On 30/11/2015 7:00 AM, John McGaw wrote:
On 11/25/2015 4:43 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 25/11/2015 2:38 AM, songbird wrote:
Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
...
What do you mean "not very good"? Are you saying that the first rains
caught
in rain barrels should NOT be saved for irrigating plants? Or?

many rain capture systems include some sort of
arrangement for rejecting the first number of
gallons of water so that contamination (from
dust, bird droppings, etc.) is reduced. when
using the water for a garden most of what is
there isn't harmful anyways so i'd not worry.
the concern is more geared towards those in areas
of harmful dust fallout and those who are using
the water for drinking, cooking or other house-
hold uses.

A friend of ours used to have a first flush diverter on his household
rainwater tank (cistern in USian) but took it off after a year or so
because he found it flushed away too much water and a short passing
shower
would result in his not getting any water into his tank (cistern). And
dust or crap settles to the bottom of the tank in a very short time
and is
not a worry until it becomes time to desludge the tank. the tank
(cistern)
was to supply water for all his household use so the loss of any water
was
a problem.

I'd have to disagree a bit with the cistern vs. tank and the 'Usian'
nature of either. Cistern is very much in long-term usage in the UK; it
was common when plumbing became popular in old homes to have a cistern
constructed in the uppermost reaches of the attic to provide a head of
water. The local council-provided water was likely to be at low pressure
and volume and keeping some in your own cistern could alleviate both
problems. It is even true that the 'tank' of a flush toilet is referred
to as a cistern in the UK. If you get right down to the meaning of the
words themselves, a cistern is a container with no top while a tank is
enclosed all around.

I'm not in the UK. The only use of the word "cistern" here is the one
that sits on top of the toilet.

Since I've never managed to identify any poster here who is from the UK,
(other than a few strays who post once using gardenbanter) I don't
bother to try to post so that Brits can understand what I am saying. I
do try to make sure that the majority of posters (Americans) CAN
understand. I won't bother in future.

On Saturday, November 28, 2015 at 1:41:45 PM UTC-8, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 29/11/2015 7:50 AM, songbird wrote:
it
is a good idea to switch to products which can be
biodegraded (often via what is called a reed bed)

Prince Charles has a reed bed sewage treatment set up installed at his
home, Highgrove.

BTW, for those people who enjoy gardening books, the book on his garden
is called "The garden at Highgrove". This is not a cheap book and I
debated long and hard with myself as to whether I should bother to pay
the money for a book on the garden of a rich royal whose lifestyle is
nothing like mine or even in the same country or in the same gardneing
conditions. I'm so glad that I did eventually buy it as it's real eye
candy and his attitude to his garden resonates with me. He even ignored
advice given to him by that guru Sir Roy Strong because it didn't fit
into what he wanted to do.

I keep pulling it off the shelves when I need a bit of inspiration.
Wonderful book, even more wonderful garden (this is about another book
by him but there are good pics here of his garden):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-new-book.html
\
Thanks for that wonderful Chanukah gift. I could almost smell the flowers in those marvelous pictures. Again, many thanks.

(Wonder what kind of king he would have made. Any thoughts?)

HB

On 7/12/2015 1:41 PM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
On Saturday, November 28, 2015 at 1:41:45 PM UTC-8, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 29/11/2015 7:50 AM, songbird wrote:
it
is a good idea to switch to products which can be
biodegraded (often via what is called a reed bed)

Prince Charles has a reed bed sewage treatment set up installed at his
home, Highgrove.

BTW, for those people who enjoy gardening books, the book on his garden
is called "The garden at Highgrove". This is not a cheap book and I
debated long and hard with myself as to whether I should bother to pay
the money for a book on the garden of a rich royal whose lifestyle is
nothing like mine or even in the same country or in the same gardneing
conditions. I'm so glad that I did eventually buy it as it's real eye
candy and his attitude to his garden resonates with me. He even ignored
advice given to him by that guru Sir Roy Strong because it didn't fit
into what he wanted to do.

I keep pulling it off the shelves when I need a bit of inspiration.
Wonderful book, even more wonderful garden (this is about another book
by him but there are good pics here of his garden):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-new-book.html
\
Thanks for that wonderful Chanukah gift.

You're welcome.

I could almost smell the flowers in those marvelous pictures. Again,
many thanks.

(Wonder what kind of king he would have made. Any thoughts?)

I don't think he will ever be king. Sadly. I've always been a Charles
fan even when he was being pilloried by the press due to the expert
manipulations of Dianna. He always seems to be very thoughtful and to
reach conclusions which I've never thought to be at all controversial.
His mother will be a very hard act to follow given how well she has done
since the early 1950s. I suspect William will see the end of the
Monarchy. He is a very different kettle of fish. Despite the nice
exterior, I'm not convinced that he will be a good King.

David E. Ross wrote:
Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
....
After a long period without rain, the public is advised to avoid Pacific
beaches near storm drain outlets. For the same reason, the first rain
on my roof -- even after having my gutters cleaned -- is not very good.

What do you mean "not very good"? Are you saying that the first rains caught
in rain barrels should NOT be saved for irrigating plants? Or?

[...]


If there were recent brush fires dropping ash in your area, the first
rains will be quite alkaline. Our southern California soils are
generally too alkaline already. I am always using sulfur around many
plants in my garden to make the soil more acid.

in my times of reading and wandering around the web and
seeing what people are doing even in tough soil and arid
climates with alkaline soils i keep an eye on:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/31...s0x0:0x0?hl=en

which is a permaculture site in a pretty tough location.
you can see that the surrounding area is mostly devoid of
ground cover of any kind, goats are allowed to graze anything
not protected. there is nothing there for holding what rains
they do get, no organic matter or topsoil with any carbon
content.

yet you can see they've managed to grow trees there and
also veggies. drip irrigation, rainwater harvesting,
some limited deliveries of water perhaps (i'm not sure
exactly what they've done as i've never been there).
composting toilets, recycling all organic wastes back
into the gardens, i'm pretty sure they also keep
chickens and do things with worms.

i have read some articles on the site and some mentions
of having to amend because of the high alkalinity, but this
will change over time.

another thing i've come across in my wandering and watching
videos on restorative agriculture is having someone come from
the other direction (high acidity) and over the years just by
practicing soil conservation techniques and getting plants
to grow and not overdoing the grazing the guy has been able
to get the pH of his fields up from 5.0-5.5 to 6.0-6.5
without ever having to add lime.

my third item of interest is that even in arid climates
where you might not think it would do much good is to put
down surface mulch. eventually the organic materials will
encourage the soil bacteria and fungi and that added
activity will boost soil fertility and water infiltration
and storage capacity.

these are three examples given so that others in tough
climates and hard soil conditions can have some hope and
know that others have been working on this and are seeing
results.


songbird

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 22:55:18 -0500, songbird
wrote:

snip

my third item of interest is that even in arid climates
where you might not think it would do much good is to put
down surface mulch. eventually the organic materials will
encourage the soil bacteria and fungi and that added
activity will boost soil fertility and water infiltration
and storage capacity.

these are three examples given so that others in tough
climates and hard soil conditions can have some hope and
know that others have been working on this and are seeing
results.

Anything is possible, in the Netherlands they're trialling growing
veggies in salty water:
http://www.voanews.com/content/farmi...e/2510044.html