Recently we planted around 15 4" annuals around our yard. Two or three
of them are not growing as well as the others. Is there some kind of
fertilizer you would recommend that we can feed them to help their
growth? We live in Western Washington state. Thanks.

tenplay said:

Recently we planted around 15 4" annuals around our yard. Two or three
of them are not growing as well as the others. Is there some kind of
fertilizer you would recommend that we can feed them to help their
growth? We live in Western Washington state. Thanks.

I like Osmocote (or a similar product) for annual bedding plants.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

Osmocote (or the generic equivilent) works very well before you plant them,
after planting, Miracle Grow works very well, my only complaint with that
is that you have to reapply about every other week, because its basically a
liquid fertilizer.

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:11:26 GMT, me wrote:

Osmocote (or the generic equivilent) works very well before you plant them,
after planting, Miracle Grow works very well, my only complaint with that
is that you have to reapply about every other week, because its basically a
liquid fertilizer.

Hmmm...that seems VERY frequent.

The "purists" (not meant derogatorily) hold that Miracle Gro works on
the *plants*, whereas "organic" fertilizers work on the *soil*. Idea
being that when the soil is healthy, plants will do better than when
they get an instant shot of fertilizer like Miracle Gro.

Not taking a position either way, as I'd have to grow stuff in two
identical plots to have a control, required to verify the opposing (or
complementary?) procedures scientifically.

Aspasia wrote in
:

Hmmm...that seems VERY frequent.

The "purists" (not meant derogatorily) hold that Miracle Gro works on
the *plants*, whereas "organic" fertilizers work on the *soil*. Idea
being that when the soil is healthy, plants will do better than when
they get an instant shot of fertilizer like Miracle Gro.

Not taking a position either way, as I'd have to grow stuff in two
identical plots to have a control, required to verify the opposing (or
complementary?) procedures scientifically.

Absolutely, its very fequent. Miracle grow is a foliar feeder, and doesn't
last long in the soil at all. There is no substitute for good healthy
soil, its absolutely essential.

however that said, my gathering of the meaning of the post is that all they
were looking for was a quick solution. Compost tea and some plant tone
would most likely be a better long term solution.

me wrote:
Aspasia wrote in
:

Hmmm...that seems VERY frequent.

The "purists" (not meant derogatorily) hold that Miracle Gro
works on the *plants*, whereas "organic" fertilizers work on the
*soil*. Idea being that when the soil is healthy, plants will do
better than when they get an instant shot of fertilizer like
Miracle Gro.

Not taking a position either way, as I'd have to grow stuff in two
identical plots to have a control, required to verify the
opposing (or complementary?) procedures scientifically.

Absolutely, its very fequent. Miracle grow is a foliar feeder, and
doesn't last long in the soil at all. There is no substitute for
good healthy soil, its absolutely essential.

however that said, my gathering of the meaning of the post is that
all they were looking for was a quick solution. Compost tea and
some plant tone would most likely be a better long term solution.

Compost tea is hogwash. Just plain old compost would be much better.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8
Sunset Zone 5

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 21:21:41 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

Compost tea is hogwash. Just plain old compost would be much better.


So Travis another one of your silly one liners....

You and Paggers are welcome to your silly opinions, bsed on no
experience....

For those with open minds...

Part I:

The following is a selection of recent science
papers and on-farm test results on compost teas,
composts, soil microbial diversity, biorationals,
and disease-suppressive composts posted
to the Compost Tea List on Yahoo!Groups.


Date: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:59 pm
Subject: Compost: A review of the composting process,
biocontrol mechanisms, & suppression of turfgrass disease
http://www.springerlink.com/app/home...lts,1:100229,1
Date: Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:36 pm
Subject: Phytopathology journal article on compost tea,
November 2004
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/message/10013

Date: Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:42 pm
Subject: Plant Disease journal article on compost teas,
August 2003
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/message/10014

Date: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:06 pm
Subject: Phytopathology88:compost water extracts+induced
resistance by Zhang & Hoitink
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/message/10024

Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:24 pm
Subject: Soil microbial diversity in German-English journal
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/message/10130

Date: Thu Jan 6, 2005 12:56 pm
Subject: Tomato foliar disease control using OMRI-approved
materials
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/message/11127

Date: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:34 pm
Subject: A new literature review on compost teas for
disease suppression
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/message/11231


Part II:

The following excerpts are from the compost
tea resource list I use to supplement my
workshops and publications in my ATTRA work:


2.0 Literature Reviews

a.

Scheuerell, Steve, and Walter Mahaffee. 2002. Compost tea:
Principles and prospects for plant disease control (Literature
review). Compost Science & Utilization. Vol. 10, No. 4.
(Autumn) p. 313 - 338.

This is the literature review published in Compost
Science & Utilization by Steve Scheuerell and Walter
Mahaffee of Oregon State University. It was part of
Scheuerell's PhD disseration on compost teas. This is
the most thorough and extensive literature review on
compost teas published to date.

Compost Science & Utilization is a journal published by
JG Press, Inc., which also publishes BioCycle, the trade
magazine of the composting industry.

Archived articles in JG Press publications are available
online for 3 each.

The JG Press, Inc. Archives
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jgpress/

Compost Science & Utilization. Vol. 10, No. 4. (Autumn)
http://www.jgpress.com/CSUContents/2002/Autumn2002.html


b.

Organic Teas from Composts and Manures
Richard Merrill, OFRF Grant Report 97–40
http://www.ofrf.org/publications/Gra...ports/97.40.10
..Merrill.Fall97.IB9.pdf

An Organic Farming Research Foundation report. This is the
full OFRF report; a 51-page PDF download, with 88 literature
references in the bibliography, "Selected References for
Organic Tea Extract Studies."

This OFRF research report is based on work at Cabrillo
Community College.

It has noteworthy background information on compost teas and
the composting process. It provides an interesting explanation
of the Four Paths of Organic Decay.

Of special interest, is the prototype homemade aerobic compost
tea extractor, based on a double barrel design.


c.

Litterick, A.M., L. Harrier, P. Wallace, C. A. Watson, M. Wood.
2004. The Role of Uncomposted Materials, Composts, Manures,
and Compost Extracts in Reducing Pest and Disease Incidence
and Severity in Sustainable Temperate Agricultural and
Horticultural Crop Production — A Review.
Critical Reviews in Plant Sciences. Volume 23, Number 6
(November-December).
p. 453 - 479.

This is a new (November-December 2004) literature review
published in Critical Reviews in Plant Sciences by a research
group in Scotland and England. The Taylor & Francis Group,
publisher of Critical Reviews in Plant Sciences, provides
access to the abstract for free on its Web site. Talk to
your local librarian for assistance in obtaining the full
27-page literature review in PDF.

Abstract in Critical Reviews in Plant Sciences
1.
http://journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/li...l4cyddht5kbej9

2.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/07352680490886815



6.0 On-Farm Research into Compost Teas

a.

Evaluating the Benefits of CompostTeas to the Small Market
Grower
Minnesota Greenbook 2003
http://www.mda.state.mn.us/esap/gree...fruitsveg1.pdf

Evaluating the Benefits of CompostTeas to the Small Market
Grower
Minnesota Greenbook 2002
http://www.mda.state.mn.us/esap/gree.../fv3bailey.pdf

Evaluating the Benefits of CompostTeas to the Small Market
Grower
Minnesota Greenbook 2001
http://www.mda.state.mn.us/esap/gree...1/2001gb30.pdf

These PDF papers are 4-6 pages each. They summarize on-farm
research into compost teas, funded by the Energy and
Sustainable Agriculture Program at the Minnesota Department
of Agriculture. They provide insight into compost tea
preparation, microbial analysis, and compost tea use on
the farm, with a summary of results.


b.

Compost Tea Brewer Test Results
North Country Organics
www.norganics.com/tests.html
www.norganics.com/Test7-17.pdf

Paul Sachs at North Country Organics, author of Edaphos:
Dynamics of a Natural Soil System and Handbook of Successful
Ecological Lawn Care, conducted a series of compost tea
brewing trials. This Web site hosts the SFI microbial
analysis reports from these trials. The parameters for
each batch of compost tea are noted with each lab report.
The parameters included volume of tea, brewing time, aeration
time, water temperature, and the use of three compost tea
additives known as Fungal Booster, Bacterial Booster,
and Mineral Booster.


c.

EPM Compost Tea Test Results from SFI
www.composttea.com/test_results.htm

Bruce Elliott at EPM, Inc. in Cottage Grove, Oregon,
manufactures the Earth Tea Brewer. This Web site hosts
SFI microbial analysis reports for compost teas brewed
with EPM's 22-, 100-, and 500-gallon Earth Tea Brewers.


Part III:

Also see:


1.

Compost Teas: Microbial Hygiene and Quality in Relation
to Method of Preparation
W. Brinton, P. Storms, et al
Biodymamics | Summer 2004 | Vol. 2: 36-45.
http://www.woodsend.org/pdf-files/compost-tea-BD04R.pdf


2.

Ted Peterson at EW/SOE can provide reports from completed
projects submitted to municipalities as a part of its
research and demonstration on the benefits and uses of
composts and compost teas. Topical reports are available
on:

* Wastewater industry/Biosolids composting
* Park turf water conservation/Park management without chemicals
* Compost tea/Micorrhiza turf tests

Contact:

Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth
http://www.earth-wise.com

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +

Tom Jaszewski wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 21:21:41 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

Compost tea is hogwash. Just plain old compost would be much
better.


So Travis another one of your silly one liners....

You and Paggers are welcome to your silly opinions, bsed on no
experience....

For those with open minds...

Just post the peer reviewed publications not all those yahoo group
citations.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8
Sunset Zone 5

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 01:32:02 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

Tom Jaszewski wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 21:21:41 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

Compost tea is hogwash. Just plain old compost would be much
better.


So Travis another one of your silly one liners....

You and Paggers are welcome to your silly opinions, bsed on no
experience....

For those with open minds...

Just post the peer reviewed publications not all those yahoo group
citations.


Travis,

I'm really not much intersted in convincing you of anything. Those
links lead to data. If you're not willing to use the yahoo group links
to the studies I could give a shit...

Fact is compost tea is a fantastic soil development tool. Lots of real
world sustainable growers and farmers are using CT with great success.
If those of us who garden and farm for a living waited for peer review
we would have long ago lost our jobs and farms.

Save your one liners for the amateurs....

In article , X-No-Archive: yes
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 01:32:02 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

Tom Jaszewski wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 21:21:41 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

Compost tea is hogwash. Just plain old compost would be much
better.


So Travis another one of your silly one liners....

You and Paggers are welcome to your silly opinions, bsed on no
experience....

For those with open minds...

Just post the peer reviewed publications not all those yahoo group
citations.


Travis,

I'm really not much intersted in convincing you of anything. Those
links lead to data. If you're not willing to use the yahoo group links
to the studies I could give a shit...

Fact is

You don't deal with facts. You deal with vendor folklore, sales pitches
which you may or may not personally believe but which originate from
flimflam artists, & range from totally untrue assertions to exaggerations
of smaller truths. In their elaborated forms promulgated by vendors of
compost tea products, there is at most one "fact" for ever fifty false
claims, & that one fact is misrepresented in a context that renders it no
longer factual.

A "fact" would be something like Travis's "Just plain old compost would be
much better." Even a best-case exaggerated scenario for compost tea should
be willing to acknowledge THAT as a fact.

The request for peer-reviewed science is not one that would **** off
vendors off so much if the science supported the claims. Vendors are
wildly enamored of "findings" in non-peer-reviewed & irreproducible
studies. The better the science, the more the vendors assert that science
isn't required.

compost tea is a fantastic soil development tool.

Precisely as watering is a fantastic soil development "tool." Watering the
garden has the exact same influence on microorganism populations as does
C.T. -- not more, not less. When vendors are confronted with this fact,
they add additional alleged values, like the C.T. helps control diseases.
But as Horticulturist Dr Chalker-Scott of the University of Washington,
"In the peer-reviewed literature...field-tested compost tea reported no
difference in disease control between compost tea & water." The two major
claims for C.T.'s "soil development" tend to be lowering of pathogens
maximizing of healthful microorganisms, but insofar as those mayh be
"facts" they are not factuallyh improvements over regular watering, & any
time spent manufacturing tea, & any money wasted on the expensive products
associated with making the tea, is time & money wasted since just keeping
things watered has the exact same value for maximizing microorganisms &
minimizing pathogens.

The only thing C.T. has that plain water does not have are a few tepid
nutrients beneficial sure but vastly inferior to actual compost, indeed
inferior to every other known method of sustaining nutrients in the
garden.

Lots of real
world sustainable growers and farmers are using CT with great success.
If those of us who garden and farm for a living waited for peer review
we would have long ago lost our jobs and farms.

And there you go asserting that science isn't required. What you imagine
here is an utter falsehood. Those who make a living farming keep abreast
of the scientific data in order to improve their methods. Only in the
world of charlatanry are wild claims made for products that have little to
no proven added value. The correct question is does it have ADDED value.
C.T. has no added value. That isn't to say it does nothing whatsoever, but
it does nothing worth expending time & money to achieve since as a
fertilizer it is inferior to every other method & for soil maintenance it
is only equal to watering.

Save your one liners for the amateurs....

Save your "professional" flimflam for the marks. As I said befo

I still remember when Magic Light Box Glasses were being sold all over the
city. If you put the light box on your head & adjusted the flashing lights
for specific colors, you could cure any disease, restore perfect vision, &
become increasingly intelligent. But of course that New Age tinfoil hat
style flimflam didn't simultaneously benefit a facilitating industry, the
way the Compost Tea fad is facilitated by nurseries. *This one I'm afraid
will be ripping people off for a long time to come.

-paggers
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson

There is never any point in a discussion with you when you've dug
yourself in.

Consider reading the introductory page of the last "Compost Science
and Utilization.

Tom Jaszewski wrote:
There is never any point in a discussion with you when you've dug
yourself in.

Consider reading the introductory page of the last "Compost Science
and Utilization.

Where exactly are the peer reviewed articles?

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8
Sunset Zone 5

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:54:36 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

Tom Jaszewski wrote:
There is never any point in a discussion with you when you've dug
yourself in.

Consider reading the introductory page of the last "Compost Science
and Utilization.

Where exactly are the peer reviewed articles?


Interesting bunch here...peer review is valid unless we're discussing
Monsanto and round up.....

Join Paggers in remaining clueless...or read...


http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/PDF/...-tea-notes.pdf

Tom Jaszewski wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:54:36 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

Tom Jaszewski wrote:
There is never any point in a discussion with you when you've
dug yourself in.

Consider reading the introductory page of the last "Compost
Science and Utilization.

Where exactly are the peer reviewed articles?


Interesting bunch here...peer review is valid unless we're
discussing Monsanto and round up.....

Join Paggers in remaining clueless...or read...


http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/PDF/...-tea-notes.pdf

I use insecticides on ornamentals that is inside the plant not on the
surface. I try not to eat glysophate.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8
Sunset Zone 5

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:29:45 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

I use insecticides on ornamentals


Indicative of your displayed garden talents...