So is that crackpot Jerry Baker your "master gardener"?

A vinegar in water solution will not kill weeds. Mixed with olive oil, it
would make a nice vinaigrette for your tossed salad but that's about all.

Maybe if you used glacial acetic acid (no water at all) it might work but
that is an extremely toxic and volatile chemical for you to be playing with.


Chelsea Christenson wrote in message
...
My master gardener suggested a solution of vinegar and water for
killing the weeds that come up between the bricks in my patio.
Unfortunately, she's on vacation now, so I can't ask her: what is the
correct ratio of vinegar to water?

So is that crackpot Jerry Baker your "master gardener"?

A vinegar in water solution will not kill weeds. Mixed with olive oil, it
would make a nice vinaigrette for your tossed salad but that's about all.

Maybe if you used glacial acetic acid (no water at all) it might work but
that is an extremely toxic and volatile chemical for you to be playing with.


Chelsea Christenson wrote in message
...
My master gardener suggested a solution of vinegar and water for
killing the weeds that come up between the bricks in my patio.
Unfortunately, she's on vacation now, so I can't ask her: what is the
correct ratio of vinegar to water?

"Cereoid-UR12yo" wrote in
.com:

So is that crackpot Jerry Baker your "master gardener"?

A vinegar in water solution will not kill weeds. Mixed with olive oil,
it would make a nice vinaigrette for your tossed salad but that's
about all.

Maybe if you used glacial acetic acid (no water at all) it might work
but that is an extremely toxic and volatile chemical for you to be
playing with.


Chelsea Christenson wrote in message
...
My master gardener suggested a solution of vinegar and water
for
killing the weeds that come up between the bricks in my patio.
Unfortunately, she's on vacation now, so I can't ask her: what is
the correct ratio of vinegar to water?


I don't know what the "correct" concentration is, but you might want to
start with 1 tablespoon vinegar to 1 quart water. (I could be way off).

Use more or less depending on how dilute your vinegar is to start with.

The idea is to make your own mini-acid rain storm, vinegar being acetic
acid. I also don't know if this will kill your weeds, but having used this
method, I know it sure will make them turn brown fast on a hot day.

-- Salty

"Cereoid-UR12yo" wrote in
.com:

So is that crackpot Jerry Baker your "master gardener"?

A vinegar in water solution will not kill weeds. Mixed with olive oil,
it would make a nice vinaigrette for your tossed salad but that's
about all.

Maybe if you used glacial acetic acid (no water at all) it might work
but that is an extremely toxic and volatile chemical for you to be
playing with.


Chelsea Christenson wrote in message
...
My master gardener suggested a solution of vinegar and water
for
killing the weeds that come up between the bricks in my patio.
Unfortunately, she's on vacation now, so I can't ask her: what is
the correct ratio of vinegar to water?


I don't know what the "correct" concentration is, but you might want to
start with 1 tablespoon vinegar to 1 quart water. (I could be way off).

Use more or less depending on how dilute your vinegar is to start with.

The idea is to make your own mini-acid rain storm, vinegar being acetic
acid. I also don't know if this will kill your weeds, but having used this
method, I know it sure will make them turn brown fast on a hot day.

-- Salty

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:56:16 GMT, Salty Thumb
wrote:


I don't know what the "correct" concentration is, but you might want to
start with 1 tablespoon vinegar to 1 quart water. (I could be way off).

You are way off. Why make the suggestion without knowing anything about it?
So, if this person asked how to use orthene, you'd make a recommendation without
knowing the correct concentration? Sorry if I sound ****y, but gee wiz, why
make any recommendation.

The correct dilution is NOT TO DILUTE it and to buy 20% by volume acidity
vinegar sold in horticultural centers. It's not the kind you use for food.


Use more or less depending on how dilute your vinegar is to start with.

Oh, that so much better. Sheesh.

The idea is to make your own mini-acid rain storm, vinegar being acetic
acid. I also don't know if this will kill your weeds, but having used this
method, I know it sure will make them turn brown fast on a hot day.

-- Salty

Acid rain is vinegar? Wow, learn something new every day.

animaux wrote in
:

I don't know what the "correct" concentration is, but you might want
to start with 1 tablespoon vinegar to 1 quart water. (I could be way
off).

You are way off. Why make the suggestion without knowing anything
about it? So, if this person asked how to use orthene, you'd make a
recommendation without knowing the correct concentration? Sorry if I
sound ****y, but gee wiz, why make any recommendation.

Let's see, first Meteor-man responds saying it will not work at all.
Second, I say it will. This is why I bothered to make a recommendation.
Third, if nobody else chimes in (although I anticipated someone would), I
have given a starting point and a disclaimer. Fourth, there two ways to
kill a plant. You can 1) completely destroy it or 2) gradually and
repeatedly injure it until it exhausts it's ability to repair itself.

If someone had asked how to use orthene, I would have told her to read the
directions on the label.

As for knowing nothing about it, I do know *something* about it, although
some may consider the modicum of information *nothing* at all. As I have
implied, I've have used vinegar as a herbicide. This vinegar was ordinary
household vinegar from a *grocery store*.

The correct dilution is NOT TO DILUTE it and to buy 20% by volume
acidity vinegar sold in horticultural centers. It's not the kind you
use for food.

If want to go out and buy 20% vinegar I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Use more or less depending on how dilute your vinegar is to start
with.

Oh, that so much better. Sheesh.

Thank you peanut gallery.

The idea is to make your own mini-acid rain storm, vinegar being
acetic acid. I also don't know if this will kill your weeds, but
having used this method, I know it sure will make them turn brown fast
on a hot day.

Acid rain is vinegar? Wow, learn something new every day.

I never said acid rain is vinegar. I said vinegar is acetic acid. If you
want to be picky: vinegar is a water diluted form of acetic acid.

P.S. If you have hard water or even regular municipal water that is
usually slightly basic, use more vinegar or substitute rain water when
diluting the vinegar.

P.S. What do you base this suggestion on? Just curious.

I don't remember what my original sources are, but here's a start. If I
recall correctly hard water is water with calcium or other group II
element cation in a water suspension. From high school chemistry, the
electronegativity of group II elements weakly dissociates water into
hydrogen ions and hydroxyl radicals. Binding the hydroxyl radicals with
calcium ions increases the hydrogen ion concentration. By definition pH is
the log10 of the molar hydrogen ion concentration. pH higher than 7
indicates a basic solution. Basic solution and acidic solutions neutralize
each other, ergo hard water will reduce the acidity of vinegar. Of
course, I could be wrong.

Municipal water:
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p...water&ei=UTF-8
read link #4
"... in pH. Iowa City's current drinking water has an average pH of 7.7
mg/L and an average of 175 mg/L of "

Of course it doesn't prove anything except that there exists a municipal
water supply with a slightly basic pH, if you trust that source. You can
look for more if you've got the inclination.

Acidity of rain water:
http://ks.essortment.com/acidraineffect_rqmz.htm

Paragraph 9 or so:
"If there were no pollution, the rain would still be acidic. Natural
rainfall has a pH of around 6.0. "

Again, only if you trust that source.

I'll leave it to someone else explain the mechanism that vinegar uses to
cause defoliation.

-- Salty

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:56:16 GMT, Salty Thumb
wrote:


I don't know what the "correct" concentration is, but you might want to
start with 1 tablespoon vinegar to 1 quart water. (I could be way off).

You are way off. Why make the suggestion without knowing anything about
it?
So, if this person asked how to use orthene, you'd make a recommendation
without
knowing the correct concentration? Sorry if I sound ****y, but gee wiz,
why
make any recommendation.

Way off from the normal recommendation for fast results, yes. However I
am not sure the suggestion was that far off. In addition it was properly
identified with a "I don't know what the "correct" concentration is.." which
makes it a lot better than many responces in newsgroups in my book.


The correct dilution is NOT TO DILUTE it and to buy 20% by volume acidity
vinegar sold in horticultural centers. It's not the kind you use for
food.


Use more or less depending on how dilute your vinegar is to start with.

Oh, that so much better. Sheesh.

It sure made sence to me, maybe you were just having a bad day?


The idea is to make your own mini-acid rain storm, vinegar being acetic
acid. I also don't know if this will kill your weeds, but having used
this
method, I know it sure will make them turn brown fast on a hot day.

-- Salty

Acid rain is vinegar? Wow, learn something new every day.

You are wrong with this comment. It is the acidity that is the active
factor in using vinegar. The effects of acid rain would be the same with
acetic acid as the usual components of acidic rain, which if I remember
correctly is sulfuric acid.

I would rate Salty's suggestion as good while yours contributed almost
nothing to the question.



--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Salty Thumb wrote:
animaux wrote:

I don't know what the "correct" concentration is, but you might want
to start with 1 tablespoon vinegar to 1 quart water. (I could be way
off).

You are way off. Why make the suggestion without knowing anything
about it? So, if this person asked how to use orthene, you'd make a
recommendation without knowing the correct concentration? Sorry if
I
sound ****y, but gee wiz, why make any recommendation.

Let's see, first Meteor-man responds saying it will not work at all.
Second, I say it will. This is why I bothered to make a
recommendation.
Third, if nobody else chimes in (although I anticipated someone
would), I
have given a starting point and a disclaimer. Fourth, there two ways
to
kill a plant. You can 1) completely destroy it or 2) gradually and
repeatedly injure it until it exhausts it's ability to repair itself.

Let's see. Household vinegar is only about 4% acid. Now you're going to
take 1 tablespoon, and put it in a quart of water. That will dilute it
down to about 0.05%. My spit has a higher acid concentration! By the
time I "gradually and repeatedly injure" a weed that way, it'll have set
seed. It won't even think I'm injuring it. It'll think I'm watering it!

You were way off. Period. My guess is that you are unaware that
household vinegar is already diluted down to about 4%, and you were
thinking of adding 1 tablespoon of acid to a quart of water. But it sure
won't do any good to put a tablespoon of vinegar into a quart of water!

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

"Warren" wrote in
et:

Let's see. Household vinegar is only about 4% acid. Now you're going
to take 1 tablespoon, and put it in a quart of water. That will dilute
it down to about 0.05%. My spit has a higher acid concentration! By
the time I "gradually and repeatedly injure" a weed that way, it'll
have set seed. It won't even think I'm injuring it. It'll think I'm
watering it!

You were way off. Period. My guess is that you are unaware that
household vinegar is already diluted down to about 4%, and you were
thinking of adding 1 tablespoon of acid to a quart of water. But it
sure won't do any good to put a tablespoon of vinegar into a quart of
water!

Okay, so I was wrong about the concentration. That is why words like "I
could be way off" were included.

Here is the correct weed control recipe that I was thinking of,
guaranteed to work - for one quart water and *five* tablespoons vinegar:

1) Boil the water
2) Put one tablespoon of vinegar each in 5 different 8 oz cups
3) Add some calcium rich material to the water (egg shells usually work
best)
4) After five minutes pour the water and shells in to the 5 five
cups
5) Add a food coloring tablet to each of the five cups
6) Stir
7) sprinkle the crushed and colored shells and water around the offending
weeds
8) Spin around 5 times and chant:

Celestial Bunny Bunny you're not funny,
But Hungry, hungry, I'll agree,
Here on earth, there's too much turf
I promise to do your feeding if you do my weeding

9) If you have performed the ceremony correctly, a plague of rabbits will
come by and eat the offending weeds
10) If no rabbits appear, you will need to cover the offending area and
anything within a 5 meter radius with a solid black tarp for 5 years to
show your displeasure.

-- Salty

P.S. if it turns out you don't have enough water, please call the
measurement police.

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:09:15 GMT, Salty Thumb
wrote:

That is why words like "I
could be way off" were included.

So then why comment?


"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson

Because you are a dimwit!!!!


des-weges wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:09:15 GMT, Salty Thumb
wrote:

That is why words like "I
could be way off" were included.

So then why comment?


"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been
hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:17:16 -0700, des-weges wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:09:15 GMT, Salty Thumb
wrote:

That is why words like "I
could be way off" were included.

So then why comment?

Because people have to chime in when other don't. At least that's the latter
translation and back stepping I got in response.

I will say this again. The only vinegar which works for such a purpose is
horticultural and it is sold in gallon jugs, labeled 20% acid by volume. The
rest is blather.

animaux wrote in
:

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:17:16 -0700, des-weges
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:09:15 GMT, Salty Thumb
wrote:

That is why words like "I could be way off" were included.

So then why comment?

Because people have to chime in when other don't. At least that's the
latter translation and back stepping I got in response.

It should be evident to anyone who's been following your responses how poor
your reading skills are. Leave the translating to people who are educated,
not merely trained, as you appear to be.

I will say this again. The only vinegar which works for such a purpose
is horticultural and it is sold in gallon jugs, labeled 20% acid by
volume. The rest is blather.

Yes, of course, lower concentrations obviously won't work (proof by
Proclaimation) and obviously higher concentrations won't work (proof by
Hand Waving). The magic number is 20% and the gallon jug must be
especially consecrated by a Green Pixie who will scribble 'horticultural'
on the label. In fact every single person who has said they've had success
with *ordinary* household vinegar is a liar, moron or shroom-eater. [Since
it's not clear how you will "translate" this paragraph, here's a hint -
S-A-R-C-A-S-M.]

Thankfully, there are still people who can distinguish between 'blather'
and vomit from a corporate white paper.

- Salty

P.S. And, yeah, if you don't like people chiming in, I suggest you move to
.... no wait ... just go join the We-Publi-Can't Party.

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:17:16 -0700, des-weges
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:09:15 GMT, Salty Thumb
wrote:

That is why words like "I
could be way off" were included.

So then why comment?

Because people have to chime in when other don't. At least that's the
latter
translation and back stepping I got in response.

I will say this again. The only vinegar which works for such a purpose is
horticultural and it is sold in gallon jugs, labeled 20% acid by volume.
The
rest is blather.

Ordinary, cheap-as-chips household white vinegar works well on
impossible-to-pull weeds between the paving slabs in the hot sun in my
experience. No blather needed.

Apparently, you have never poured vinegar on a weed. If you had you would have found the weed died quickly. Anyone can do an experiment. Take a small cup of vinegar and pour it on a few isolated weeds. Be careful not to pour it on any grass or plants you like; they will all die! The question is always how much vinegar to dilute with water. That I cannot answer to because I don't measure when I blend. Experiment with different strengths.