so
interesting and prove if you are serious and put your life and soul into
something anything is possible!I know there is no way of making a quick buck
and know if i am serious it will be a long hard slog!
Cheers Keith

"al" wrote in message news:1HP_g.1133$GJ.685@trnddc07...
I had a Chinese gentleman in here who wanted me to show him how to
pollinate an orchid and to explain how flasking was done. I told him the
internet had lots of pages devoted to this and he told me his English was
not very good. (It was not very good, no.) Anyway I asked him what
language he spoke and he said Mandarin, so I told him there had to be LOTS
of sites in Mandarin that explained how to flask orchids because orchids
are flooding out of China like oil is flooding in but he said that 'they'
consider this information to be proprietary so it is NOT easy to find it on
websites in china. I thought this was odd and have no way to know if it
is true or not.

Mick, I am about ready to freak out and write a whole book on your ass.

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Keith,

Al will always be MY barometer. On the day he only writes one sentence
to answer a simple question... then I will know he finally freaked out in
total and we are all in deep spores. So far, it looks like we are all
fairly safe for today.

If you want my assessment on whether there is "still" real money in
orchids then my simple answer is "no". The Asians will own this
industry completely with their throw-away mass-produced hybrids in
another two years. But to doublecheck let's find an old Venezuelan,
Hawaiian or Columbian orchid grower and ask them where the overall market
is headed.

Mick

You're right, Pat. In retrospect (it doesn't pay to respond before morning
coffee), I would speculate that I was off by a factor of two- to four in
terms of gross sales - maybe more.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
The orchid economy is broken. At Cosco four pansies in a six inch pot
(plastic "bowl of color") are currently $14.95, in a few months the same
shelf space will be selling six inch, two spiked Phals in terracotta pots
for $16.95.

There is a world wide glut of orchids due in part to a US ag survey which
reports highly inflated counts of orchids sold in the US. The AOS worked
to make orchids a line item on the survey. Now that orchids are a line
item, instead of trying to correct the numbers, the AOS runs around
claiming to be number 1 blooming house plant (or number two houseplant
second only to poinsettias) like a lot of third graders. I urge all
orchid grows to refuse to fill out the survey until the inflation problem
is corrected. Filling out that Jan survey is completely voluntary and I
have not fill it out for the past couple of years.

The US orchid growers have been sold out in exchange of apple interests at
the trade table. Boats are now arriving with mature Phals in pot for the
US market. Some of the Asian countries, with government subsidies can
produce blooming plants for just under $1. I must charge almost a dollar
on each plant I sell just to cover my insurance bills. Instead of
addressing the problem, the IPA publishes unquestioned articles by
government ag employees stating how the boats full of plants will be a
good thing for the US growers. I have let my IPA membership expire. A
Hawaiian growers group tried to fight the new rules and were plowed under
in court. Maybe it will be different in the EU, I do not think the Dutch
will roll over so easy, unless of course they plan to move there growing
overseas.

Ray's post that claims a 33% profit in orchid sales is just silly. I know
more full time growers locking their doors this year than in any other
year of the two decades I have been in this business. The orchid world is
changing and I think there is going to be little room for anyone except
the very big growers/importers selling directly to the box stores and the
hobby vendor who hopes to subsidize their hobby and get a few free plants.
Keith, right now is not the time to quit the day job. Try being a hobby
vendor and maybe you can find a nitch which allows you to move to full
time. But remember Morrison's now has a 5 pound phal that you will need
to compete with.

How am I doing? Check out my eBay store
http://stores.ebay.com/Brennans-Orchids-LLC and you will see. Auctions
close on Sunday, but a whole new set will be up by Tuesday. I am
thinking of adding pansies to next years line.

Pat





"Keith Kent" wrote in message
...
I know there are some growers/sellers here ,those of you that have turned
your hobby into a bussinnes i have a personel Q! Do you make enough
money(profit after running costs) from selling orchids for it to be the
only income? I know this is a broad Q as it depends what income the
individual requires to live to the standard they are happy with. I am
asking this Q as i am hopefully embarking into the selling side,initially
hopefully to cover the heating costs.But my dream would be to be able to
pack my job in and have a fully up and running orchid nursury that is my
nursury/full time job.
I would need £20,000 min wages after tax etc a year to be able to fully
live from it.
But i have no idea what orchid nursuries turn over as obviously this sort
of info isnt normally disclosed.I suspect things are quite tight
financially,but if this is true how are bussineses able to keep running?I
am basing this on the UK ,were i live i feel there is a market here as
there isnt a lot of growers in the UK so choice is very limited .I know
that in other countries like USA choice isnt a problem?
Thanks for any input
Cheers Keith

Diana,

See... Al is whittling down to one sentence. Get ready for a big market
"correction" then a collapse if he repeats it.

Mick

Keith,
I often sit in the back of these forums quietly. You have written what
many of us dream about! I am at a similiar stage. I wonder if it is
profitable? But I've decided it can be.
Now that the "cash crop" of orchids has become such a big business, it
will be hard to compete with the "big box" stores. Like any product
sold at such establishments, it is nearly impossible to beat their
prices. Why even try? But people do...if it's your passion, if you can
keep a level business head, if you are willing to do what it takes...
I know of some small greenhouse growers, who I'll call "GG". Their
business caters to a local retail market, no wholesaling. They seem to
be doing well hybridizing Phals! Many local residents in our small
community (pop. 25,000) who know about "GG", skip the box stores and
buy at this nice little "GG". Their prices are comparable, often
cheaper. Many of the plants are their own unique hybrids and all are
hardier, having been grown locally. Someone may dispute this but Phals
finished locally generally bloom longer. Plants at a box store could
have been delivered from almost anywhere coming out of the carton in
bloom. Some suffer shock. Many stores end up abusing them.
So I asked these "GG" owners if it was worth it? Like so many other
growers have told me, the gentleman replied, "The only way to make a
million dollars in orchids is to start with two million!" They have had
their business for 15 years and found that the sales basically paid for
their 'hobby'. Worth noting is that they travel to sell orchids only 2
or 3 times a year. And they don't sell online. Their sales are
generated by word of mouth advertising as local retail.
So once again the advice was, "don't quit your day job". Other words of
wisdom I've heard are "When your involvement with orchids changes from
obsession to occupation, you may not like orchids so much".
For the general public, in a broad way, orchids are synonymous with
Phalaenopsis. They are often the "cash" crop due to the short growing
cycle and the long lasting blooms. Many grow Phal's for a low profit
high volume hopefully "bread and butter crop". Along with such orchids,
I have been consistently advised to develop a "niche" market. Paphs,
Miniatures, this genus or that. Specialties sell! To a smaller group of
orchid enthusiasts. If there is less competition, they can command a
premium price.

Keith, you have reached out in this public forum. Perhaps you have
received enough feedback. You've inspired me. May I join you in your
queries? We might ask for replies offline as well.
I do have a four part magazine series on cashing in on the orchids
which I can send you offline. I'd be very interested to hear
suggestions of where the market is headed, looking 5 to 10 years out.
If you had it to do over in these days, what would you do differently?
I realize many might say they would stay out of the orchid business.
Where could you suggest that I invest my efforts in furthering the
species or hybridizing? I have a lab, flask room (75 flasks) and 500
mature/specimen orchids in a greenhouse. However I have access to 10
acres and the "seed" money for a larger operation here in coastal South
Carolina. My niche collection is mostly from the Central and South
American species, but I also have a wide selection of fragrant orchids.
I look forward to more replies here or offline,
Lee Bredeson
leeatmagnoliaclassic.com

Keith Kent wrote:
..........Do you make enough money(profit after running costs) from selling orchids for it to be the only income? .....

A great deal of one's success is based upon your knowledge of the
marketplace and willingness to follow it. Case in point:

A local hobby grower was laid off from his job after a merger, but was given
3 years' severance (WOW - can someone do that for me?). He decided to get
into the pink and white phalaenopsis business because he was sure the local
market did not have a good supply. He temporarily rented GH space, bought a
whole bunch of plants, and basically did nothing else.

About a year later he sold out completely - a greenhouse that had never been
erected, the majority of his plants, all of the GH equipment, and a
significant supply of potting materials - all at about 50 cents on the
dollar invested.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Lee" wrote in message
oups.com...
Keith,
I often sit in the back of these forums quietly. You have written what
many of us dream about! I am at a similiar stage. I wonder if it is
profitable? But I've decided it can be.
Now that the "cash crop" of orchids has become such a big business, it
will be hard to compete with the "big box" stores. Like any product
sold at such establishments, it is nearly impossible to beat their
prices. Why even try? But people do...if it's your passion, if you can
keep a level business head, if you are willing to do what it takes...
I know of some small greenhouse growers, who I'll call "GG". Their
business caters to a local retail market, no wholesaling. They seem to
be doing well hybridizing Phals! Many local residents in our small
community (pop. 25,000) who know about "GG", skip the box stores and
buy at this nice little "GG". Their prices are comparable, often
cheaper. Many of the plants are their own unique hybrids and all are
hardier, having been grown locally. Someone may dispute this but Phals
finished locally generally bloom longer. Plants at a box store could
have been delivered from almost anywhere coming out of the carton in
bloom. Some suffer shock. Many stores end up abusing them.
So I asked these "GG" owners if it was worth it? Like so many other
growers have told me, the gentleman replied, "The only way to make a
million dollars in orchids is to start with two million!" They have had
their business for 15 years and found that the sales basically paid for
their 'hobby'. Worth noting is that they travel to sell orchids only 2
or 3 times a year. And they don't sell online. Their sales are
generated by word of mouth advertising as local retail.
So once again the advice was, "don't quit your day job". Other words of
wisdom I've heard are "When your involvement with orchids changes from
obsession to occupation, you may not like orchids so much".
For the general public, in a broad way, orchids are synonymous with
Phalaenopsis. They are often the "cash" crop due to the short growing
cycle and the long lasting blooms. Many grow Phal's for a low profit
high volume hopefully "bread and butter crop". Along with such orchids,
I have been consistently advised to develop a "niche" market. Paphs,
Miniatures, this genus or that. Specialties sell! To a smaller group of
orchid enthusiasts. If there is less competition, they can command a
premium price.

Keith, you have reached out in this public forum. Perhaps you have
received enough feedback. You've inspired me. May I join you in your
queries? We might ask for replies offline as well.
I do have a four part magazine series on cashing in on the orchids
which I can send you offline. I'd be very interested to hear
suggestions of where the market is headed, looking 5 to 10 years out.
If you had it to do over in these days, what would you do differently?
I realize many might say they would stay out of the orchid business.
Where could you suggest that I invest my efforts in furthering the
species or hybridizing? I have a lab, flask room (75 flasks) and 500
mature/specimen orchids in a greenhouse. However I have access to 10
acres and the "seed" money for a larger operation here in coastal South
Carolina. My niche collection is mostly from the Central and South
American species, but I also have a wide selection of fragrant orchids.
I look forward to more replies here or offline,
Lee Bredeson
leeatmagnoliaclassic.com

Keith Kent wrote:
..........Do you make enough money(profit after running costs) from
selling orchids for it to be the only income? .....