so any of you who still get "orchids" mag from the AOS--has there been
any mention of a change in membership numbers since they jacked up the
dues? i'm one of the ones who said "no thanks" to the nearly 30%
increase, so i haven't been getting the magazine. i was just wondering
if anyone knew what effect the rate increase was having...

TIA...


---j_a, who plans on asking for a membership for xmas, so my siblings
can split the fee.

I've heard membership dropped, I don't know how much. That's not something
they would want to publish.
-danny

"unknown" wrote in message
...
so any of you who still get "orchids" mag from the AOS--has there been
any mention of a change in membership numbers since they jacked up the
dues? i'm one of the ones who said "no thanks" to the nearly 30%
increase, so i haven't been getting the magazine. i was just wondering
if anyone knew what effect the rate increase was having...

TIA...


---j_a, who plans on asking for a membership for xmas, so my siblings
can split the fee.

Are magazines still required to put their circulation numbers in that
information page near the beginning? I'm sure there's room to fudge the
numbers a little but it could give a rough idea if they still do that.

Steve

danny wrote:
I've heard membership dropped, I don't know how much. That's not something
they would want to publish.
-danny

"unknown" wrote in message
...

so any of you who still get "orchids" mag from the AOS--has there been
any mention of a change in membership numbers since they jacked up the
dues? i'm one of the ones who said "no thanks" to the nearly 30%
increase, so i haven't been getting the magazine. i was just wondering
if anyone knew what effect the rate increase was having...

TIA...


---j_a, who plans on asking for a membership for xmas, so my siblings
can split the fee.

In article ,
Steve wrote:

Are magazines still required to put their circulation numbers in that
information page near the beginning? I'm sure there's room to fudge the
numbers a little but it could give a rough idea if they still do that.

Steve



-pondering- i suppose an argument could be made that that's a not a
magazine of general circulation, but a "society newsletter" so the
requirement may not apply.

--j_a

I agree with j_a. The current (July) issue of Orchids does not list
circulation numbers. I don't know whether there is a requirement for some
publications, but if there is, certainly a publication that is not offered
at news stands, etc., would be exempt.

Having said that, it would be interesting to know the answer to the original
question. I'm going to contact our AOS rep. I do support AOS, in any event.
I know that in the past there has been a big disconnect between the
hierarchy and the general membership, but I see some big changes in
outreach. Of course, I am in FL and close to the action, so perhaps I see it
more than others who are farther removed.

Diana

Danny,

I've heard through the grapevine that the membership is in "free fall."

That's just the grapevine, though.

I didn't renew at $60.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

"danny" wrote in message
...
I've heard membership dropped, I don't know how much. That's not
something they would want to publish.
-danny

I am not trying to K-nock the AOS. I like the AOS, I have been getting that
"Bulletin" (Now called "Orchids") since the 1980s, however....

http://www.orchidweb.org/aos/orchids/osd-listing.aspx
The grower/vendor listing above on the AOS website is an interesting case to
help answer your question

They list vendors by state for the USA. When I first bought my listing for
Virginia it was $50 for *two* years. Then it jumped to $100 for *two*
years. This renewal period, for just *one* year (July 2006 through July
2007) it cost $100. So the price doubled from last time.

And last month, at the end of the last two year period there were about 7 to
9 vendors listed in Virginia. Today I found one.

I had called to ask if the one year change was a misprint and was told it
was not and the lady from the AOS told me they felt it was a good deal
because of the exposure they could provide my business. What makes me
chuckle is that they don't seem to know they can easily count how many
visitors to their site find a specific link and click on it. They should
know what kind of deal it is and be able to provide their potential
advertisers with real data.

I can do this in reverse: I know where people find the link that brings
them to my site. I have a site statistic program on my site that tracks
this kind of info. In the last two years click-throughs from the AOS
averaged less than 1.5 clicks a week. and I could not spend $1.28 a click
for this amount of exposure next year. In contrast, the orchidmall.com
averages about 25 to 30 a week and Google's various IP addresses account for
closer to 125 to 150 a week.....and these are free.

For the $100 I would also get my business name printed in their Source
directory which they send out to members. I searched for mine last month
and could not find, of course it was two years old at that point and long
buried under piles of stuff in the 'library'. Then I asked a couple of
friends to look something up for me and only one person could find their
copy. I think that about says it all.

The AOS marketing committee should KNOW this and price the advertising
accordingly. But if there is a corresponding loss to membership over the
rise in dues, the AOS is in real trouble.

If you were allowed to say things like this on the AOS forum without getting
booted off, maybe they would know it.



"Eric Hunt" wrote in message
...
Danny,

I've heard through the grapevine that the membership is in "free fall."

That's just the grapevine, though.

I didn't renew at $60.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

"danny" wrote in message
...
I've heard membership dropped, I don't know how much. That's not
something they would want to publish.
-danny

Al wrote:


If you were allowed to say things like this on the AOS forum without getting
booted off, maybe they would know it.




well it would just be good business practice for AOS to lurk on these
other groups/boards; it's not like there are so many active orchid
groups out there that it would take more than an hour a week to cruise
them.

thx for the responses all; i'd hate to see the AOS run itself into the
ground over something like this.

--j_a

unknown wrote:
In article ,
Steve wrote:

Are magazines still required to put their circulation numbers in that
information page near the beginning? I'm sure there's room to fudge the
numbers a little but it could give a rough idea if they still do that.

Steve



-pondering- i suppose an argument could be made that that's a not a
magazine of general circulation, but a "society newsletter" so the
requirement may not apply.


I think the requirement applies to any publication that wants to
qualify for second class mail rates, --a lot cheaper than first
class--, IIRC.

J. Del Col

Diana Kulaga wrote:
I agree with j_a. The current (July) issue of Orchids does not list
circulation numbers. I don't know whether there is a requirement for some
publications, but if there is, certainly a publication that is not offered
at news stands, etc., would be exempt.


Update to my first reply. --Any-- periodical published at least four
times a year and sent via USPS can get a Second-Class Mail Permit and
save a bundle on postage. AOS wouldn't want to be "exempt." I believe
that the statement of ownership and circulation need be published maybe
once or twice a year.

J. Del Col

Diana Kulaga wrote:
I agree with j_a. The current (July) issue of Orchids does not list
circulation numbers. I don't know whether there is a requirement for some
publications, but if there is, certainly a publication that is not offered
at news stands, etc., would be exempt.


Further update:

What used to be called Second Class Mail is now simply called
Periodical Mail.

Again. AOS wouldn't want to be exempt, unless it wants to pay first
class rates.

J. Del Col

Although I am Australian, it is my understanding that the USP requires an
annual statement of Ownership, Management and Circulation be published in
the end of year issue of each subscriber publication.

This information appears in minute print in each December issue of Orchid.

Average total distribution per issue during preceding 12 months (including
free copies) of Orchid:

2004 = 24312
2005 = 22574

So in one year the distribution has fallen by 1738 (about 7%) and this is
before the increase in price.

Cheers

John



"Steve" wrote in message
...

Are magazines still required to put their circulation numbers in that
information page near the beginning? I'm sure there's room to fudge the
numbers a little but it could give a rough idea if they still do that.

Steve

danny wrote:
I've heard membership dropped, I don't know how much. That's not
something they would want to publish.
-danny

"unknown" wrote in message
...

so any of you who still get "orchids" mag from the AOS--has there been
any mention of a change in membership numbers since they jacked up the
dues? i'm one of the ones who said "no thanks" to the nearly 30%
increase, so i haven't been getting the magazine. i was just wondering
if anyone knew what effect the rate increase was having...

TIA...


---j_a, who plans on asking for a membership for xmas, so my siblings
can split the fee.

Al wrote:
I am not trying to K-nock the AOS. I like the AOS, I have been getting that
"Bulletin" (Now called "Orchids") since the 1980s, however....

http://www.orchidweb.org/aos/orchids/osd-listing.aspx
The grower/vendor listing above on the AOS website is an interesting case to
help answer your question

They list vendors by state for the USA. When I first bought my listing for
Virginia it was $50 for *two* years. Then it jumped to $100 for *two*
years. This renewal period, for just *one* year (July 2006 through July
2007) it cost $100. So the price doubled from last time.

In the early 90s, the primary appeal of the AOS bulletin was the
advertisements. Now, the ads are almost completely irrelevant to me;
if I want a specific plant, I google it. If I want to browse multiple
nurseries, I head over to orchidmall.com. Consequently, it is the
actual content of the magazine that is more important to me now. I
find more to interest me in the Orchid Digest, so there's no point in
renewing the AOS Bulletin. I don't submit orchids for judging, so from
a purely selfish point of view, AOS membership really isn't of any
benefit to me any more. For the cost of 12 issues, I can buy a really
nice hardback book or a basket full of seedlings.

Nick

Nick,

You make a great point about how the internet has impacted this hobby in
general. 10 years ago the only way to find a plant was to look for an ad in
the magazine or telephone a grower and ask if they had something special in
their collection. Today we just get online and read the online ad
(webpage). If we find what we want we can email or order it online and
never have to talk to another person.

The other way the internet has really impacted the hobby involves how we buy
plants in general. I still love to roam around a greenhouse and pick the
best plant. Ask Al how much time I can spend just roaming around and
comparing one plant to another. But many time I can go through the Oak Hill
website and pick hundred dollars of plants that I want and with a couple of
keystrokes have them at my home in 3 days. 10 years ago we would have to
use a catalog, write a check, put a stamp on the envelope, walk to the mail
box.....ahhh technology!

I don't have any statistics but I know I haven't bought an orchid book in
many years. All the information I need is available with a quick google.
Pictures are here online. Care instructions are often more complete online.

I still subscribe to the Orchids magazine as well as IPA and ODC but am
reaching the point where I am wondering if it's worth the money. You are
correct that the $200 a year I spend to get the magazines could be spent on
a couple of great plants.

Good Growing,
Gene


wrote in message
oups.com...
Al wrote:
I am not trying to K-nock the AOS. I like the AOS, I have been getting
that
"Bulletin" (Now called "Orchids") since the 1980s, however....

http://www.orchidweb.org/aos/orchids/osd-listing.aspx
The grower/vendor listing above on the AOS website is an interesting
case to
help answer your question

They list vendors by state for the USA. When I first bought my listing
for
Virginia it was $50 for *two* years. Then it jumped to $100 for *two*
years. This renewal period, for just *one* year (July 2006 through July
2007) it cost $100. So the price doubled from last time.

In the early 90s, the primary appeal of the AOS bulletin was the
advertisements. Now, the ads are almost completely irrelevant to me;
if I want a specific plant, I google it. If I want to browse multiple
nurseries, I head over to orchidmall.com. Consequently, it is the
actual content of the magazine that is more important to me now. I
find more to interest me in the Orchid Digest, so there's no point in
renewing the AOS Bulletin. I don't submit orchids for judging, so from
a purely selfish point of view, AOS membership really isn't of any
benefit to me any more. For the cost of 12 issues, I can buy a really
nice hardback book or a basket full of seedlings.

Nick

Just wanted you all to know that I didn't hit and run upthread. I'm reading
all this with great interest.

Diana