Six 5-gallon buckets and aquarium air stones. I started out with 2 cups
of loose alfalfa meal per, and couldn't find my bottle of molasses, so I
used 2 cups dried 38% molasses.
One bucket didn't have an airstone, so it served as a test batch. Since I
was mostly interested in the nitrogen, the growth hormone, and trace
nutrients I added four more cups of alfalfa. I only let it brew three days
and stirred a few times a day.
All smelled sweet, the sludge expanded to about a third capacity and the
tea was dark green soup.
It probably didn't get the microherd going much, if at all.

Next up, a blend of 2 cups alfalfa and and 2 cups compost with real
molasses in No Nonsense knee highs. I'll brew until I get the gooey, foamy
tea.

"escape" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:57:40 -0500, "cat daddy"
opined:

Six 5-gallon buckets and aquarium air stones. I started out with 2
cups
of loose alfalfa meal per, and couldn't find my bottle of molasses, so I
used 2 cups dried 38% molasses.
One bucket didn't have an airstone, so it served as a test batch.
Since I
was mostly interested in the nitrogen, the growth hormone, and trace
nutrients I added four more cups of alfalfa. I only let it brew three
days
and stirred a few times a day.
All smelled sweet, the sludge expanded to about a third capacity and
the
tea was dark green soup.
It probably didn't get the microherd going much, if at all.

Next up, a blend of 2 cups alfalfa and and 2 cups compost with real
molasses in No Nonsense knee highs. I'll brew until I get the gooey,
foamy
tea.


If you are making aerobic tea, the pantyhose fabric is too tight a weave
and the
beneficial organisms cannot get out of the bag into the water...

Really? That's not good. But almost all the tea websites mention using
panyhose as a tea bag or strainer. I would think the weave would not be
small enough to limit bacteria, although it might with fungi. I'm wanting to
get the little guys into the solution and not cling to the sludge.

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 19:52:03 GMT, escape
wrote:


The absolute authority on this subject is Dr. Elaine Ingham


The absolutely polluted scientist whose techniques have little if any
useful data is Elaine Ingham.....

That being said, 200 micron bags are generally used in commercial
brewers.

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 19:52:03 GMT, escape
wrote:

if you really want the full benefit of the product you make, you
should follow her instructions, closely.


We are beginning to get data showing the fraud for what she is!

In article , X-No-Archive: yes
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 19:52:03 GMT, escape
wrote:

if you really want the full benefit of the product you make, you
should follow her instructions, closely.


We are beginning to get data showing the fraud for what she is!

Vendor Ingaham posing as a scientific researcher set the standard for
vendor-disseminated information & that is never going to change. Ingaham
seems legitimately to have been mentally ill with some paranoid conspiracy
theories on why her data couldn't be duplicated in any actual field study,
so after several years of being a Big Cheese in a crooked industry, she
finally became such an embarrassment she was at long last cast to the
wolves as an abberation. She is not an aberration, & her "findings" are
still the only ones the industry promulgates.

The data to date supports compost teas as a tepid fertilizer & nothing
more; its ability to enhance microorganisms is equal to the ability of
regular watering to do so. Furthermore, though the vendors want you to
believe aerating the tea is best & "safer" because non-aerated tea might
be toxic, the few studies that indicate an unpredictable (so impractical)
ability to deter disease as a foliar spray applies only to non-aerated
teas. And it turns out aerated teas are MORE apt to contain harmful
pathogens, rather than less apt as vendors of pricy equipment pretend,
often on the basis of fraudulant sales-oriented "research" by the likes of
Ingaham.

Vendors want you to believe teas need aeration so that duped marks will
pay $500 to $1,000 for special equipment to do for a high price what could
be done for free & with no such equipment. By & large the whole fad for
garden teas is hokum & what little good teas do is exceeded by any number
of better metheds, such as organic compost topcoatings & sensible
irrigation. And while the tepid fertilizer value of compost teas washes
out of the soil with the first rain or the first regular watering,
maintaining the soil with compost or leafmold topcoatings or other methods
is a longlasting method.

If you have a compost barrel that saves the drippings, it does no harm to
use that as the basis of a cost-free tea. But anyone spending money on
equipment & tea mixes with the expectation that it is anything but the
weakest possible fertilizer, they're duped marks & nothing more

In sum:

1) As a tepid fertilizer, okay, even though of less value than virtually
any other method of soil restoration or improvement.

2) For disease control: it's an illusion. To quote University of
Washington horitulturist Dr. Chalker-Scott: "In the peer-reviewed
literature field-tested compost tea reported no difference in disease
control between compost tea & water."

3) Never believe anything promulgated by vendors. There is no such thing
as an honest garden tea vendor since the honest thing would be not to take
people's money for useless equipment. It is ONLY profitable because
bolstered with lies.

For assessment of the Lies of vendors vs the Realities, see:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.gardens/msg/3e740acc9cd1e1d2?dmode=source

For definitively wasteful & potentially harmful nature of teas, see:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.gardens/msg/4d3a210350839b0d?dmode=source

How the fraud is perpetuated through half-truths & lies & workshops at
nurseries all on the worst level of hucksterism:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.gardens/msg/409e0c1292fe4656?dmode=source

My old report on Ingaham's "tradition needs no science" looniness &
paranoia, written a few months before the embarrassed industry jettisoned
her as their chief divinity:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.gardens/msg/955f80727de46b92?dmode=source

Ingaham's easily lampooned loony-tunes letter that publicly revealed her
magical anti-science thinking & her paranoid state of mind:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.gardens/msg/ff945350d678f297?dmode=source

Any website invested in selling you stuff is not going to provide you
with the actual data of compost teas harming ground water, leaching too
quickly out of soils to be of any benefit, being in every regard inferior
to a topcoating of mulching compost, NOT improving the microorganism
content of soils, NOT repairing anaerobic soils, and for the most part
not even hindering pathogenic organisms (no more than would a good
soaking with pure water in any case).

Not everything labeled "organic" is a good thing. *The pro-Chemical lobby
just hates it when "ecofundies" refuse to believe cancerous toxic
chemicals are good for us & go all insane in defense of their
PetroChemical fetish. Will greenies get just as fetishistic & up in arms
when their favorite organic fad is found out to be 99.9% flimflam? Watch
the Compost Tea thread(s) to find out!

-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden
people maintaining a free civil government." -Thomas Jefferson

Paggers, I sent you the .pdf titled The Role of Uncomposted Materials,
Composts, Manures,
and Compost Extracts in Reducing Pest and Disease
Incidence and Severity in Sustainable Temperate
Agricultural and Horticultural Crop Production—A Review

Did you receive it?

Ingham is a whack but there's significant work by others that doesn't
relegate compost tea to a simple tepid fertilizer.

Vic, call me in Las Vegas! There's more to this story, and Jessica
does NOT have the whole story.

IV. CONCLUSIONS
There is mounting pressure on farmers to reduce pesticide
use. At the same time, farmers must maintain crop yields and
THE ROLE OF UNCOMPOSTED MATERIALS, COMPOSTS, MANURES, AND COMPOST
EXTRACTS 475
maintain or improve crop quality in order that they can retain
their market share. There is increasing evidence that the use of
uncomposted plant residues, composts, manures, and compost
extracts/teas can help them do this through improvements in
soil health and through direct and indirect control of pests and
pathogens.
In a few documented cases, control of specific pests or diseases
using uncomposted plant residues, composts, or compost
extracts/teas in conventional agricultural or horticultural systems
has been equal to or better than that achieved with synthetic
pesticides. However, for many pests and diseases, the
level of control that has been demonstrated in glasshouse and
field trials is lower than that normally considered acceptable
for conventional growers. Commercial and domestic produce
buyers may find it difficult to accept that the quality and yield
of conventional crops treated in this way are often lower. For
organic growers, who have no access to fungicides or other
synthetic pesticides, uncomposted plant residues, composts,
and compost extracts/teas may provide useful additions to the
range of partial disease control solutions to which they have
access.
Considerable work is required to develop protocols that can
be used to ensure predictable and reliable pest and disease
suppression
or control from organic amendments on economically
important temperate crops in different soil types. Some of the
recent work has been done on tropical or sub-tropical crops
and in different soils and farming systems from those represented
in temperate zones. It will be necessary to adapt the
techniques and protocols successfully developed or being developed
in these climate zones for use in temperate farming
systems.
Many of the recent reports of improved plant growth or successful
disease control using compost teas are based on anecdotal
information or commercially sensitive data held by private
companies. There is a strong need for independent research to
demonstrate the effects of compost teas and to elucidate the
mechanisms behind reports of disease suppression or improved
plant growth. A great deal of the recent work on composts and
compost teas done in the United States has been carried out using
input materials that are prohibited or not readily available in
Europe. Research is required to assess the quality and
diseasesuppressive
properties of composts and compost teas prepared
from input materials that are cost-effective and readily available
to European farmers.
REFERENCES
Abawi, G. S. and Crosier, D. C. 1992. Influence of reduced tillage
practices on
root-rot severity and yield of snap beans, 1991. American
Phytopathological
Society, Biological and Cultural Tests 7: 9.
Abawi, G. S. andWidmer,T.L. 2000. Impact of soil health management
practices
on soilborne pathogens, nematodes and root diseases of vegetable
crops. Appl.
Soil Ecol. 15: 37-47.
..Abbasi, P. A., Al-Dahmani, J., Sahin, F., Hoitink, H. A. J., and
Miller, S. A.
2002. Effect of compost amendments on disease severity and yield of
tomato
in conventional and organic production systems. Plant Dis. 86(2):
156-161.
Agrios, G. N. 1977. Control of plant diseases. In: Plant pathology.
4th ed.,
pp 173-221. Academic Press, New York.
Akhtar, M. and Malik, A. 2000. Roles of organic soil amendments and
soil
organisms in the biological control of plant-parasitic nematodes-a
review.
Bioresource Technol. 24: 35-47.
Albiach, R., Canet, R., Pomares, F., and Ingelmo, F. 2000. Microbial
biomass
content and enzymatic activities after the application of organic
amendments
to a horticultural soil. Bioresource Technol. 75: 43-48.
..Al-Dahmani, J. H., Abbasi, P. A., Miller, S. A., and Hoitink, H. A.
J. 2003.
Suppression of bacterial spot of tomato with foliar sprays of compost
extracts
under greenhouse and field conditions. Plant Dis. 87(8): 913-919.
..Anon. 2001. Compost Tea Trials. Cascadia Consulting Group. Final
report
submitted to Office of Environmental Management, City of Seattle. 8
March
2001. 50 pp.
Anon. 2003. A sustainable approach to controlling allium white rot.
Agriculture
Link (Newsletter for the Agriculture and Horticulture Industries
PB8431).
Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, London, UK.
Armstrong, G. and McKinlay, R. G. 1997. The effect of undersowing
cabbages
with clover on the activity of carabid beetles. Biol. Agric. Hortic.
15: 269-277.
Aryantha, I. P., Cross, R., and Guest, D. I. 2000. Suppression of
Phytophthora
cinnamomi in potting mixes amended with uncomposted and composted
animal
manures. Phytopathology 90(7): 775-782.
Baker, K. F. and Cook, R. J. 1974. Biological control of plant
pathogens. In:
The Biology of Plant Pathogens. pp. 220-285. Kelman, A. and Sequira,
L.,
Eds., W. H. Freeman and Co., San Francisco.
..Beare, M. H., Coleman, D. C., Crossley, D. A., Hendix, P. F., and
Odum,
E. P. 1995. A hierarchical approach to evaluating the significance of
soil
biodiversity to biogeochemical cycling. In: The significance and
regulation
of soil biodiversity. Collins, H. P., Robertson, G. P. and Klug, M.
J., Eds.,
Kluwer Academic Publishers, Dordrecht, The Netherlands.
..Ben-Yephet, Y. and Nelson, E. B. 1999. Differential suppression of
dampingoff
caused by Pythium aphanidermatum, P. irregulare, and P. myriotylum in
composts at different temperatures. Plant Dis. 83(4): 356-360.
..Berner, A., Sousa, H., Koller, M., and M¨ader, P. 2000. Suppressivity
of garden
waste and manure compost depending on the turning frequency and
compost
age. Proceedings 13th International IFOAM Scientific Conference,
Basel, 5:
55.
Boehm, M. J. and Hoitink, H. A. J. 1992. Sustenance of microbial
activity in
potting mixes and its impact on severity of Pythium root-rot of
poinsettia.
Phytopathology 82: 259-264.
..Boehm, M. J., Madden, L. V., and Hoitink, H. A. J. 1993. Effect of
organic

In article , X-No-Archive: yes
wrote:

Paggers, I sent you the .pdf titled The Role of Uncomposted Materials,
Composts, Manures,
and Compost Extracts in Reducing Pest and Disease
Incidence and Severity in Sustainable Temperate
Agricultural and Horticultural Crop Production—A Review

Did you receive it?

I got that & wrote you back a long commentary at the time, sorry if you
didn't get it. I saved that pdf file because while there is nothing
actually new in it, & it is not original research in & of itself, it is
the best all-in-one-place overview of peer-reviewed data I've seen, & I
thanked you for sending it at the time. There was only one thing in it
that I had not already read elsewhe that aerobic teas are more likely
than non-aerobic to bare harmful human pathogens. Even with my
science-induced negative opinion of a wholly fraudulant industry, that one
took me by surprise.

As an interesting overview of past research, the piece by & large ends up
dismissing the value of compost teas, but also weaves into the overview a
few "best case" scenarios (which ain't that good but not entirely awful)
which will be the parts vendors will like while ignoroing the great bulk
of the information, since nearly all the claims of tea vendors are
contradicted in the overview. For examples:

Vendor claim: compost teas increase beneficial nematode population & deter
harmful nematode populations. Factoid from overview: "No products of
compost decomposition have been shown to have an immediate effect on
nematode population." None, zip, nada.

Vendor claim: Aerated teas used as foliar spray prevent plant diseases,
but non-aerated teas may contain plant pathogens & human pathogens (those
two claims are to convince tea users they need the expensive aeration
equipment to be both effective & personally safe when spraying teas).
Factoid from overview: "The authors of this review are not aware of any
published evidence to prove either of these claims."

(Indeed, the "best case" studies for sprayed teas controlling pathogens
are for the non-aerated teas only, but the outcomes even for non-aerated
are too unpredictable to be taken seriously for practical applicability.
And the "best" pathogen control is reportedly for powdery mildew, but even
spitting on that would have some positive effect, & if anyone wants REAL
control of mildew they will use dilute milk. The "best case" for something
like tomato blight is that aerated teas had zero effect, non-aerated an
unpredictable or limited benefit occasionally -- so even the best case
outcomes do not support selling all that gawdawful expensive aeration
equipment & special-recipe teabags which are across the board hokum. The
occasional minor or unpredictably positive values of compost teas are all
set against other methods that are predictable & significant, with
composted & uncomposted plant materials still the sensible & effective
choice vs the fad & the fraud of compost tea).

Every vendor claim item by item is either debunked in this overview or
shown to be of minor signifiance compared to other soil enhancement
methods, or unpredictable for reproducible results hence of no practical
value. As teas do have a few tepid or unpredictable values wildly
exaggerated by vendors, there a few statements in the overview vendors
will hail, but it boils down to being a weak & minor fertilizer certainly
unworthy of financial investment in special equipment.

Anyone who wants to use soil teas anyway would learn from the overview of
peer-reviewed research that the cheapest no-energy non-aeration method is
NOT improved upon with aeration vats & equipment, & in fact the tepid
value of teas is more environmentally friendly by cost-free energy-free
non-aerobic methods. So even if the minor positives are inflated in order
to praise teas, the industry promoting teas remains fraudulent. The higher
claims for aerobic teas, as the overview states, are strictly anecdotal,
not scientific, & retold for the sake of promoting private companies, not
to be regarded as verifiable data. The authors do not rule out the
possibility of greater value being discovered but so far the peer-review
science shows that the anecdotal & business-motivated claims are proving
very, very hard to substantiate in reality.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden
people maintaining a free civil government." -Thomas Jefferson