"John McGaw" wrote in message
Advice to anyone wanting mighty oaks -- plant a couple of acorns in each
location where you want one. Wait a year or two and then cull the
extra(s).

"Farm1" wrote:
That might work where you live, but you would be the exception rather than
the rule. We have to make sure we water them (it's way too dry for young
oaks to survive without that), put tree guards aorund them when they are
small (or the hares eat them), and make sure they are well protected by
stock proof fences (or the kangaroos decimate them or the cows eat them).

John my also not be paying attention to the difference between being in
a forest or forest-edge-like environment (where trees will sprout and
grow on their own easily) and being in a non-forested environment.
Trees, and lack of trees, affect the environment they are in, (and the
microclimate near them.) If you get a big enough block of oaks (or mixed
woods) going, (ie, go beyond windbreaks to a woodlot) they might well
reach a point of self-seeding successfully; or really fat parrots.

I don't know how it's going, but there was some notable success decades
ago with planting trees (probably not oaks) on the edge of the sahara
desert as a means of reversing its spread, and altering the microclimate
to a more hospitable one for growing other things, not having the soil
blow away, etc. "great green wall" appears to be a
continuation/expansion of that idea. The initial trees are, naturally,
going to need some support/care.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

"David E. Ross" wrote in message
...
On 4/28/12 6:33 PM, Farm1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote in message
...
On 4/27/12 10:35 PM, Farm1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote in message
...
On 4/27/12 1:07 PM, karamonde wrote:
Hello everyone!

First of all let me say that the anti-bot filter made it hard for ME!
Especially the "type the 6 digits or letters you see in the box" - I
couldn't see most of them!

Anyway, the question I have is this: I picked up ~15 acorns last
October
from 2 oaks near my house and planted them in a flowerpot, somewhere
mid
December I decided to dig around them and check for roots - by gently
testing whether the acorns were loose or not. Turns out that 7 of
them
had rooted, of those 3 made it to oak seedlings which are now ~20cm
tall
each and starting to leaf. The plants were outside throughout the
winter
and until now with the exception of 10 days that I was away and
brought
them in the house to avoid drying out (it was quite hot), now since I
put them back outside their leaves drooped. Originally I thought that
their leaves may be too heavy for them and that nature will take its
course, however last night I put them back in the house to shield
from
very high winds and rain and in 24 hours their leaves have perked up
almost perpendicular to the stem.

Is this normal? Could it be caused by the cold that we are having
this
week? Am I confusing them by alternating temperature between indoors
and
outdoors?

I am attaching a photograph from last Saturday to illustrate what I
mean, the plant at the back has been the faster grower, I think I got
two species here, Q. robur (the red/brown coloured leaves) and Q.
petraea.

A friend who also grew oaks years ago said "You're worrying too much,
just leave them outside - they look fine".

Comments?


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See my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_oak_acorn.html.

David you say that your oak is 28 years old and in 'recent' years it's
dropped acorns. How 'recent' is 'recent'? We have oaks of at least 4
different types that would be less than 10 years old dropping acorns.
Is
that type of oak slow to form and drop acorns or does that just apply
to
oaks in your area?



It was 28 years old in 2004, the last time the page was updated. It is
now approaching 36 years.

It dropped acorns before 2004.
In recent years, it has dropped acorns of its own. I started two
seedlings from this tree. They are now large saplings.
That is, by 2004 I had already picked up acorns, sprouted them, and
nursed them to saplings in 5 gallon cans. Given how long that takes and
the fact that I did not initially do anything with the acorns it
dropped, the tree may have started dropping acorns at 20 years.

Wow. That is slow! Or perhaps mine are just precocious trees - but the
two
I am thinking of that are dropping acorns are both differerent types of
oaks
so I dont' know how that would apply to both types - must og out and
check
the other two types.

My oak is a valley white oak (Quercus lobata).

Ahh - will readup on it.

These are slow to mature
and then live 200 or more years.

To mature = to grow?



To start declining.

OK. I thought by slow to mature you must mean slow to start growing and thus
producing acorns.

I was sure I'd read somewhere that in the UK oaks are 300 years in the
growing, 300 years in the living and then 300 years in the declining. I'd
be happy if we got 50 years growing, 50 years living and 50 years declining.
That'd see me out by a long number of years.

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
"John McGaw" wrote in message
Advice to anyone wanting mighty oaks -- plant a couple of acorns in
each
location where you want one. Wait a year or two and then cull the
extra(s).

"Farm1" wrote:
That might work where you live, but you would be the exception rather
than
the rule. We have to make sure we water them (it's way too dry for young
oaks to survive without that), put tree guards aorund them when they are
small (or the hares eat them), and make sure they are well protected by
stock proof fences (or the kangaroos decimate them or the cows eat them).

John my also not be paying attention to the difference between being in
a forest or forest-edge-like environment (where trees will sprout and
grow on their own easily) and being in a non-forested environment.

That is a very good point. It's one the Permaculturists keep making and one
of whihc I keep losing sight utnil I'm reminded of it (again and again and
again)

Trees, and lack of trees, affect the environment they are in, (and the
microclimate near them.) If you get a big enough block of oaks (or mixed
woods) going, (ie, go beyond windbreaks to a woodlot) they might well
reach a point of self-seeding successfully; or really fat parrots.

:-)) I say, 'a pox on the parrots' (fat or thin). We have too many of too
many varieties of parrots. If they didn't eat my fruit or seeds such as
acorns or other stuff I'd like to let to get to maturity, I might enjoy
their presence and antics.

I don't know how it's going, but there was some notable success decades
ago with planting trees (probably not oaks) on the edge of the sahara
desert as a means of reversing its spread, and altering the microclimate
to a more hospitable one for growing other things, not having the soil
blow away, etc. "great green wall" appears to be a
continuation/expansion of that idea. The initial trees are, naturally,
going to need some support/care.

Interesting. I know here that tree planting amongst farmers/graziers has
now become very popular because it's such and aid in local climate
mitigation (by which I meant that it's cooler, warmer, more civilised to
live amongst tree sheltered land).

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Farm1" wrote:

"Brooklyn1" Gravesend1 wrote in message
news
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 15:55:53 +0000, karamonde
wrote:
John McGaw;957266 Wrote:

Advice to anyone wanting mighty oaks -- plant a couple of acorns in
each
location where you want one. Wait a year or two and then cull the
extra(s).
Wait a few decades. No other attention should be required if your
climate
is suitable for oaks in the first place.

Well given that I am extremely fond of this particular tree I did
decide
to plant some and see what happens. Turns out that watching things grow
is far far more enjoyable than I ever imagined.

I have also planted some english yew seeds: picked the berries, cleaned
them, stored them in the fridge for 2 months and then planted. Nothing
has happened yet though, I hear that yews are a bit moody and take
their
time, they might sprout or they might not. Next year I think I'll just
collect more!


Unless it's a special variety that you can't find at a plant nursery
or you are growing a farm that you're leaving to your heirs planting
hardwood trees from seed is very silly, especially oak trees...
seedlings (1st 5 years) grow relatively fast, saplings (2nd 5 years)
slow down a lot, after that oak tree growth slows to a crawl... unless
you are rather young (teenager) you'll likely be very old or dead
before you will sit in its shade.

I can sit in the shade of at least 2 of our oaks that are about 10 years
old. We couldn't get a big party sheltered but certainly we two can sit
in
their shade.

I strongly suggest planting the
largest sapling you can afford...

That advice is quite the reverse to my experience and that of most
gardeners
I know. Planting tube stock is far better in terms of producing quick
and
healthy growth.

In fact just recently in this ng there was advice given to someone about
planting a hedge. Those who I'd rate as better gardeners all told the
person to plant small plants rather than plants in '5 gallon' containers.


the typical 10 year old oak tree
sapling will be about 8'tall and 1 1/2" caliper...

Mine would be much bigger than that - more like 15 ft or even more.

and you'll still
need to wait like thirty more years before you can sit in its shade.
Planting an acorn you lose ten years of growth and really gain
nothing...

Sheldon that is just not so.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know
they shall never sit in."
- Greek

Actually I've seen that as being a Japanese poem (don't expect me to get the
lines right):
"A man truly understands the meaning of life when he plants a shade tree
under which he knows he will not sit."

aother I like is:
"The morning glory twines around the well bucket and so I lack water".

I like these two and they reflect where I stand.