On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:46:55 +0100, I found this from Janet
Baraclough.. :

The message
from "Brian" contains these words:

The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004] research
suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no relevance~~ the
prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments.

Exactly.

The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy
patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion. The
proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand carriers of
vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via contact
with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments.

Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion
during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no
longer import any human blood products from the UK.

Janet






So the animal products are now in the clear. Blood transfusion and
instruments are now responsible. And of course scientific sources are
impecable, truthful and honest. They don't indulge in spin. Who pays
the piper.....

"Agnes" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:46:55 +0100, I found this from Janet
Baraclough.. :

The message
from "Brian" contains these words:

The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004]
research
suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no relevance~~
the
prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments.

Exactly.

The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy
patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion.
The
proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand
carriers of
vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via
contact
with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments.

Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion
during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no
longer import any human blood products from the UK.

Janet






So the animal products are now in the clear. Blood transfusion and
instruments are now responsible. And of course scientific sources are
impecable, truthful and honest. They don't indulge in spin. Who pays
the piper.....

Nothing is 'in the clear'. Potential avenues of infection are all under
investigation to avoid further contamination.
The only recent conclusion is that animal products might not be/have been
the only method of infection. Or even at all.
Brian.

In article , Agnes
wrote:

On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:46:55 +0100, I found this from Janet
Baraclough.. :

The message
from "Brian" contains these words:

The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004] research
suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no relevance~~ the
prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments.

Exactly.

The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy
patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion. The
proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand carriers of
vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via contact
with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments.

Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion
during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no
longer import any human blood products from the UK.

Janet






So the animal products are now in the clear. Blood transfusion and
instruments are now responsible. And of course scientific sources are
impecable, truthful and honest. They don't indulge in spin. Who pays
the piper.....

Actually there is no such journal of any so-called "West of England
Medical School, May 2004" & that isn't even the name of Department of
Health & Social Care at the University of the West of England, Bristol.
The citation was incomplete because entirely bogus. Brian's fake citation
is either misremembered hearsay, or he just made it up. And the University
of the West of England doesn't even have fascilities for the study of
BSE/mad cow, though that school has many experts in economics of cattle
agriculture, and has been involved in longterm studies of safer cattle
farming techniques funded by the beef industry.

The claim that prion-infected meat & meat byproducts are in the clear is
just wacky. The journey of these prions from infected sheep, to rendering
plant cattle feeds, to cattle, to humans is not in debate. How original
infections are passed between ruminants, however, is still an unknown
process. But BSE (Bovine spongiform encephalopathy) & CJD (
Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease) in humans have repeatedly been shown to have
the same causitive agent, a prion that is not damaged even by high
temperatures & survives any degree of meat processing or byproduct
rendering.

There is a separate form of CJD called "sporadic CJD" which might not be
connected to beef & beef byproducts. A meat-industry propoganda campaigne
attempted to misuse information about sporadic CJD as evidence that beef
didn't cause the sudden rash of cases in humans. No science supports the
cluster of red herrings & half-truths the meat industry put out there. And
though the University of the West of England does a lot of work for the
beef industry, I do not believe the fake citation has any basis in
reality, the Bristol test farms being aimed at healthier farm practices
rather than participation in the propoganda blitz on both sides of the
Atlantic.

The key source of misinformation on the web is the anti-consumer
industry-sponsored & misleadingly named Center for Consumer Freedom. It
was founded as a front group for the restaurant, alcohol, & tobacco
industries, but in the last few years been well funded additionally by the
beef industry. They oppose anything that makes meat, fast food, or alcohol
look bad, & have served as attack-dogs equally against activists &
scientists. In a May 11, 2002 San Francisco Chronicle article, Center for
Consumer Freedom spokesman John Doyle was actually cajoled by a reporter
into this amazing confession: " our enemies are just about every consumer
& environmental group, chef, legislator or doctor who raises objections to
things like pesticide use, genetic engineering of crops or antibiotic use
in beef and poultry." The CCF claims "reputable scientists" have proven
beef is not involved in human infection -- but no scientists are named.
Here's a synopsis of the pure-propoganda all-the-time "take" paid for by
the beef industry to a PR group pretending to be a consumer organization:
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/madco...TOKEN=96900063

They never provide any sources for these extreme minority opinions of beef
never having caused this disease in humans, & nobody who is not a lunatic
with some of their brain cells already spongiformed could seriously fall
for it.

-paghat the ratgirl
-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

The message
from "Brian" contains these words:

The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004]
research
suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no
relevance~~ the
prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments.

Exactly.

The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy
patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion.
The
proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand
carriers of
vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via
contact
with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments.

Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion
during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no
longer import any human blood products from the UK.
________________________________

The above was headlined in all the National Press and was extracted from
appropriate publications ~this month. The research is totally available.
The Medical School is Plymouth/Exeter based and highly regarded though
relatively recently founded. However, their research has been ongoing for
many years. Our daughter was involved with the team.
Google should be able to give the details more precisely.

We can only hope that they search for a means of eliminating T-AVD. Those
infected with this form of Verbal Diarrhoea are only found Trans-Atlantic
and might find a simpleton to believe them. I would personally prescribe
Grammoxone~ even though it is a fairly painless termination.
Brian.

The message
from (paghat) contains these words:


Actually it's dead-on on-topic that gardeners should know the evidence of
four out of 50 deaths effected gardeners through use of bonemeal, the rest
through eating at Mcdonalds. Those are FACTS

No, they are garbled nonsense, for which you have failed to provide
any evidence of scientific research. Sorry, American newspaper reports
don't count.

Janet.

The message
from Agnes contains these words:


So the animal products are now in the clear. Blood transfusion and
instruments are now responsible. And of course scientific sources are
impecable, truthful and honest. They don't indulge in spin. Who pays
the piper.....

You seem to have misread. Nobody has suggested that "animal products
are in the clear".

There is another way to contract nv CJD, via human blood products and
contaminated surgical instruments, which may explain why vegetarians
also develop the disease.

Janet.

Our mad cow never made it into the food chain, yours did.

That aside. Thanks for the warning about bone meal. What kind of other
fertilizer would be good for roses?

take care
Liz



On Fri, 28 May 2004 15:38:50 -0700, (paghat)
wrote:

After the mad cow scare last year here in Washington state (thanks to
infected cows brought in from Canada making it into the human foodchain) a

For bone meal, replace using soft rock phosphate. Not that awful junk Triple
Phosphate. Really, my roses (I have 2, a Rosa rugosa and an antique climber)
love the application of compost, and I fertilize them with organic pelletized
fertilizer, LadyBug Brand (if you can not find it in your area, ask around for
another brand of certified organic) and I spray the roses with aerobic tea,
liquid seaweed, molasses, apple cider vinegar and fish emulsion. All of that
goes into a sprayer at a rate of 1 tablespoon per gallon of (rain) water, and
the aerobic tea at about a cup to the gallon. I do this and I have virtually no
problems. I cannot control the humidity. The roses get plenty of air
circulation.

On Mon, 31 May 2004 03:30:21 GMT, MisNomer opined:

Our mad cow never made it into the food chain, yours did.

That aside. Thanks for the warning about bone meal. What kind of other
fertilizer would be good for roses?

take care
Liz



On Fri, 28 May 2004 15:38:50 -0700, (paghat)
wrote:

After the mad cow scare last year here in Washington state (thanks to
infected cows brought in from Canada making it into the human foodchain) a



Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
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On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:01:05 +0100, I found this from Janet
Baraclough.. :

There is another way to contract nv CJD, via human blood products and
contaminated surgical instruments, which may explain why vegetarians
also develop the disease.

Janet.

Thy did not have surgery!!!

On Mon, 31 May 2004 14:25:47 GMT, I found this from escapee
:

For bone meal, replace using soft rock phosphate.

Been using this for years its really worht using.

Will

On Mon, 31 May 2004 21:44:10 +0100, Will opined:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 14:25:47 GMT, I found this from escapee
:

For bone meal, replace using soft rock phosphate.

Been using this for years its really worht using.

Will

Yes, it is. I find it a more available form of phosphate than any other organic
form. Many times there is plenty of phosphorous in the soil, but it's locked up
and to help with the exchange of that I use epsom salts.

V


Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

In article ,
paghat wrote:

Four cases in Great Britain were not traceable to any meat eaten, but all
four were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. It is believed they
inhaled the initial prion infection while spreading bone meal in their
gardens.


No doubt *all four* of them also drank water, breathed air, and wore
clothes. Thus, you must believe that drinking water, breathing air,
and wearing clothes causes BSE.

In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever that using bonemeal leads
to BSE. The BSE hysteria is a wonderful example of hysteria overtaking
science.


billo

In article ,
Janet Baraclough.. wrote:

Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion
during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no
longer import any human blood products from the UK.

Janet

Even the FDA has admitted there is no scientific basis for this
decision in the US -- it was purely political, in order to
"reassure" the population.

In fact, this is one example of the BSE hysteria *costing* lives.
The FDA allows fewer and fewer people to donate blood for political
reasons while the demand for blood rises, leading to severe
blood shortages. BSE has cost lives in the US -- because of the
over-reaction to a very small risk.

billo

In article , (Silly
Billy) wrote:

In article ,
paghat wrote:

Four cases in Great Britain were not traceable to any meat eaten, but all
four were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. It is believed they
inhaled the initial prion infection while spreading bone meal in their
gardens.


No doubt *all four* of them also drank water, breathed air, and wore
clothes.
billo

Your usual netkook thinking at work again. Someone could jump off a cliff
& break his spine & cave in his skull, & if it were profitable to convince
others to break their spines & skulls, you'd tell 'em the headlong leap
was harmless, because all the injured parties were actually maimed &
killed because they breathed air & drank water water & wore clothes.
Somehow I suspect holding their breath, going thirsty, & being naked all
the time, wouldn't change the course of a dease, the cause of which is
well established.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

In article ,
Janet Baraclough.. wrote:

There is another way to contract nv CJD, via human blood products and
contaminated surgical instruments, which may explain why vegetarians
also develop the disease.

Janet.


Please provide a citation of a case of BSE/vCJD transmitted by blood transfusion.
Blood transfusion is an inefficient method of transmission in sheep, and as
far as I know, there has never been a case in humans. If you have a case,
please cite it.

More important, please cite the actual calculated risk (for example, see:
Dealler S. Transfus Med. 1996 Sep;6(3):217-22 A matter for debate: the risk
of bovine spongiform encephalopathy to humans posed by blood transfusion in
the UK.)

It's one thing to trumpet a theoretical risk. It's another to look at what
the risk actually *is.*

billo