Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and took
a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left the
sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12 miles
away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 17:29:36 -0700, "David E. Ross"
wrote:

Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and took
a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left the
sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12 miles
away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).


How much is a gallon of gas these days in California?

On 10/30/2015 7:27 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 17:29:36 -0700, "David E. Ross"
wrote:

Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and took
a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left the
sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12 miles
away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).


How much is a gallon of gas these days in California?


Along the route I drove, I could get gas at $2.599 per gallon. Since I
used less than a gallon round-trip, my savings on my purchase of gypsum
was greater than the cost of gas. Oh, and I also bought some ranunculus
tubers at the nursery, which I would not have bought at the hardware
store.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 10/30/2015 8:29 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and took
a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left the
sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12 miles
away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).


Same thing happened to me last year with limestone. K-Mart price was
about 4X higher than Lowes.

BTW, since some one asked gas price, it is down below $2/gal here in
Delaware.

In article , "frank says...

On 10/30/2015 8:29 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and took
a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left the
sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12 miles
away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).


Same thing happened to me last year with limestone. K-Mart price was
about 4X higher than Lowes.

BTW, since some one asked gas price, it is down below $2/gal here in
Delaware.

I think it's going to cross that line in Taxachussetts this week--it was
2.00&9/10 Friday. Funny, it's about 20 cents cheaper there than in CT.

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 21:08:59 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article , "frank says...

On 10/30/2015 8:29 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and took
a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left the
sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12 miles
away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).


Same thing happened to me last year with limestone. K-Mart price was
about 4X higher than Lowes.

BTW, since some one asked gas price, it is down below $2/gal here in
Delaware.

I think it's going to cross that line in Taxachussetts this week--it was
2.00&9/10 Friday. Funny, it's about 20 cents cheaper there than in CT.


CT has no income tax. The monies have to come from somewhere.

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 21:08:59 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article , "frank says...

On 10/30/2015 8:29 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and took
a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left the
sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12 miles
away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).


Same thing happened to me last year with limestone. K-Mart price was
about 4X higher than Lowes.

BTW, since some one asked gas price, it is down below $2/gal here in
Delaware.

I think it's going to cross that line in Taxachussetts this week--it was
2.00&9/10 Friday. Funny, it's about 20 cents cheaper there than in CT.


CT has no income tax. The monies have to come from somewhere.

What century do you live in? CT has higher income tax than MA, and has
since the reign of Lowell the Last.

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 15:40:47 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 21:08:59 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article , "frank says...

On 10/30/2015 8:29 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and took
a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left the
sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12 miles
away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).


Same thing happened to me last year with limestone. K-Mart price was
about 4X higher than Lowes.

BTW, since some one asked gas price, it is down below $2/gal here in
Delaware.

I think it's going to cross that line in Taxachussetts this week--it was
2.00&9/10 Friday. Funny, it's about 20 cents cheaper there than in CT.


CT has no income tax. The monies have to come from somewhere.

What century do you live in? CT has higher income tax than MA, and has
since the reign of Lowell the Last.

By golly, I stand corrected. Been a long time since I checked, which
was donkey years ago, when I was debating the move from NY to CT vs
NJ.

David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and
took a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left
the sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12
miles away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).

What effects do you see from applying gypsum? Is it anything obvious? Are repeat
application useful?

On 12/2/2015 7:44 AM, Bob F wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the winter
rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store or lumber
yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and
took a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a senior-citizen
discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be $12+change. I left
the sack at the register and drove to a favorite nursery about 12
miles away. There, I bought a 50-pound sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).

What effects do you see from applying gypsum? Is it anything obvious? Are repeat
application useful?



My soil is very heavy clay. Gypsum supposedly reacts with the clay to
make it porous and thus improve drainage and root growth. I apply a
generous amount annually in the late autumn around my camellias,
azaleas, and liquidambar tree, which seem to thrive. Every two years, I
apply it throughout my garden, using about 250 pounds. Also, when
planting a new plant or bulb, I stir a small amount of gypsum into the
planting hole.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

David E. Ross wrote:
On 12/2/2015 7:44 AM, Bob F wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the
winter rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store
or lumber yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and
took a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a
senior-citizen discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be
$12+change. I left the sack at the register and drove to a
favorite nursery about 12 miles away. There, I bought a 50-pound
sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).

What effects do you see from applying gypsum? Is it anything
obvious? Are repeat application useful?



My soil is very heavy clay. Gypsum supposedly reacts with the clay to
make it porous and thus improve drainage and root growth. I apply a
generous amount annually in the late autumn around my camellias,
azaleas, and liquidambar tree, which seem to thrive. Every two
years, I apply it throughout my garden, using about 250 pounds.
Also, when planting a new plant or bulb, I stir a small amount of
gypsum into the planting hole.

My sister tried one application a year ago on her lawn because of standing
water/sogging ground problems and has really seen little change. I could give
her more (someone else gave me) if it would do any good. Just wondering.

On 12/2/2015 2:36 PM, Bob F wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
On 12/2/2015 7:44 AM, Bob F wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the
winter rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store
or lumber yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and
took a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a
senior-citizen discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be
$12+change. I left the sack at the register and drove to a
favorite nursery about 12 miles away. There, I bought a 50-pound
sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).

What effects do you see from applying gypsum? Is it anything
obvious? Are repeat application useful?



My soil is very heavy clay. Gypsum supposedly reacts with the clay to
make it porous and thus improve drainage and root growth. I apply a
generous amount annually in the late autumn around my camellias,
azaleas, and liquidambar tree, which seem to thrive. Every two
years, I apply it throughout my garden, using about 250 pounds.
Also, when planting a new plant or bulb, I stir a small amount of
gypsum into the planting hole.

My sister tried one application a year ago on her lawn because of standing
water/sogging ground problems and has really seen little change. I could give
her more (someone else gave me) if it would do any good. Just wondering.



If the cause of your sister's problem is from a high water table or very
thin soil over bedrock, gypsum will not help.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 12/2/2015 4:36 PM, Bob F wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
On 12/2/2015 7:44 AM, Bob F wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the
winter rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store
or lumber yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and
took a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a
senior-citizen discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be
$12+change. I left the sack at the register and drove to a
favorite nursery about 12 miles away. There, I bought a 50-pound
sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).

What effects do you see from applying gypsum? Is it anything
obvious? Are repeat application useful?



My soil is very heavy clay. Gypsum supposedly reacts with the clay to
make it porous and thus improve drainage and root growth. I apply a
generous amount annually in the late autumn around my camellias,
azaleas, and liquidambar tree, which seem to thrive. Every two
years, I apply it throughout my garden, using about 250 pounds.
Also, when planting a new plant or bulb, I stir a small amount of
gypsum into the planting hole.

My sister tried one application a year ago on her lawn because of standing
water/sogging ground problems and has really seen little change. I could give
her more (someone else gave me) if it would do any good. Just wondering.



The Myth of Gypsum Magic: Adding gypsum to your yard or garden will
improve soil tilth and plant health
by Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate
Professor, Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State
University

With the exception of arid and coastal regions (where soil salts are
high) and the southeastern United States (where heavy clay soils are
common), gypsum
amendment is just not necessary in non-agricultural areas. Urban
soils are generally amalgamations of subsoils, native and non-native
topsoils, and – in home landscapes – high levels of organic and
non-organic chemical additives. They are also heavily compacted and
layered (and gypsum does not work well on layered soils). In such
landscapes, it is pointless to add yet more chemicals in the form of
gypsum unless you need to increase soil calcium levels. To reduce
compaction and improve aeration in nearly any landscape, application
of an organic mulch is more economically and environmentally sustainable.
http://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/u.../03/gypsum.pdf

What About Gypsum?
By Carl Wilson, Horticulturist with Denver Cooperative Extension
As far as relieving soil compaction, gypsum has no effect. Loosening
soils is a physical process, not a chemical one. The way to break up
tight, clay soils is through adding and mixing in organic amendments.
The amendment holds the clay particles apart creating more space for
the air so critical to plant root growth. It's easy for gardeners
frustrated by hard, clay soils to grasp at anything that sounds like
it might work. With gypsum, the expression "If it sounds too good to
be true, it is too good to be true" applies.
http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopEx...oil/gypsum.htm

Soil Amendments and Practices of Unproven Value
Gypsum (when added to soil to soften clay/loosen compacted soil,
to lower the pH of alkaline soils, to raise the pH of acid soils, or
to treat soil salinity)

Gypsum, which is hydrated calcium sulfate (a low-solubility salt), is
effective in treating sodic soils, which are soils high in
exchangeable sodium. The sodium between soil particles attracts water,
causing the soil to disperse. The dispersed particles seal the soil
surface, reducing infiltration. Addition of gypsum replaces the sodium
on the exchange sites with calcium, which results in flocculation of
the soil particles into soil aggregates. The resultant sodium sulfate
can then be leached out of the soil. Although gypsum does improve
structure in sodic soils, it will not soften clay nor loosen compacted
soil.
http://articles.extension.org/pages/...unproven-value

"David E. Ross" writes:

On 12/2/2015 2:36 PM, Bob F wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
On 12/2/2015 7:44 AM, Bob F wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
Today, I went to buy gypsum to apply to my clay soil before the
winter rains begin. While I never buy plants at a hardware store
or lumber yard, I do buy tools and supplies at such stores.

I went to a nearby hardware store (about 3 miles from my house) and
took a 40-pound sack of gypsum to the register. With a
senior-citizen discount of 5%, the clerk said that it would be
$12+change. I left the sack at the register and drove to a
favorite nursery about 12 miles away. There, I bought a 50-pound
sack of gypsum for under $9.

That is correct: 25% more gypsum for 25% less money. Both were 92%
CaSO4 (calcium sulfate).

What effects do you see from applying gypsum? Is it anything
obvious? Are repeat application useful?

My soil is very heavy clay. Gypsum supposedly reacts with the clay to
make it porous and thus improve drainage and root growth. I apply a
generous amount annually in the late autumn around my camellias,
azaleas, and liquidambar tree, which seem to thrive. Every two
years, I apply it throughout my garden, using about 250 pounds.
Also, when planting a new plant or bulb, I stir a small amount of
gypsum into the planting hole.

My sister tried one application a year ago on her lawn because of standing
water/sogging ground problems and has really seen little change. I could give
her more (someone else gave me) if it would do any good. Just wondering.

If the cause of your sister's problem is from a high water table or very
thin soil over bedrock, gypsum will not help.

Agree.

Plus, I think it would take a long time for the gypsum to reach any clay
under the lawn. We have all clay around here, but the lawn forms about
an inch of black soil on top of the clay.

--
Dan Espen

Moe DeLoughan wrote:
....
The Myth of Gypsum Magic: Adding gypsum to your yard or garden will
improve soil tilth and plant health
by Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate
Professor, Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State
University
....

interesting observations for sure.

as we have minimal funds to buy amendments i've gotten by
in large areas with some simple things. we have clay,
some sand and a hard pan layer from the area being used
for crops and a tree farm.

leveling to keep topsoil and organic materials in place.
growing green manure crops and chopping them back to
encourage worm life (we don't have grazing animals).

if you don't have night crawlers and they aren't
considered an invasive species then it can help to
add them (they'll need some time to get going and
should be introduced in an area where you can
disturb the soil as they normally grow their burrows
as they grow themselves).

takes some time to see results, but the price was
right.


songbird