If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

No matter how carefully you apply glyphosate as the 'weed' dies the
chemical will dissolve into the soil and affect your vegetable plants,
and you when you eat them, if you get any. You can mulch but weeding
crops is always a physical chore; sweat/labor. My garden is 50' X 50'
on the ground, during the growing season I use weed block cloth as
much as possible, the quality grades will last 15-20 years... after
fall tilling I cover every sq in with cloth for winter... saves a
tremendous amount of weeding come spring when weeds emerge
prolifically before the ground is dry enough to work.

On 11/4/2014 6:31 AM, F Murtz wrote:
If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?


There are herbicides that are specific to grass. These are intended to
kill grass without harming other plants.

Go to a nursery or hardware store and read the label. Some kill only
certain kinds of grass.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 04/11/2014 15:48, Brooklyn1 wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

No matter how carefully you apply glyphosate as the 'weed' dies the
chemical will dissolve into the soil and affect your vegetable plants,
and you when you eat them, if you get any.

I am sure that with such specific claims you will be happy to provide
numerous links which support your statements.

--

Jeff

On 11/4/2014 11:29 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 04/11/2014 15:48, Brooklyn1 wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

No matter how carefully you apply glyphosate as the 'weed' dies the
chemical will dissolve into the soil and affect your vegetable plants,
and you when you eat them, if you get any.

I am sure that with such specific claims you will be happy to provide
numerous links which support your statements.


Glyphosate decomposes into harmless residue in 3-5 days after it is
applied.

I generally avoid using glyphosate because it is hard to keep it away
from plants I do not want to kill. That is why I suggested a
grass-specific herbicide to the originator of this thread.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 19:29:10 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 04/11/2014 15:48, Brooklyn1 wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

No matter how carefully you apply glyphosate as the 'weed' dies the
chemical will dissolve into the soil and affect your vegetable plants,
and you when you eat them, if you get any.

I am sure that with such specific claims you will be happy to provide
numerous links which support your statements.

I don't need links to support my own opinions based on many years of
vegetable gardening... you who are who needs links to support your
opinions if you even have any.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:32:24 -0800, "David E. Ross"
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 11:29 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 04/11/2014 15:48, Brooklyn1 wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

No matter how carefully you apply glyphosate as the 'weed' dies the
chemical will dissolve into the soil and affect your vegetable plants,
and you when you eat them, if you get any.

I am sure that with such specific claims you will be happy to provide
numerous links which support your statements.


Glyphosate decomposes into harmless residue in 3-5 days after it is
applied.

You were asked to supply numerous links in support of your claim, I
see none.

On 11/4/2014 2:29 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 04/11/2014 15:48, Brooklyn1 wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

No matter how carefully you apply glyphosate as the 'weed' dies the
chemical will dissolve into the soil and affect your vegetable plants,
and you when you eat them, if you get any.

I am sure that with such specific claims you will be happy to provide
numerous links which support your statements.

For my own edification I clipped this:
Environmental Fate:
Soil

The median half-life of glyphosate in soil has been widely studied;
values between 2 and 197 days have been reported in the literature.7,48
A typical field half-life of 47 days has been suggested.4 Soil and
climate conditions affect glyphosate's persistence in soil.1 See the
text box on Half-life.

The "half-life" is the time required for half of the compound to
break down in the environment.

1 half-life = 50% remaining
2 half-lives = 25% remaining
3 half-lives = 12% remaining
4 half-lives = 6% remaining
5 half-lives = 3% remaining

Half-lives can vary widely based on environmental factors. The
amount of chemical remaining after a half-life will always depend on the
amount of the chemical originally applied. It should be noted that some
chemicals may degrade into compounds of toxicological significance.
Glyphosate is relatively stable to chemical and photo
decomposition.6 The primary pathway of glyphosate degradation is soil
microbial action, which yields AMPA and glyoxylic acid. Both products
are further degraded to carbon dioxide.3
Glyphosate adsorbs tightly to soil. Glyphosate and its residues are
expected to be immobile in soil.6

Water

The median half-life of glyphosate in water varies from a few days
to 91 days.1
Glyphosate did not undergo hydrolysis in buffered solution with a
pH of 3, 6, or 9 at 35 °C. Photodegradation of glyphosate in water was
insignificant under natural light in a pH 5, 7, and 9 buffered
solution.58,59
Glyphosate in the form of the product Roundup® was applied to
aquatic plants in fresh and brackish water. Glyphosate concentrations in
both ponds declined rapidly, although the binding of glyphosate to
bottom sediments depended heavily on the metals in the sediments. If
chelating cations are present, the sediment half-life of glyphosate may
be greatly increased.60
Glyphosate has a low potential to contaminate groundwater due to
its strong adsorptive properties. However, there is potential for
surface water contamination from aquatic uses of glyphosate and soil
erosion.6
Volatilization of glyphosate is not expected to be significant due
to its low vapor pressure.6

Air

Glyphosate and all its salts are very low in volatility with vapor
pressures ranging from 1.84 x 10-7 mmHg to 6.75 x 10-8 mmHg at 25 °C.1,4,8
Glyphosate is stable in air.1

Plants

Glyphosate is absorbed by plant foliage and transported throughout
the plant through the phloem.3 Glyphosate absorption across the cuticle
is moderate, and transport across the cell membrane is slower than for
most herbicides.4 Because glyphosate binds to the soil, plant uptake of
glyphosate from soil is negligible.3
Glyphosate accumulates in meristems, immature leaves, and
underground tissues.4
Very little glyphosate is metabolized in plants, with AMPA as the
only significant degradation product.3
Lettuce, carrots, and barley contained glyphosate residues up to
one year after the soil was treated with 3.71 pounds of glyphosate per
acre.61,62
Glyphosate had a median half-life of 8 to 9 days in leaf litter of
red alder and salmonberry sprayed with Roundup®.48

Indoor

All surface wipe and dust samples collected from five farm
households in Iowa contained detectable levels of glyphosate ranging
from 0.0081-2.7 ng/cm2. In six non-farm households, 28 out of 33 samples
collected contained detectable levels of glyphosate ranging from
0.0012-13 ng/cm2.63

On 05/11/2014 01:57, Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:32:24 -0800, "David E. Ross"
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 11:29 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 04/11/2014 15:48, Brooklyn1 wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

No matter how carefully you apply glyphosate as the 'weed' dies the
chemical will dissolve into the soil and affect your vegetable plants,
and you when you eat them, if you get any.

I am sure that with such specific claims you will be happy to provide
numerous links which support your statements.


Glyphosate decomposes into harmless residue in 3-5 days after it is
applied.

You were asked to supply numerous links in support of your claim, I
see none.

No, I asked /you/ to support your claims, not David to support his.

--

Jeff

On 05/11/2014 01:55, Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 19:29:10 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 04/11/2014 15:48, Brooklyn1 wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

No matter how carefully you apply glyphosate as the 'weed' dies the
chemical will dissolve into the soil and affect your vegetable plants,
and you when you eat them, if you get any.

I am sure that with such specific claims you will be happy to provide
numerous links which support your statements.

I don't need links to support my own opinions based on many years of
vegetable gardening... you who are who needs links to support your
opinions if you even have any.

Oh, I am sorry - I was mistaking your opinions for facts. How silly of
me. Opinions, eh? Not even observations. There's nothing like an
armchair critic for telling others how it really is.

Why don't you read Frank's reply for some facts rather than opinions,
and then refer any future postings on the subject to that reply. Then
the poster can make up their own mind whether or not to use glyphosate
(or anything else for that matter).

--

Jeff

F Murtz wrote:
If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

is this a current problem or a hypothetical
future problem?

i would not use glyphosate for any application
near veggies or otherwise.

it isn't benign and is persisting and accumulating
in spite of what the manufacturer claims.

if the grass infestation is minor pull them out
or dig them out (making sure to get all the roots),
if you're able to consider painting each weed you
should be able to pull the weeds out, it will
probably be much faster.

if it is major, trim off as much of the green stuff
as you can and then smother it with a few layers
of cardboard and mulch, absolutely no light or gaps
can be left because that is all the grass needs and
believe me it will find a way through.

raised beds on or near a grassy area should be
set up properly to prevent grass incursions. weed
barrier fabric underneath, keeping the edges neatly
trimmed (don't point your mower chute at the gardens,
don't string trim knocking grass seeds into the
garden, etc.). often it is better to extend the
weed barrier out from the raised bed and to mulch
that area also making it less likely for grass to
be near the gardens.

also, make sure when you add organic materials to
the raised beds that it is properly composted or
certified to be weed/grass seed free. cow or horse
manure may not be composted well enough, same thing
with grass clippings sucked up by lawn mowers (never
use this stuff unless you want a lot of weeds in
your gardens, it must be hot pile composted first).
i often bury things in the gardens, but before i do
that i make sure it isn't full of seeds and if it
has roots i make sure those roots are well dried out
so they cannot resprout.


songbird

On 11/4/2014 9:48 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

No matter how carefully you apply glyphosate as the 'weed' dies the
chemical will dissolve into the soil

Glyphosate is deactivated upon contact with soil, idiot.

To the OP: Glyphosate applied directly to the plants you wish to kill
is fine. I find it simpler to apply it by hand. I put a heavy
plastic/rubber/nitrile glove on my hand, cover that with a cheap
cotton glove, and dip it into a bowl containing glyphosate. Then I
grab the weed with the gloved hand and stroke it. It gets a good
application without dripping or runoff. When I'm done, the gloves go
into the trash.

On 11/4/2014 7:55 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

I don't need links to support my own opinions based on many years of
vegetable gardening... you who are who needs links to support your
opinions if you even have any.


If you're going to provide advice, you need to be able to support it
with facts. You're entitled to provide opinions, but those should be
labeled as such.

ongbird wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

is this a current problem or a hypothetical
future problem?

i would not use glyphosate for any application
near veggies or otherwise.

it isn't benign and is persisting and accumulating
in spite of what the manufacturer claims.

if the grass infestation is minor pull them out
or dig them out (making sure to get all the roots),
if you're able to consider painting each weed you
should be able to pull the weeds out, it will
probably be much faster.

if it is major, trim off as much of the green stuff
as you can and then smother it with a few layers
of cardboard and mulch, absolutely no light or gaps
can be left because that is all the grass needs and
believe me it will find a way through.

raised beds on or near a grassy area should be
set up properly to prevent grass incursions. weed
barrier fabric underneath, keeping the edges neatly
trimmed (don't point your mower chute at the gardens,
don't string trim knocking grass seeds into the
garden, etc.). often it is better to extend the
weed barrier out from the raised bed and to mulch
that area also making it less likely for grass to
be near the gardens.

also, make sure when you add organic materials to
the raised beds that it is properly composted or
certified to be weed/grass seed free. cow or horse
manure may not be composted well enough, same thing
with grass clippings sucked up by lawn mowers (never
use this stuff unless you want a lot of weeds in
your gardens, it must be hot pile composted first).
i often bury things in the gardens, but before i do
that i make sure it isn't full of seeds and if it
has roots i make sure those roots are well dried out
so they cannot resprout.

All excellent suggestions. However even taking every precaution weeds
will come/gardening is work. Also I once had the not so bright idea
to cover large sections of my garden with cardboard and to leave it
over winter... made a wonderful home for voles... among other plants
they ate the roots on my blueberry bushes and rug junipers... got all
the blueberries to heal but for three, the once gorgeous rug junipers
are no more. For mulching a vegetable garden I strongly suggest weed
block cloth, voles don't seem to find it attractive to make their
homes, but they love cardboard and they also like wood chips
especially pine bark nuggets. Once the subteranean critters establish
a home they don't like to move and I refuse to use poison... sometimes
pouring ordinary household ammonia into their entries repels them but
not permanently.
These work very well for me:
http://www.amazon.com/Sweeneys-9014-.../dp/B0013E3TXC
I have four in my vegetable garden and a half dozen around my house
amongst the foundation plantings, they've been working unfailingly for
nigh on seven years... I think the solar version is a lot better than
changing batterys. They don't recommend leaving them in the ground
where freezing and snow occurs but I do with no problem, I just push
them in so that 3" extends above ground. Considering how long they
last and how well they work $20 per is cheap.

On 11/5/2014 12:39 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
ongbird wrote:
F Murtz wrote:

If I have some raised gardens with vegies in them and grass weeds start
growing can I carefully paint the weed with glyphosate without affecting
the vegies?

is this a current problem or a hypothetical
future problem?

i would not use glyphosate for any application
near veggies or otherwise.

it isn't benign and is persisting and accumulating
in spite of what the manufacturer claims.

if the grass infestation is minor pull them out
or dig them out (making sure to get all the roots),
if you're able to consider painting each weed you
should be able to pull the weeds out, it will
probably be much faster.

if it is major, trim off as much of the green stuff
as you can and then smother it with a few layers
of cardboard and mulch, absolutely no light or gaps
can be left because that is all the grass needs and
believe me it will find a way through.

raised beds on or near a grassy area should be
set up properly to prevent grass incursions. weed
barrier fabric underneath, keeping the edges neatly
trimmed (don't point your mower chute at the gardens,
don't string trim knocking grass seeds into the
garden, etc.). often it is better to extend the
weed barrier out from the raised bed and to mulch
that area also making it less likely for grass to
be near the gardens.

also, make sure when you add organic materials to
the raised beds that it is properly composted or
certified to be weed/grass seed free. cow or horse
manure may not be composted well enough, same thing
with grass clippings sucked up by lawn mowers (never
use this stuff unless you want a lot of weeds in
your gardens, it must be hot pile composted first).
i often bury things in the gardens, but before i do
that i make sure it isn't full of seeds and if it
has roots i make sure those roots are well dried out
so they cannot resprout.

All excellent suggestions. However even taking every precaution weeds
will come/gardening is work. Also I once had the not so bright idea
to cover large sections of my garden with cardboard and to leave it
over winter... made a wonderful home for voles... among other plants
they ate the roots on my blueberry bushes and rug junipers... got all
the blueberries to heal but for three, the once gorgeous rug junipers
are no more. For mulching a vegetable garden I strongly suggest weed
block cloth, voles don't seem to find it attractive to make their
homes, but they love cardboard and they also like wood chips
especially pine bark nuggets. Once the subteranean critters establish
a home they don't like to move and I refuse to use poison... sometimes
pouring ordinary household ammonia into their entries repels them but
not permanently.
These work very well for me:
http://www.amazon.com/Sweeneys-9014-.../dp/B0013E3TXC
I have four in my vegetable garden and a half dozen around my house
amongst the foundation plantings, they've been working unfailingly for
nigh on seven years... I think the solar version is a lot better than
changing batterys.

I hate to burst your bubble but the above mentioned devices use 3 D
batteries that must be changed every so often.