It says to water twice daily to keep the top 1cm of soil damp until all
seedlings are up, then water once or twice daily until the lawn is fully
established (6-8 weeks). I am sure I kept up my watering for the
recommended time, but my dissapointment was obvious. This is why I have a
different feeling on this topic now.

For fall, it says temps best when consistently below 26C (actually late
sumer in many areas), & seeding should be completed 6-8 weeks BEFORE temps
are expected to fall below 5C. It stated the seeding itself takes 6-8
weeks so, in fall, start 12-16 weeks before a 5C is expected (" before
temperatures are expected to fall below 5C"); not consistently below 5C.
Thats 3, up to 4 months. It hasn't been 3 to 4 days yet here.

Just a note, your local governement environmental agencies keep records of
all precipitation and temps for the last (....150 years or so), and can be
bought, or researched in several different package forms from their offices.
Or it may be available to the majority, possibly online, possibly by zone.



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On May 9, 2:58 pm, "bent" wrote:
You're right, I may need to water more frequently than I do, i.e. more than
twice daily. However I stand by everything I said . Here in Toronto, it
wasn't until the last day or two that the temperature did not drop down
into low single digits consistently for nights (great part of all of our 24
hour periods). That has to be balanced (equally?) with the period above
around 25C, a very small number so far.

Scotts Turfbuilder Kentucky Bluegrass bag says:

"Seed germinates best when temperatures are consistently 15 to 26C
(60-80F)."
"Seed will not germinate well once temperatures are consistently above 26C."

BUT it does also say

Early spring, when temps are 5-21C (40-70F) is the ideal time to seed."



Here's what Scott's website has to say on the subject:

http://lawncare.scotts.com/index.cfm...2fe1bb9dbe9dff

"basics: renovation and repair
How to Seed Bare Spots And Thin Areas
Summer heat and drought usually cause thin brown spots in the lawn.
Luckily, fall is the best time to seed and it's EASY! Follow the
simple steps below and you'll have a thick, green lawn:"

So, at the very least, Scotts is giving conflicting advice. And
Scotts is hardly the only authority on the subject. Do a Google
search of fall seeding and you will find lots of hits, many of them
from state agricultural extension services, which have no commercial
interest or axe to grind, that say Fall is the best time. For
example, here's one from Minnesota, which is a fairly northern
climate, approaching your own:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/info-u/plants/BG526.html

"While spring lawn seeding is a possibility, mid-August to mid-
September seeding is usually more successful."


I'm sure you can find some hits tha say Spring is best, but if you
look at the agricultural services and turf experts, the overwhelming
consensus is Fall is the best time, followed by Spring.

Now, I may have misunderstood your earlier comment:

"I am waiting a little longer still before I seed. I think it will be
done
in 4 to 6 weeks, but doesn't matter when you start, the end is the
end"

I took this to mean that you are going to seed in 4-6 weeks. If you
mean you're going to seed sometime real soon and the grass will be up
by that time, then what you're proposing makes more sense. But, I
would get the seed down immediately.



You may think you have won, but I reject your reality and substitute my own.
But I'm in a diff place (Toronto), I am looking at the temps here, and my
past experience. I think temps will be consistently too high soon.

Here's the problem with your idea of where your past problems with
poor results were. You think it's because you put the seed down too
early. In fact, the seed should have still germinated, it would just
have taken longer. Grass seed isn't like setting out tomato plants,
where if it's too cold, they die. In fact, there are some who believe
that seeding in winter is effective, and do it that way, because the
seed will work into the soil a bit and germinate when it warms up.

As I said earlier, I'd wager that your real problem with poor
germination is elsewhere. I didn;t see any response about how you
seeded, ie, did you get good soil/seed contact via a slice seeder or
other method, or did you just throw some seed around. Getting good
soil contact can make a huge difference in germination rates.




I think
it will take a month, start to finish, before all watering can stop.

So, you plan to seed sometime in the coming weeks, then water for
just a month? Now that is a prescription for disaster. How do you
expect seedlings to survive in July/August? The watering should be
backed off gradually. And going into summer, with new seedlings, I
would expect to water continuously every 2-3 days or so in hot
weather, if it hasn't rained.

wrote

"I am waiting a little longer still before I seed. I think it will be
done
in 4 to 6 weeks, but doesn't matter when you start, the end is the
end"

I took this to mean that you are going to seed in 4-6 weeks. If you
mean you're going to seed sometime real soon and the grass will be up
by that time, then what you're proposing makes more sense. But, I
would get the seed down immediately.

As I said earlier, I'd wager that your real problem with poor
germination is elsewhere. I didn;t see any response about how you
seeded, ie, did you get good soil/seed contact via a slice seeder or
other method, or did you just throw some seed around. Getting good
soil contact can make a huge difference in germination rates.

So, you plan to seed sometime in the coming weeks, then water for
just a month? Now that is a prescription for disaster. How do you
expect seedlings to survive in July/August? The watering should be
backed off gradually. And going into summer, with new seedlings, I
would expect to water continuously every 2-3 days or so in hot
weather, if it hasn't rained.


May start today. Not really sure how long it will take, but if it takes
longer than 6 weeks, that is a very narrow window, but thats what I'm
pointing out.

This is interesting, as I suspected, I wonder if there is deception for
profit involved. Just pointing out what is working for me, in Toronto.
Oops, not really sure if it works yet.

I break up the surface of the existing lawn soil, and spread that around
evenly, loosened. Depending on how deep or quality that area is, I may add
Top Soil (I have used different soils, and suspect using "Garden Soil" was
part of my problem - like to know more about what should-shouldn't use &
why. I think peat and moisture materials are good in the soil for
germination, but soon after there is nothing for roots to live in) and
spread it around evenly. Then I'd sprinkle seeds with a handheld broadcast
spreader. Then I'd hand and/or shovel bomb some more new "Top Soil" ("Top
Soil is the name of the newest bags I'm trying.), and maybe spread it
around. May do a little patting, with end of 8" garden rake. What I am
going for is a little layer below, and a little layer above. I try to water
lightly to not expose the seeds, and may add soil after. I rely that the
watering compacts the mix a bit, but can't say I've tamped it down; covered
it up in a tight packing. If it were obvious a large number of seeds were
sitting right on the surface of the soil I'd add more soil. I don't have a
roller handy, and that'd probly trek everything everywhere. However I could
make a tamping plate if I need some compaction.

If I was gonna stop watering, obviously (to me) all the grass that was gonna
grow would be showing. I'd keep an eye on it, and make sure it wouldn't
die, which in turn would show up any new grass if it did decide to come up,
which I would also take care of. In Scotts Kentucky BG common #1, I am not
sure if anything could just start coming up after that first period, i.e.
after the first 5 weeks, or even later in the season, or another season(s).



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On May 10, 11:46 am, "bent" wrote:
wrote





"I am waiting a little longer still before I seed. I think it will be
done
in 4 to 6 weeks, but doesn't matter when you start, the end is the
end"
I took this to mean that you are going to seed in 4-6 weeks. If you
mean you're going to seed sometime real soon and the grass will be up
by that time, then what you're proposing makes more sense. But, I
would get the seed down immediately.
As I said earlier, I'd wager that your real problem with poor
germination is elsewhere. I didn;t see any response about how you
seeded, ie, did you get good soil/seed contact via a slice seeder or
other method, or did you just throw some seed around. Getting good
soil contact can make a huge difference in germination rates.
So, you plan to seed sometime in the coming weeks, then water for
just a month? Now that is a prescription for disaster. How do you
expect seedlings to survive in July/August? The watering should be
backed off gradually. And going into summer, with new seedlings, I
would expect to water continuously every 2-3 days or so in hot
weather, if it hasn't rained.

May start today. Not really sure how long it will take, but if it takes
longer than 6 weeks, that is a very narrow window, but thats what I'm
pointing out.


Wow, how big of an area are you doing that it could take so long?



This is interesting, as I suspected, I wonder if there is deception for
profit involved. Just pointing out what is working for me, in Toronto.
Oops, not really sure if it works yet.

I break up the surface of the existing lawn soil, and spread that around
evenly, loosened. Depending on how deep or quality that area is, I may add
Top Soil (I have used different soils, and suspect using "Garden Soil" was
part of my problem - like to know more about what should-shouldn't use &
why. I think peat and moisture materials are good in the soil for
germination, but soon after there is nothing for roots to live in) and
spread it around evenly. Then I'd sprinkle seeds with a handheld broadcast
spreader. Then I'd hand and/or shovel bomb some more new "Top Soil" ("Top
Soil is the name of the newest bags I'm trying.), and maybe spread it
around. May do a little patting, with end of 8" garden rake. What I am
going for is a little layer below, and a little layer above. I try to water
lightly to not expose the seeds, and may add soil after. I rely that the
watering compacts the mix a bit, but can't say I've tamped it down; covered
it up in a tight packing. If it were obvious a large number of seeds were
sitting right on the surface of the soil I'd add more soil. I don't have a
roller handy, and that'd probly trek everything everywhere. However I could
make a tamping plate if I need some compaction.

Instead of all that work, why not just mow it short (if needed), and
rent a slice seeder? You can rent one for around $50 for a half day,
$80/day here. Might want to core aerate it first, which can be rented
for similar amount. You can easily do 1/2 acre or an acre in a day,
smaller lawn in 1/2 day, instead of killing yourself. And the seed
will be in the soil at the right depth, where you will get excellent
germination.