I'd like to know how corporations can now actually trademark PLANTS -
THINGS THAT GROW - and SUE people who grow them.

To give an example... apparently if you try to get seed out of a
calibrachoa plant, OR plant separate cuttings of it, you can be sued
for copyright violation! Some corporation claims to have "invented"
the hybrid, so that means that no one but them is allowed to grow
it!!!

For this reason, calibrachoa seed is ILLEGAL to buy in seed form, so
everyone misses out on being able to grow it.

How is it possible that such a ridiculous law can be enforced country
wide in the United States?

Alex Olson wrote:

I'd like to know how corporations can now actually trademark PLANTS -
THINGS THAT GROW - and SUE people who grow them.

To give an example... apparently if you try to get seed out of a
calibrachoa plant, OR plant separate cuttings of it, you can be sued
for copyright violation! Some corporation claims to have "invented"
the hybrid, so that means that no one but them is allowed to grow
it!!!

For this reason, calibrachoa seed is ILLEGAL to buy in seed form, so
everyone misses out on being able to grow it.

How is it possible that such a ridiculous law can be enforced country
wide in the United States?


Protected plant varieties only cover asexual propagation. The growers
license doesn't say anything about seeds:
http://www.goldsmithplants.com/busin...on_license.htm

Calibrachoa doesn't produce many seeds; that's probably why the seeds are
not available.

Regards,
Bob

If you develope a plant that you don't want me to grow from a seed, from a
cutting, from air layering, then develope it so I can't grow one.
Ever go to a website and even though it states that you can't copy and paste
the text or download a picture or at least without permission, you still do it?
Ever go to a website where wedding proofs are and even though it states that
you can't download a picture, you still do it?
Or at least you try to do it and a window opens saying you can't do it, and by
god you can't!
So this technology is available, if you don't want me to use text or a photo
then set it up so I can't. AOL has all their windows set so photos can't be
downloaded.

Alex Olson wrote in message . ..
I'd like to know how corporations can now actually trademark PLANTS -
THINGS THAT GROW - and SUE people who grow them.

To give an example... apparently if you try to get seed out of a
calibrachoa plant, OR plant separate cuttings of it, you can be sued
for copyright violation! Some corporation claims to have "invented"
the hybrid, so that means that no one but them is allowed to grow
it!!!

For this reason, calibrachoa seed is ILLEGAL to buy in seed form, so
everyone misses out on being able to grow it.

How is it possible that such a ridiculous law can be enforced country
wide in the United States?

You can propagete anything you want for your own use.
You will get into trouble selling or distributing however.
Why shouldn't the plant breeder be paid for his work and talent?

"Beecrofter" wrote in message
om...
You can propagete anything you want for your own use.
You will get into trouble selling or distributing however.
Why shouldn't the plant breeder be paid for his work and talent?

Farmers can't legally save seeds from corn if the original was
purchased from Pioneer, et.al. In many corn belt states there are
lawsuits brought by the seed companies and there is pending state
legislation to help the farmers. But the states probably can't really
do anything about it because it involves interstate commerce and comes
under Federal jurisdiction. It appears the propagation prohibition
does not apply only to vegetative propagation as someone posted
earlier. -Olin.

TOM KAN PA wrote:

If you develope a plant that you don't want me to grow from a seed, from a
cutting, from air layering, then develope it so I can't grow one.
Ever go to a website and even though it states that you can't copy and paste
the text or download a picture or at least without permission, you still do it?
Ever go to a website where wedding proofs are and even though it states that
you can't download a picture, you still do it?
Or at least you try to do it and a window opens saying you can't do it, and by
god you can't!
So this technology is available, if you don't want me to use text or a photo
then set it up so I can't. AOL has all their windows set so photos can't be
downloaded.


There are many ways around the "no-click" scripts for photos, all they
do is make it hard for the average person.

Same with plants: anyone sufficiently motivated will figure out a way.

Janine

omi wrote:

"Beecrofter" wrote in message
om...

You can propagete anything you want for your own use.
You will get into trouble selling or distributing however.
Why shouldn't the plant breeder be paid for his work and talent?


Farmers can't legally save seeds from corn if the original was
purchased from Pioneer, et.al. In many corn belt states there are
lawsuits brought by the seed companies and there is pending state
legislation to help the farmers. But the states probably can't really
do anything about it because it involves interstate commerce and comes
under Federal jurisdiction. It appears the propagation prohibition
does not apply only to vegetative propagation as someone posted
earlier. -Olin.


Farming is a business. They won't go after the backyard growers because
it is too hard to track them down and the profit isn't there.

Janine

How is it possible that such a ridiculous law can be enforced country
wide in the United States?

BRBR

Probably it can't. So go ahead and propagate (plants I mean) just don't put
the info on a billboad. It's like the opium poppy issue, in a way--I've seen
them all over California, but they're quite legal to grow as long as you don't
use them to make opium.

Now to chase those dragons out...
zemedelec

Alex Olson wrote:

How is it possible that such a ridiculous law can be enforced country
wide in the United States?


You mean a country based on capitalism?

One of the hallmarks of our country is that people are entitled to
profit from their labors. The incentive to produce new hybrids isn't the
possibility of being able to name it. The incentive is profit.

If there is any country in the world where this would be the law of the
land, it would be the United States. I'm sure there are plenty of
communist countries where the labors of others are taken by the masses
with no compensation. Perhaps you can go there and rip-off the breeders
of new hybrids -- if you can find any.

But then again the new way of life in this country is to rip other
people off. Download illegal MP3's. It's okay. Propagate trademarked
hybrids? Who cares. Rip-off the people who worked hard to produce them.
After all, they're a "corporation", and not real people trying to feed
their families.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/

Warren wrote:

Alex Olson wrote:

How is it possible that such a ridiculous law can be enforced country
wide in the United States?



You mean a country based on capitalism?

One of the hallmarks of our country is that people are entitled to
profit from their labors. The incentive to produce new hybrids isn't the
possibility of being able to name it. The incentive is profit.

If there is any country in the world where this would be the law of the
land, it would be the United States. I'm sure there are plenty of
communist countries where the labors of others are taken by the masses
with no compensation. Perhaps you can go there and rip-off the breeders
of new hybrids -- if you can find any.

But then again the new way of life in this country is to rip other
people off. Download illegal MP3's. It's okay. Propagate trademarked
hybrids? Who cares. Rip-off the people who worked hard to produce them.
After all, they're a "corporation", and not real people trying to feed
their families.



I posted a link to the actual propagation license agreement. It didn't say
anything restricting propagating by seeds.

Best regards,
Bob

How is it possible that such a ridiculous law can be enforced country
wide in the United States?

It cant be enforced really, but people who spend time and money to come up with
new plants deserve to have the rights to those plants. Just like musicians
have the right to get payed for thier music. The laws concerning asexual
propagation are meant for growers, not homeowners. You can propagate anything
from the plants you already payed for as long as you arent selling them. Now,
if you are interested in rediculous laws, how can this country stop people from
growing and using for recreation plants that are found naturally growing in the
wild?

Toad

"Warren" wrote in news:K%R4b.149476$2x.43017
@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net:

If there is any country in the world where this would be the law of the
land, it would be the United States. I'm sure there are plenty of
communist countries where the labors of others are taken by the masses
with no compensation. Perhaps you can go there and rip-off the breeders
of new hybrids -- if you can find any.

Somebody posted a link here or edibles with wheelbarrow full of Russian
tomato hybrids probably within a month or two ago.

But then again the new way of life in this country is to rip other
people off. Download illegal MP3's. It's okay. Propagate trademarked
hybrids? Who cares. Rip-off the people who worked hard to produce them.
After all, they're a "corporation", and not real people trying to feed
their families.

As I understand it, musicians sign record contracts and the record company
pays them a set amount. The record company then sells the music at a fixed
price (that is until they got busted) and keeps the profits. So in
essence, people who download illegal mp3s are really ripping off the record
company, whose executives and share holders, let me tell you, worked really
hard to feed their families.

- Salty

In article ,
pamfree (Zemedelec) wrote:


How is it possible that such a ridiculous law can be enforced country
wide in the United States?

BRBR

Probably it can't. So go ahead and propagate (plants I mean) just don't
put
the info on a billboad. It's like the opium poppy issue, in a way--I've
seen
them all over California, but they're quite legal to grow as long as you
don't
use them to make opium.

Now to chase those dragons out...
zemedelec

Au contrai you can get busted for growing Papaver somniferum, seeds
are the only part it's legal to possess. They have even cracked down on
sale of dried seed pods, which used to be sold for flower arrangements.
A lot of companies sell the seeds, a lot of people grow them for the
flowers, enforcement is very spotty, but it is illegal. Check out
Michael Pollan's The Botany of Desire for a good read on this subject.

I agree Warren. It is a matter of ethics and fair remuneration for efforts.
I am appalled by the amount of theft I see in our daily lives. But where as
Joe Citizen wouldn't take a dollar bill off a table, they would think it OK
to steal (download music), make illegal copies of software, or plagiarize
intellectual property. I don't get it!. I have written some good material
only to find that acquaintances had stripped off my name as author before
forwarding it to others or using it for their own interests. It surprises me
that so many gardeners (who I have assumed to be of superior character)
think that they have a 'right' to take cutting out of botanic gardens.
"Warren" wrote in message
et...
Alex Olson wrote:

How is it possible that such a ridiculous law can be enforced country
wide in the United States?


You mean a country based on capitalism?

One of the hallmarks of our country is that people are entitled to
profit from their labors. The incentive to produce new hybrids isn't the
possibility of being able to name it. The incentive is profit.

If there is any country in the world where this would be the law of the
land, it would be the United States. I'm sure there are plenty of
communist countries where the labors of others are taken by the masses
with no compensation. Perhaps you can go there and rip-off the breeders
of new hybrids -- if you can find any.

But then again the new way of life in this country is to rip other
people off. Download illegal MP3's. It's okay. Propagate trademarked
hybrids? Who cares. Rip-off the people who worked hard to produce them.
After all, they're a "corporation", and not real people trying to feed
their families.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/

Salty Thumb wrote:

As I understand it, musicians sign record contracts and the record
company
pays them a set amount. The record company then sells the music at a
fixed
price (that is until they got busted) and keeps the profits. So in
essence, people who download illegal mp3s are really ripping off the
record
company, whose executives and share holders, let me tell you, worked
really
hard to feed their families.

You only partially understand it. Just as an actor can be paid a
flat-rate for appearing in a movie, or get a percentage of the gross or
net, a musician can be paid any way they can negotiate. Acts that don't
expect to sell very much may be smart to take a flat-rate, and let the
record company take all the risk, but that's certainly not the way all
artists are paid. Even so, the people who work for the record companies
go to work each day to feed their families as well, and the stock
holders are risking their money. Your 401k or pension fund may even have
an investment in the music companies, so part of your money is being
risked.

However the point is that people involved in the production and
distribution of anything, including hybrid plants, should be allowed to
profit from their labors, and not be ripped-off by people who think it's
okay to steal just because there's a corporation involved. How the
profits are distributed among the people involved in the production and
distribution is irrelevant, and it's distasteful to hear people imply
that it's morally okay for them to rip-off people based on how they
understand the way the profits are divided.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/