If it's true, then it's not libel. A few pictures and the box the
plants came in should be adequate proof, but it's unlikely he needs
it, because no one is going to waster their time on nonsense like
this.

As for recommending people not do business with them, that's clearly
personal opinion, which he's entitled to give.

If he paid by credit card, he has some recourse. It's not uncommon to
have probems of this type with mail order nurseries.

On 6 Jun 2004 09:40:35 -0700, (Chet Hayes)
wrote:

If it's true, then it's not libel. A few pictures and the box the
plants came in should be adequate proof, but it's unlikely he needs
it, because no one is going to waster their time on nonsense like
this.

As for recommending people not do business with them, that's clearly
personal opinion, which he's entitled to give.

If he paid by credit card, he has some recourse. It's not uncommon to
have probems of this type with mail order nurseries.

Sorry, first let me say I'm not armed with a law degree, only common
sense. The same common sense that a jury of 6 would use to find this
person at fault.

He didn't state an option when he told people not to do business with
them. He made a statement, a command. Even before he explained his
situtation.

Next, the gentleman failed to point out something, there was a third
party involved, the delivery company. Let's play along, the shipper
sent undamage trees. The customer received damaged trees. What does
the customer do? Blames the shipper, gets in an argument and hangs
up. That was hypothethical.

Ive received damaged items shipped. The shipper said they weren't
dammaged, I received them damaged(not noticed till opened), UPS
investigated and I got a full refund of everything.

Now for something from the nursery site: "Our nursery is not
responsible & liable for losses or damages to the plants done by the
shipping carrier (FEDEX , UPS, USPS). All complaints must be done
immeidately to the carrier at delivery in case of apparent or
concealed damages. "

Also, sounds like there could be a problem with getting money back
from the credit card company if he didn't take the necessary steps.

Wish him luck, and maybe everyone can get a win/win situation out of
this.

later,

tom


**************** http://www.Intertainia.com ***********************************
Our Latest site: http://www.MedicalJobList.com - Hospital Jobs Classifieds.
************************************************** *****************************

In article ,
wrote:

On 6 Jun 2004 09:40:35 -0700, (Chet Hayes)
wrote:

If it's true, then it's not libel. A few pictures and the box the
plants came in should be adequate proof, but it's unlikely he needs
it, because no one is going to waster their time on nonsense like
this.

As for recommending people not do business with them, that's clearly
personal opinion, which he's entitled to give.

If he paid by credit card, he has some recourse. It's not uncommon to
have probems of this type with mail order nurseries.

Sorry, first let me say I'm not armed with a law degree, only common
sense. The same common sense that a jury of 6 would use to find this
person at fault.

He didn't state an option when he told people not to do business with
them. He made a statement, a command. Even before he explained his
situtation.

Next, the gentleman failed to point out something, there was a third
party involved, the delivery company. Let's play along, the shipper
sent undamage trees. The customer received damaged trees. What does
the customer do? Blames the shipper, gets in an argument and hangs
up. That was hypothethical.

Ive received damaged items shipped. The shipper said they weren't
dammaged, I received them damaged(not noticed till opened), UPS
investigated and I got a full refund of everything.

Now for something from the nursery site: "Our nursery is not
responsible & liable for losses or damages to the plants done by the
shipping carrier (FEDEX , UPS, USPS). All complaints must be done
immeidately to the carrier at delivery in case of apparent or
concealed damages. "

Honest nurseries replace anything that arrives damaged, period. If they
adhere to the policy "take it up with UPS, because we couldn't care less,"
then indeed this company should be avoided.

The NURSERY ships & the shipper is the nursery's agent, not mine. I pay
the NURSERY for the product & the shipping, I do not pay the shipper. If
the company needs to deal with their shipper or their shipping insurance,
they can do so, but if I order something that is shipped to me, the
company I bought it from & no one else WILL take complete responsibility
for getting it to me safely & as advertised.

I've not as yet dealt with any nursery that was less than eager to make
every order 100% right. If Palm & Garden actually adheres to that stated
policy, in that case they are, no question about it, crooks.

-paghat the ratgirl

Also, sounds like there could be a problem with getting money back
from the credit card company if he didn't take the necessary steps.

Wish him luck, and maybe everyone can get a win/win situation out of
this.

later,

tom

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

paghat wrote:

I've not as yet dealt with any nursery that was less than eager to make
every order 100% right.

This is a telling point ... do you really think Palm & Garden is any
exception to your experience? I've dealt with a lot of customers and I
promise you that there are plenty of jerks out there. Companies want your
money and if you paid with a credit card, have to keep on your good side
until well after settlement is made.

If Palm & Garden actually adheres to that stated
policy, in that case they are, no question about it, crooks.

-paghat the ratgirl


Ummm nope ... if they actually adhere to their stated policy that makes them
honest. When you buy from a company you agree to its printed conditions. If
you don't like them, buy elsewhere. That policy is part of the purchase
contract (offer, acceptance, exchange) and a customer has no reasonable
expectation of anything else.

Sometimes companys BREAK their policies and give more value than agreed upon
in order to secure future sales ... but when they do so they have broken
their written word.

I also don't think we know enough about the OP to be certain he/she is
telling the truth here. DID the tree arrive damaged or did it get that way
afterwards? We really don't know. Did they have the hassle they related? We
don't know anything except what the OP told us and that means we don't
'know' anything at all ... except that they lost their temper and were very
rude with some peon on a help desk.

I'm not going to back the openly rude person up. So far as I am concerned,
he can just flap in the breeze. It seems clear to me that they can not
handle their own temper and this makes me wonder if the tree was actually
broken at all or if they are just trying to scam Palm & Gardens.

Let me make two points and then I'll shut up.

1) We don't have access to the facts, only one person's story. It would be
interesting if someone from Palm & Garden could follow up with their side
of events.

2) Even if we did have access to the facts, we can't force either party to
behave better. Most especially we can't give the helpdesk peon any solace
for having to deal with ill-mannered and ill-tempered morons.

Bill

In article ,
Mike LaMana fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote:
I would be very careful posting this sort of thing..actually I wouldn't post
this sort of thing. Looks almost libelous.


Truth is an absolute defense against the charge of libel.

billo

In article ,
Bill wrote:

I also don't think we know enough about the OP to be certain he/she is
telling the truth here. DID the tree arrive damaged or did it get that way
afterwards? We really don't know. Did they have the hassle they related? We
don't know anything except what the OP told us and that means we don't
'know' anything at all ... except that they lost their temper and were very
rude with some peon on a help desk.



Youd could always do a little research. A 15 second trip to the
Better Business Bureau reveals:


Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with
the Bureau due to unanswered complaints.


see:

http://www.bbbsoutheastflorida.org/

and look up the company.


In addition, a quick Google shows this complaint is voiced by others. See:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...020167767.html
http://gardenwatchdog.com/c/2435/


Sometimes, you know, it's not the customer's fault. We aren't all
stupid.


billo

If it's true, then it's not libel. A few pictures and the box the
plants came in should be adequate proof, but it's unlikely he needs
it, because no one is going to waster their time on nonsense like
this.

As for recommending people not do business with them, that's clearly
personal opinion, which he's entitled to give.

If he paid by credit card, he has some recourse. It's not uncommon to
have probems of this type with mail order nurseries.

On 6 Jun 2004 09:40:35 -0700, (Chet Hayes)
wrote:

If it's true, then it's not libel. A few pictures and the box the
plants came in should be adequate proof, but it's unlikely he needs
it, because no one is going to waster their time on nonsense like
this.

As for recommending people not do business with them, that's clearly
personal opinion, which he's entitled to give.

If he paid by credit card, he has some recourse. It's not uncommon to
have probems of this type with mail order nurseries.

Sorry, first let me say I'm not armed with a law degree, only common
sense. The same common sense that a jury of 6 would use to find this
person at fault.

He didn't state an option when he told people not to do business with
them. He made a statement, a command. Even before he explained his
situtation.

Next, the gentleman failed to point out something, there was a third
party involved, the delivery company. Let's play along, the shipper
sent undamage trees. The customer received damaged trees. What does
the customer do? Blames the shipper, gets in an argument and hangs
up. That was hypothethical.

Ive received damaged items shipped. The shipper said they weren't
dammaged, I received them damaged(not noticed till opened), UPS
investigated and I got a full refund of everything.

Now for something from the nursery site: "Our nursery is not
responsible & liable for losses or damages to the plants done by the
shipping carrier (FEDEX , UPS, USPS). All complaints must be done
immeidately to the carrier at delivery in case of apparent or
concealed damages. "

Also, sounds like there could be a problem with getting money back
from the credit card company if he didn't take the necessary steps.

Wish him luck, and maybe everyone can get a win/win situation out of
this.

later,

tom


**************** http://www.Intertainia.com ***********************************
Our Latest site: http://www.MedicalJobList.com - Hospital Jobs Classifieds.
************************************************** *****************************

In article ,
wrote:

On 6 Jun 2004 09:40:35 -0700, (Chet Hayes)
wrote:

If it's true, then it's not libel. A few pictures and the box the
plants came in should be adequate proof, but it's unlikely he needs
it, because no one is going to waster their time on nonsense like
this.

As for recommending people not do business with them, that's clearly
personal opinion, which he's entitled to give.

If he paid by credit card, he has some recourse. It's not uncommon to
have probems of this type with mail order nurseries.

Sorry, first let me say I'm not armed with a law degree, only common
sense. The same common sense that a jury of 6 would use to find this
person at fault.

He didn't state an option when he told people not to do business with
them. He made a statement, a command. Even before he explained his
situtation.

Next, the gentleman failed to point out something, there was a third
party involved, the delivery company. Let's play along, the shipper
sent undamage trees. The customer received damaged trees. What does
the customer do? Blames the shipper, gets in an argument and hangs
up. That was hypothethical.

Ive received damaged items shipped. The shipper said they weren't
dammaged, I received them damaged(not noticed till opened), UPS
investigated and I got a full refund of everything.

Now for something from the nursery site: "Our nursery is not
responsible & liable for losses or damages to the plants done by the
shipping carrier (FEDEX , UPS, USPS). All complaints must be done
immeidately to the carrier at delivery in case of apparent or
concealed damages. "

Honest nurseries replace anything that arrives damaged, period. If they
adhere to the policy "take it up with UPS, because we couldn't care less,"
then indeed this company should be avoided.

The NURSERY ships & the shipper is the nursery's agent, not mine. I pay
the NURSERY for the product & the shipping, I do not pay the shipper. If
the company needs to deal with their shipper or their shipping insurance,
they can do so, but if I order something that is shipped to me, the
company I bought it from & no one else WILL take complete responsibility
for getting it to me safely & as advertised.

I've not as yet dealt with any nursery that was less than eager to make
every order 100% right. If Palm & Garden actually adheres to that stated
policy, in that case they are, no question about it, crooks.

-paghat the ratgirl

Also, sounds like there could be a problem with getting money back
from the credit card company if he didn't take the necessary steps.

Wish him luck, and maybe everyone can get a win/win situation out of
this.

later,

tom

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

paghat wrote:

I've not as yet dealt with any nursery that was less than eager to make
every order 100% right.

This is a telling point ... do you really think Palm & Garden is any
exception to your experience? I've dealt with a lot of customers and I
promise you that there are plenty of jerks out there. Companies want your
money and if you paid with a credit card, have to keep on your good side
until well after settlement is made.

If Palm & Garden actually adheres to that stated
policy, in that case they are, no question about it, crooks.

-paghat the ratgirl


Ummm nope ... if they actually adhere to their stated policy that makes them
honest. When you buy from a company you agree to its printed conditions. If
you don't like them, buy elsewhere. That policy is part of the purchase
contract (offer, acceptance, exchange) and a customer has no reasonable
expectation of anything else.

Sometimes companys BREAK their policies and give more value than agreed upon
in order to secure future sales ... but when they do so they have broken
their written word.

I also don't think we know enough about the OP to be certain he/she is
telling the truth here. DID the tree arrive damaged or did it get that way
afterwards? We really don't know. Did they have the hassle they related? We
don't know anything except what the OP told us and that means we don't
'know' anything at all ... except that they lost their temper and were very
rude with some peon on a help desk.

I'm not going to back the openly rude person up. So far as I am concerned,
he can just flap in the breeze. It seems clear to me that they can not
handle their own temper and this makes me wonder if the tree was actually
broken at all or if they are just trying to scam Palm & Gardens.

Let me make two points and then I'll shut up.

1) We don't have access to the facts, only one person's story. It would be
interesting if someone from Palm & Garden could follow up with their side
of events.

2) Even if we did have access to the facts, we can't force either party to
behave better. Most especially we can't give the helpdesk peon any solace
for having to deal with ill-mannered and ill-tempered morons.

Bill

In article ,
Mike LaMana fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote:
I would be very careful posting this sort of thing..actually I wouldn't post
this sort of thing. Looks almost libelous.


Truth is an absolute defense against the charge of libel.

billo

In article ,
Bill wrote:

I also don't think we know enough about the OP to be certain he/she is
telling the truth here. DID the tree arrive damaged or did it get that way
afterwards? We really don't know. Did they have the hassle they related? We
don't know anything except what the OP told us and that means we don't
'know' anything at all ... except that they lost their temper and were very
rude with some peon on a help desk.



Youd could always do a little research. A 15 second trip to the
Better Business Bureau reveals:


Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with
the Bureau due to unanswered complaints.


see:

http://www.bbbsoutheastflorida.org/

and look up the company.


In addition, a quick Google shows this complaint is voiced by others. See:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...020167767.html
http://gardenwatchdog.com/c/2435/


Sometimes, you know, it's not the customer's fault. We aren't all
stupid.


billo

paghat the ratgirl wrote:

...................
Honest nurseries replace anything that arrives damaged, period. If they
adhere to the policy "take it up with UPS, because we couldn't care less,"
then indeed this company should be avoided.

The NURSERY ships & the shipper is the nursery's agent, not mine. I pay
the NURSERY for the product & the shipping, I do not pay the shipper. If
the company needs to deal with their shipper or their shipping insurance,
they can do so, but if I order something that is shipped to me, the
company I bought it from & no one else WILL take complete responsibility
for getting it to me safely & as advertised.

I agree completely. With their policy, there's nothing to prevent
them from packing up a damaged plant and sending it. They leave it
up to the customer to fight with the shipper and they pocket the
money anyway.

On the other hand, it seems the original poster hasn't been back to
comment further. That might be of significance too.

Steve

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:06:13 -0400, Steve wrote:



paghat the ratgirl wrote:

...................
Honest nurseries replace anything that arrives damaged, period. If they
adhere to the policy "take it up with UPS, because we couldn't care less,"
then indeed this company should be avoided.

The NURSERY ships & the shipper is the nursery's agent, not mine. I pay
the NURSERY for the product & the shipping, I do not pay the shipper. If
the company needs to deal with their shipper or their shipping insurance,
they can do so, but if I order something that is shipped to me, the
company I bought it from & no one else WILL take complete responsibility
for getting it to me safely & as advertised.

I agree completely. With their policy, there's nothing to prevent
them from packing up a damaged plant and sending it. They leave it
up to the customer to fight with the shipper and they pocket the
money anyway.

On the other hand, it seems the original poster hasn't been back to
comment further. That might be of significance too.

Steve

I recently had the pleasure of trying to deal with the UPS on an
insurance claim for a damaged antique. UPS insurance is simply a
scam. Their position was that I find out what the damaged part would
cost to replace (it is not replaceable) and leave the part with them.
The only alternative was to claim the full amount and leave the
antique with the UPS for up to 6 months while they decided whether
they would honor the claim or not. They would not accept estimates
from reliable restorers, and would not *recommend* having it repaired
as the claim might be denied. I sent off a couple of letters (by
other couriers) to local and national officials at UPS and received
absolutely no replies, not even from customer service. Personally, I
am done either receiving or shipping via UPS. Fortunately I paid for
the item with a credit card, so now it is the dealer's problem
(returned at their expense for a full refund).

On 6 Jun 2004 09:40:35 -0700, (Chet Hayes)
wrote:

If it's true, then it's not libel. A few pictures and the box the
plants came in should be adequate proof, but it's unlikely he needs
it, because no one is going to waster their time on nonsense like
this.

As for recommending people not do business with them, that's clearly
personal opinion, which he's entitled to give.

If he paid by credit card, he has some recourse. It's not uncommon to
have probems of this type with mail order nurseries.

Sorry, first let me say I'm not armed with a law degree, only common
sense. The same common sense that a jury of 6 would use to find this
person at fault.

He didn't state an option when he told people not to do business with
them. He made a statement, a command. Even before he explained his
situtation.

Next, the gentleman failed to point out something, there was a third
party involved, the delivery company. Let's play along, the shipper
sent undamage trees. The customer received damaged trees. What does
the customer do? Blames the shipper, gets in an argument and hangs
up. That was hypothethical.

Ive received damaged items shipped. The shipper said they weren't
dammaged, I received them damaged(not noticed till opened), UPS
investigated and I got a full refund of everything.

Now for something from the nursery site: "Our nursery is not
responsible & liable for losses or damages to the plants done by the
shipping carrier (FEDEX , UPS, USPS). All complaints must be done
immeidately to the carrier at delivery in case of apparent or
concealed damages. "

Also, sounds like there could be a problem with getting money back
from the credit card company if he didn't take the necessary steps.

Wish him luck, and maybe everyone can get a win/win situation out of
this.

later,

tom


**************** http://www.Intertainia.com ***********************************
Our Latest site: http://www.MedicalJobList.com - Hospital Jobs Classifieds.
************************************************** *****************************