Hello all. We have recently had a house built and so the "garden" is just soil and boulders at the moment. We're planning on getting a lawn down at the end of the summer. We're complete garden newbies as we've always lived in flats (apart from renting a house previously where we did mow the lawn). Now we have the chance to start a lawn from scratch and so would like some advice from people who know, like yourselves. Some information:

Location - 30 miles west of Aberdeen
Soil - quite a clay soil with lots of fist sized stones
Area - about 600 sq. metres (although we'll only be laying a lawn on about 200 sq. m of it to start with)

I have a plan but please advise on how good/bad you may think it is:

Step 1:

Spray all weeds/ground with glyphosate

Step 2:

Spray all weeds/ground with glyphosate again two weeks later

Step 3:

Once all weeds are dead, rotorvate ground (to make levelling easier)

Step 4:

Level and de-stone soil (and possibly add top-soil if needed)

Step 5 (if time permits):

Spray any new emerging weeds with glyphosate

Step 6:

Remove/dig in dead weeds

Step 7:

Trample/firm soil

Step 8:

Lay turf

Are there any flaws or perhaps better ways to establish a new lawn? Also, I was looking at getting a wide-toothed rake such as the Chelwood 18E or 18K for raking up the stones as these rakes have a 4cm gap between the teeth. Would you recommend any other or would one of these do the job well?

Apologies for all the questions, but I really am new to this (plenty more questions to come on growing veggies etc. but first things first!) Thanks in advance for any advice you could possibly give.

TeaBag wrote:
Hello all. We have recently had a house built and so the "garden" is
just soil and boulders at the moment. We're planning on getting a lawn
down at the end of the summer. We're complete garden newbies as we've
always lived in flats (apart from renting a house previously where we
did mow the lawn). Now we have the chance to start a lawn from scratch
and so would like some advice from people who know, like yourselves.
Some information:

Location - 30 miles west of Aberdeen
Soil - quite a clay soil with lots of fist sized stones
Area - about 600 sq. metres (although we'll only be laying a lawn on
about 200 sq. m of it to start with)

I have a plan but please advise on how good/bad you may think it is:

Step 1:

Spray all weeds/ground with glyphosate

Spraying the ground wastes spray. It has to get on the leaves to work.


Step 2:

Spray all weeds/ground with glyphosate again two weeks later

Ditto

Step 3:

Once all weeds are dead, rotorvate ground (to make levelling easier)

Step 4:

Level and de-stone soil (and possibly add top-soil if needed)

Step 5 (if time permits):

Spray any new emerging weeds with glyphosate

Step 6:

Remove/dig in dead weeds

Step 7:

Trample/firm soil

Step 8:

Lay turf

Are there any flaws or perhaps better ways to establish a new lawn?
Also, I was looking at getting a wide-toothed rake such as the
Chelwood 18E or 18K for raking up the stones as these rakes have a
4cm gap between the teeth. Would you recommend any other or would one
of these do the job well?

A large landscapers rake helps a lot in getting it level. (3-4 feet wide - you
can rent one) A roller also helps - it makes the high/low spots really obvious.
Getting the soil level and smooth is really important for a smooth lawn.

Thanks Bob. I agree, spraying the ground generally would be a waste of spray. However, when I say I'll be spraying the ground, I mean the odd patch in between the lawn of weeds; the whole area is green with weeds. Spraying the ground in between ensures that I haven't missed any small emerging ones that are hard to spot.

Thanks for the tip on renting a rake; should save me a bit of money. And the roller will save alot of time, too.

On May 1, 4:55*pm, TeaBag wrote:
Hello all. We have recently had a house built and so the "garden" is
just soil and boulders at the moment. We're planning on getting a lawn
down at the end of the summer. We're complete garden newbies as we've
always lived in flats (apart from renting a house previously where we
did mow the lawn). Now we have the chance to start a lawn from scratch
and so would like some advice from people who know, like yourselves.
Some information:

Location - 30 miles west of Aberdeen
Soil - quite a clay soil with lots of fist sized stones
Area - about 600 sq. metres (although we'll only be laying a lawn on
about 200 sq. m of it to start with)

I have a plan but please advise on how good/bad you may think it is:

Step 1:

Spray all weeds/ground with glyphosate


As Bob said, no need to spray bare ground. If you miss
some tiny weeds, you can go back and get them in the
second pass.




Step 2:

Spray all weeds/ground with glyphosate again two weeks later

Just spray what's still alive. Also, when you buy the glyphosate
look for the concentrated products, like 48%. It's a lot more
cost effective. I'd mix it to about 5%.





Step 3:

Once all weeds are dead, rotorvate ground (to make levelling easier)

I'd probably mow it first. And if there is a lot of weed debris,
maybe rake out most of it before tilling.

Also, how out of level is it? If there are just some areas that
need to be graded, do you really need to churn up the whole
thing?





Step 4:

Level and de-stone soil (and possibly add top-soil if needed)

Step 5 (if time permits):

Spray any new emerging weeds with glyphosate

Step 6:

Remove/dig in dead weeds

I'd forget about that. After all of the above, there shouldn't
be anything worth worrying about.




Step 7:

Trample/firm soil

That probably means roll lightly.




Step 8:

Lay turf

Are there any flaws or perhaps better ways to establish a new lawn?

The other alternative is to seed. It's funny. I live here in NJ,
and I seeded my lawn years ago. Right now it's nice and green,
actively growing. A friend bought a $1mil house in a sub-division
of recently built houses. The builder used sod. His lawn is barely
growing, doesn't look anywhere as good as mine. It didn't look as
good over winter either. Mine stayed a lot greener for more of the
winter. We both apply similar amounts of fertilizer etc. So, clearly
it's the variety of grass that's the difference. You would think
that
spring green-up, winter color, etc would be important to a sod
supplier,
but I guess not.... If you buy the seed yourself, you can choose the
exact grass you want. There are online references that show test
results for different grasses, rating color, texture, disease
resistance,
spring green-up, etc.

My point is that for all the work and expense you're going to go
through,
I'd spend some time researching the sod or seed you're going
to use. Getting a real nice grass may not cost anymore than a
crappy one and even if it does, it's not much more.


Also, I was looking at getting a wide-toothed rake such as the Chelwood
18E or 18K for raking up the stones as these rakes have a 4cm gap
between the teeth. Would you recommend any other or would one of these
do the job well?

No experience with those UK rakes.




Apologies for all the questions, but I really am new to this (plenty
more questions to come on growing veggies etc. but first things first!)
Thanks in advance for any advice you could possibly give.

--
TeaBag

With veggies, first thing is to find out what animals there are
that will eat them. Around here, NJ, the deer are so bad that without
a fence it's hopeless.

TeaBag wrote:
....
Apologies for all the questions, but I really am new to this (plenty
more questions to come on growing veggies etc. but first things first!)
Thanks in advance for any advice you could possibly give.

it can be overwhelming when considering all
the possible options... but...

i would really rethink this. putting a lot
of money into establishing a grass lawn and
putting down sod only later to go over it and
put in gardens is a large waste of money and
effort (along with time wasted).

instead work on observing your property and
how it drains and how the light goes. figure
out if you'll need to bring in more topsoil
for certain areas and where you might want
ponds or other features. if some areas are
not drained well you might want to use those
as natural water catches or even ponds, if
there are springs, seeps, etc. or you may
want to install drainage or shape the ground
to direct water flows. this kind of planning
is much better done before you do a lot of
other work on the lawn as then you can bring
in trucks of topsoil or other materials without
damaging other things (saves much work later).

so overall, sitting down with someone who
does garden designs would really help a lot and
likely keep you from wasting a lot of money on
sod, weed killers and time spent killing weeds
that you may later just go over with a garden
plot, pathway, pond, patio, etc. anyways.

also, nice to include in garden plans, are
things like irrigation plumbing for hose hook
ups and even electrical runs if you are going
to be doing a gazebo or other garden feature
that might need power (water pumps, lights,
refrig, etc.).

where i am at none of this sort of thing was
done before putting in gardens, it makes any
projects three to five times the work because
i have to go around and bring in materials a
wheelbarrow at a time or the soil is so ill
suited i can't even grow certain crops, or
the drainage is poor so i have to contend with
flooding, etc.

oh and having a way left that a truck can
get in is very nice to have later. you
never know if someone may come up with a free
load of bricks or ... it's nice to not have
to haul it in a wheelbarrow or bucket at time.

do yourself big favors and take the time now
to figure it out before wasting the time and
money on sod and weed killers.

you can mow the weeds on a regular basis and
that will be good enough until you know more
about what else you'll be doing. by then you
may have a perfectly good looking green area
that requires little additonal care other than
regular mowing because it's been selected from
the weeds and grasses that are already in your
area that are suited for the climate and soil.

once you know where you really do want garden
plots or actual grassy areas then you can
concentrate on those (hopefully much smaller
areas) for getting rid of the rocks, leveling,
weed killing and sodding/seeding in again.

if you take the time and hit the library there
are many books available along with many things
online to help with various topics. still i
think it helps to talk to someone who does garden
design for a living as then you can likely avoid
a lot of future problems and you may discover
during the conversations that you and your
partner/family has different ideas about what
to do, so it's good to figure that out beforehand
as i really dislike getting a project going or
done only to find someone later coming in and
digging it back up again or mowing it down or...


songbird

On May 2, 1:33*pm, songbird wrote:
TeaBag wrote:

...

Apologies for all the questions, but I really am new to this (plenty
more questions to come on growing veggies etc. but first things first!)
Thanks in advance for any advice you could possibly give.

* it can be overwhelming when considering all
the possible options... *but...

* i would really rethink this. *putting a lot
of money into establishing a grass lawn and
putting down sod only later to go over it and
put in gardens is a large waste of money and
effort (along with time wasted).


He didn't say he was doing that. Only that he's putting
in a new lawn, apparently starting the work at the end of
summer.

wrote:
songbird wrote:
TeaBag wrote:

...

Apologies for all the questions, but I really am new to this (plenty
more questions to come on growing veggies etc. but first things first!)
Thanks in advance for any advice you could possibly give.

Â* it can be overwhelming when considering all
the possible options... Â*but...

Â* i would really rethink this. Â*putting a lot
of money into establishing a grass lawn and
putting down sod only later to go over it and
put in gardens is a large waste of money and
effort (along with time wasted).


He didn't say he was doing that. Only that he's putting
in a new lawn, apparently starting the work at the end of
summer.

read the above again...

"more questions to come on growing veggies, etc."


songbird

Thanks all. At this moment in time the plan is only for a lawn. We have divided the land at the back of the house into three sections; 50% total area, 25% and 25%. The 50% area will be lawn. That is our first priority so that we have somewhere for our little one to play, have a barbeque and all that usual stuff that families do in the garden. Once that's complete, the other half (or two quarters) will be for chickens and raised beds, both areas about the same size.

One thing at a time, though. I see a garden as a life-long work in progress. I appreciate being given ideas and will store them for a later date, but for now I just need to make sure that I'm going about things the right way to ensure a successful lawn.

Thanks again for helping me out with your responses.

On May 2, 11:45*pm, songbird wrote:
wrote:
songbird wrote:
TeaBag wrote:

...

Apologies for all the questions, but I really am new to this (plenty
more questions to come on growing veggies etc. but first things first!)
Thanks in advance for any advice you could possibly give.

* it can be overwhelming when considering all
the possible options... *but...

* i would really rethink this. *putting a lot
of money into establishing a grass lawn and
putting down sod only later to go over it and
put in gardens is a large waste of money and
effort (along with time wasted).

He didn't say he was doing that. *Only that he's putting
in a new lawn, apparently starting the work at the end of
summer.

* read the above again...

* "more questions to come on growing veggies, etc."

* songbird- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Maybe you should read it again:

"Area - about 600 sq. metres (although we'll only be laying a lawn on
about 200 sq. m of it to start with) "

You'd have to be incredibly stupid to lay a lawn on the
whole thing only to rip it up to plant a garden in part of it
later.

TeaBag wrote:
Thanks all. At this moment in time the plan is only for a lawn. We
have divided the land at the back of the house into three sections;
50% total area, 25% and 25%. The 50% area will be lawn. That is our
first priority so that we have somewhere for our little one to play,
have a barbeque and all that usual stuff that families do in the
garden. Once that's complete, the other half (or two quarters) will
be for chickens and raised beds, both areas about the same size.

One thing at a time, though. I see a garden as a life-long work in
progress. I appreciate being given ideas and will store them for a
later date, but for now I just need to make sure that I'm going about
things the right way to ensure a successful lawn.

Thanks again for helping me out with your responses.

Just an additional thought. I'd highly recommend that you keep undeveloped areas
weeded if you plan to grow things there and would prefer not to have weeds. If
you let weeds grow, and go to seed, they will continue to re-appear for years to
come. Chickens may take care of many of the weeds, but other garden uses would
benefit from being kept clear of weeds to lessen weeding in them when they
become gardens. Mulch can be very helpful in this effort.

Thanks Bob. That sounds like some good advice. I think the weed situation could be an on-going battle as there's quite a bit of untouched, natural land nearby which has alot of vegetation.

I've read that once a lawn is established, it's much harder for weeds to take hold. Is that right? It would make sense as they'd have to penetrate the grass with their dense roots.

TeaBag wrote:
Bob F;982308 Wrote:
Just an additional thought. I'd highly recommend that you keep
undeveloped areas
weeded if you plan to grow things there and would prefer not to have
weeds. If
you let weeds grow, and go to seed, they will continue to re-appear
for years to
come. Chickens may take care of many of the weeds, but other garden
uses would
benefit from being kept clear of weeds to lessen weeding in them when
they
become gardens. Mulch can be very helpful in this effort.

Thanks Bob. That sounds like some good advice. I think the weed
situation could be an on-going battle as there's quite a bit of
untouched, natural land nearby which has alot of vegetation.

I've read that once a lawn is established, it's much harder for weeds
to take hold. Is that right? It would make sense as they'd have to
penetrate the grass with their dense roots.

Harder, but they still show up. I just walk around my lawn with a hand sprayer
of weed-b-gon once in a while, and spritz the few that do show up. Again,
getting them before they go to seed makes a huge difference.

Thanks again, Bob. The weeds that I've sprayed have gone yellow and limp now. I'm assuming that they;re now dead and that they can now be removed. Should I remove them all or just dig them in? Or perhaps just remove the bigger ones?

TeaBag wrote:
Bob F;982374 Wrote:
Harder, but they still show up. I just walk around my lawn with a
hand sprayer
of weed-b-gon once in a while, and spritz the few that do show up.
Again,
getting them before they go to seed makes a huge difference.

Thanks again, Bob. The weeds that I've sprayed have gone yellow and
limp now. I'm assuming that they;re now dead and that they can now be
removed. Should I remove them all or just dig them in? Or perhaps just
remove the bigger ones?

Don't rush it. Give the chemical time to complete the job. Then do whatever
seems appropriate. Turning them under shouldn't be a problem. If you are not
going to plant till fall, you need to think of what happens until then, because
without some preventative, the weeds will come back all summer. If there are
seed on the dying weeds, removing them should help a lot, but you will still
need to mulch the area to slow more weeds from popping up, and quickly pull
those that do.

You could plant lawn now if you can afford watering it, depending on your
climate. If you still have significant rains, like I do in Seattle, it might do
well.

On May 18, 11:00*am, "Bob F" wrote:
TeaBag wrote:
Bob F;982374 Wrote:
Harder, but they still show up. I just walk around my lawn with a
hand sprayer
of weed-b-gon once in a while, and spritz the few that do show up.
Again,
getting them before they go to seed makes a huge difference.

Thanks again, Bob. The weeds that I've sprayed have gone yellow and
limp now. I'm assuming that they;re now dead and that they can now be
removed. Should I remove them all or just dig them in? Or perhaps just
remove the bigger ones?

Don't rush it. Give the chemical time to complete the job. Then do whatever
seems appropriate. Turning them under shouldn't be a problem. If you are not
going to plant till fall, you need to think of what happens until then, because
without some preventative, the weeds will come back all summer. If there are
seed on the dying weeds, removing them should help a lot, but you will still
need to mulch the area to slow more weeds from popping up, and quickly pull
those that do.

You could plant lawn now if you can afford watering it, depending on your
climate. If you still have significant rains, like I do in Seattle, it might do
well.

Do we even know what the plan is at this point? He
first said he was planning on establishing a new lawn at
the end of summer. So, why is he even killing stuff now
and talking about possibly tilling weeds in? Fall is the
best time to establish a lawn and if he's not going to do
that until then, why is he killing stuff now? I'd just mow
until late Aug, then start the process with killing the
existing vegetation.