I haven't posted in quite a while... but last fall I had a question
about a phal which had some black spots on it & poor colour on a leaf
or two. I tried cinnamon on the black spots in case it was fungal, &
at least they didn't spread...
But recently the newest leaf died & dropped off. The base of it is
brown & shrivelled in the crown. The other leaves look fine & it has a
set of flowers which it has had since before that leaf died. The roots
are also good. I am generally very careful about watering, & not
letting it sit in the crown, but this one has a sort of loose crown;
the leaves' angles vary so there are some gaps, & I wonder if the
problem was rot. I would like to know if this means the crown has died
& thus the plant is doomed, or whether it's possible, if the rest of
the plant is healthy, that from somewhere down there it would be able
to start a new leaf. It would be very disappointing if this one died,
because it is my dad's favourite, which he picked out & bought, for me
to look after for him.
Is there any hope...????

Alison

You don't say what sort of orchid it is. But in general terms, orchids are very resilient and most growers give up long before the plant does!
Why don't you sign up at http://www.orchidboard.com and post a couple of pictures?
Weng

On 25 Jun 2006 19:52:39 -0700, wrote:

I haven't posted in quite a while... but last fall I had a question
about a phal which had some black spots on it & poor colour on a leaf
or two. I tried cinnamon on the black spots in case it was fungal, &
at least they didn't spread...
But recently the newest leaf died & dropped off. The base of it is
brown & shrivelled in the crown. The other leaves look fine & it has a
set of flowers which it has had since before that leaf died. The roots
are also good. I am generally very careful about watering, & not
letting it sit in the crown, but this one has a sort of loose crown;
the leaves' angles vary so there are some gaps, & I wonder if the
problem was rot. I would like to know if this means the crown has died
& thus the plant is doomed, or whether it's possible, if the rest of
the plant is healthy, that from somewhere down there it would be able
to start a new leaf. It would be very disappointing if this one died,
because it is my dad's favourite, which he picked out & bought, for me
to look after for him.
Is there any hope...????

Alison

If it is crown rot you have a 50/50 shot at keeping the plant alive
long enough for it to keikei. I would pour a bottle of hydrogen
peroxide down thru the crown. As if you were watering the plant but
thru the crown. Then take a good look. IS there a new leaf? or just
a core of black rot? If it is rot - go buy hydrogen peroxide and
water with that always down over the crown. When exposed to air it
turns to water and o2 any way. But on the way it will kill some of
the rot. You can try your cinnamon in there as well.

Eventually - may take 18-24 months, there is a good chance it will
produce a keikei from the basal area below the bottom leaf. Watch for
it as they sometimes get tangled in the aerial roots.

Good luck
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

http://www.orchidexchange.com/Photos/stemrot.htm

Above is a link to a picture (and info about rots in general) that shows a
Phal seedling some 8 to 12 months or so after a bout of crown rot. It will
give you an idea of what to look for in the way of recuperating new growth
tissue and where to find it should the plant survive long enough to produce
a new growth.

"Susan Erickson" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jun 2006 19:52:39 -0700, wrote:

I haven't posted in quite a while... but last fall I had a question
about a phal which had some black spots on it & poor colour on a leaf
or two. I tried cinnamon on the black spots in case it was fungal, &
at least they didn't spread...
But recently the newest leaf died & dropped off. The base of it is
brown & shrivelled in the crown. The other leaves look fine & it has a
set of flowers which it has had since before that leaf died. The roots
are also good. I am generally very careful about watering, & not
letting it sit in the crown, but this one has a sort of loose crown;
the leaves' angles vary so there are some gaps, & I wonder if the
problem was rot. I would like to know if this means the crown has died
& thus the plant is doomed, or whether it's possible, if the rest of
the plant is healthy, that from somewhere down there it would be able
to start a new leaf. It would be very disappointing if this one died,
because it is my dad's favourite, which he picked out & bought, for me
to look after for him.
Is there any hope...????

Alison

If it is crown rot you have a 50/50 shot at keeping the plant alive
long enough for it to keikei. I would pour a bottle of hydrogen
peroxide down thru the crown. As if you were watering the plant but
thru the crown. Then take a good look. IS there a new leaf? or just
a core of black rot? If it is rot - go buy hydrogen peroxide and
water with that always down over the crown. When exposed to air it
turns to water and o2 any way. But on the way it will kill some of
the rot. You can try your cinnamon in there as well.

Eventually - may take 18-24 months, there is a good chance it will
produce a keikei from the basal area below the bottom leaf. Watch for
it as they sometimes get tangled in the aerial roots.

Good luck
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

Thanks for the suggestions. It's helpful to see the photos (which
finally loaded after I shut down the antivirus/ad blocker: ??). And
the writeup was really interesting too. I've been amazed to see one
orchid I got come back & bloom from near-dead; it was marked down in a
garden center, & then lost all but one leaf, & looked terrible. I've
just rescued a couple more from Walmart, one of which has no roots but
finally after lots of rooting powder, is starting to make one. I'm
amazed how tough they can be.
So, SuE, I put some peroxide on it today. Eek, did it sizzle. There
is a sort of big round cavity where the leaf was; the last stump of it
came out, & the bottom of the hole, which is black, is solid & not
squishy. But the next leaf down has started to yellow in the last
couple of days.
So, how often should I pour peroxide in this hole? This plant usually
gets watered every 4 days. For watering the roots, is it ok to put the
plant in a dish to submerge the bottom part of the pot, or to water
carefully, the roots around the edge of it? And put the peroxide in
the middle at the same time? These roots look good & I don't want them
to dry out, & am scared to put peroxide over them too! (What does
that do to the velamen? Anything?)
I like that the first thing you suggested was peroxide & not something
more toxic. I don't like, and don't have, "toxic chemicals" in the
house as a rule, although somewhere there is a little bottle of
no-damp. Is there a point at which I should consider using it, & if
so, how much? I much prefer the peroxide, pleasepleaseplease make it
work.... !

Alison

Alison,
Are you sure that this Phal _needs_ to be watered every 4 days? It depends
on what it is potted, and the size/age of the plant, and your conditions of
course, BUT that said in my experience very few Phals need to be watered as
often as that. Could it be that you are watering more frequently than it
needs it?
Joanna

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the suggestions. It's helpful to see the photos (which
finally loaded after I shut down the antivirus/ad blocker: ??). And
the writeup was really interesting too. I've been amazed to see one
orchid I got come back & bloom from near-dead; it was marked down in a
garden center, & then lost all but one leaf, & looked terrible. I've
just rescued a couple more from Walmart, one of which has no roots but
finally after lots of rooting powder, is starting to make one. I'm
amazed how tough they can be.
So, SuE, I put some peroxide on it today. Eek, did it sizzle. There
is a sort of big round cavity where the leaf was; the last stump of it
came out, & the bottom of the hole, which is black, is solid & not
squishy. But the next leaf down has started to yellow in the last
couple of days.
So, how often should I pour peroxide in this hole? This plant usually
gets watered every 4 days. For watering the roots, is it ok to put the
plant in a dish to submerge the bottom part of the pot, or to water
carefully, the roots around the edge of it? And put the peroxide in
the middle at the same time? These roots look good & I don't want them
to dry out, & am scared to put peroxide over them too! (What does
that do to the velamen? Anything?)
I like that the first thing you suggested was peroxide & not something
more toxic. I don't like, and don't have, "toxic chemicals" in the
house as a rule, although somewhere there is a little bottle of
no-damp. Is there a point at which I should consider using it, & if
so, how much? I much prefer the peroxide, pleasepleaseplease make it
work.... !

Alison

J Fortuna wrote:
Alison,
Are you sure that this Phal _needs_ to be watered every 4 days? It depends
on what it is potted, and the size/age of the plant, and your conditions of
course, BUT that said in my experience very few Phals need to be watered as
often as that. Could it be that you are watering more frequently than it
needs it?
Joanna

Hmm, well, it's in straight bark chips, in a 4.5" clay pot which is
also 4.5" deep, it's on a windowsill in bright light; the heat is on
below it in the winter, & many of the roots are at the surface so they
dry out fairly soon. My other orchids in similar pots get watered on
the same schedule & are fine. I do have one phal in a much bigger pot
which gets done once a week, & it seems happy with that. The fact that
the others of similar size/age etc. have done well, suggests that it
was I who screwed up & got water down that loose crown
What kind & how big are your pots & how often do you water? What would
you recommend?

Alison

On 28 Jun 2006 18:38:35 -0700, wrote:


Hmm, well, it's in straight bark chips, in a 4.5" clay pot which is
also 4.5" deep, it's on a windowsill in bright light; the heat is on
below it in the winter, & many of the roots are at the surface so they
dry out fairly soon. My other orchids in similar pots get watered on
the same schedule & are fine. I do have one phal in a much bigger pot
which gets done once a week, & it seems happy with that. The fact that
the others of similar size/age etc. have done well, suggests that it
was I who screwed up & got water down that loose crown
What kind & how big are your pots & how often do you water? What would
you recommend?

Alison

The peroxide turns to water as soon as it mixes with the air. So you
are watering when you use peroxide.

I agree with Joann.. Every 4 days is too often. Especially now.

NEVER let a Phal sit in a dish of water except the minute or two when
you are watering. Let the pot drain. Dump the plant out in your
hand. IS the mix on the bottom damp? DO NOT water. Try that test for
the nest 2-3 times you want to water it. First dump is the mix soft
or hard? If it is soft and you call it bark.... you need to repot.
The mix is rotten and contributing to the plant's decline.

What kind & how big are your pots & how often do you water? What would
you recommend?

Alison,
I have often found bark to be very treacherous in that it seems to me to be
dry when it is not yet. Follow Sue's advice to check if it is really dry.
Personally I find moss to be much easier to tell when to water -- when the
top surface feels as dry as a completely dry sponge is when I water Phals in
moss, and semi-hydroponics (see www.firstrays.com) is even easier to tell
when to water and it allows one to water even less frequently. Most of my
medium sized Phals at this time of year need to be watered every 10 days or
every other week, and some even less frequently. The only orchids that I
water more often than once a week are either not Phals (for example Phrag,
Milt, etc.) or they are really tiny (for example 2.5 inch pot seedling). But
your conditions being different than mine, the average watering interval
will be different. Overall I would recommend repotting your orchids into a
medium in which you can really tell when they dry out.
Joanna

wrote in message
ups.com...
J Fortuna wrote:
Alison,
Are you sure that this Phal _needs_ to be watered every 4 days? It
depends
on what it is potted, and the size/age of the plant, and your conditions
of
course, BUT that said in my experience very few Phals need to be watered
as
often as that. Could it be that you are watering more frequently than it
needs it?
Joanna

Hmm, well, it's in straight bark chips, in a 4.5" clay pot which is
also 4.5" deep, it's on a windowsill in bright light; the heat is on
below it in the winter, & many of the roots are at the surface so they
dry out fairly soon. My other orchids in similar pots get watered on
the same schedule & are fine. I do have one phal in a much bigger pot
which gets done once a week, & it seems happy with that. The fact that
the others of similar size/age etc. have done well, suggests that it
was I who screwed up & got water down that loose crown

Alison