Hi!

We are two guys from the southeast of Norway (A place called Asker, not far from Oslo) planning to convert our garden lawn into a much more (hopefully) productive permaculture style garden! It's not a particularly large space, around 60 m^2. We are complete beginners and have no practical knowledge whatsoever. We do have a certain amount om theoretical knowledge from reading and watching vids but we need some support from you guys!

So here are a bunch of questions, if you have any tips to give us about a few of them or even all of them, it would be much appreciated!



1.REMOVE LAWN OR SHEET MULCH ON TOP?

How should we deal with the lawn? Is it a good idea to dig up the lawn cover and start a mulch bed or even just start planting straight into the bare soil with mulch on top, OR should we rather just do a sheet mulch on top of the lawn and let the lawn decompose underneath over time? Is there any risk of the lawn coming through the sheet mulch and would it in that case be better to get rid of the lawn alltogether? We might try out both techniques but any input from you guys on this would be great!

2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond whats good?

3. TILL THE SOIL?

The soil here underneath the lawn is quite compact and with a lot of clay especially as you go deeper. There's also a lot of big rocks. If we plant something straight in the soil, is it advisable to till the soil first to improve soil structure and aeration? Or would such tilling destroy the humus/microbial layer in the topsoil? Or do we do this just once as we start it up and then leave it? Again, what about soil compacting due to heavy snow?

4. COMPOST SOIL VS WILD FOREST SOIL

Whats the difference between composted soil and soil from the forest floor? Do we have to buy ready compost soil, or could we just go out in the forest behind our house and grab some soil from there to use in our garden?

5. COMPOST SYSTEM

We are going to start up a hot composting system, made with recycled pallets. Do they need to have a "roof"? Should we have one warm compost put together all at once and then another ongoing cold compost? Again, what about winter? temperatures get down to -20 celsius quite often, how would this affect the process, it would obviously freeze, but is that ok?

6. THE BIG BROWN IBERIA SNAIL

Norway has a big problem with the Iberia snail, the big brown one. How should we deal with this? Killing them is not really a desirable option, we are looking for ideas on natural, peaceful ways of distracting them/keeping them out of the garden in the first place! Any herbs/flowers that they hate? Can we make a barrier around the garden? What about natural predators, which ones are they and how do we attract them into our polycultural diverse garden?

7. A LITTLE POND

We want to start a little pond as well, should we also grab reeds/plants from a nearby large semi natural pond and plant them in our pond to get instant aquacultural activity, or wait for it to happen naturally? How do we keep the water from getting stagnant?

8. BUY WORMS FOR WORM TOWER?

We wanna have several worm towers in our garden, should we just wait for "normal" worms to come to our tower filled with manure and kitchen scraps, or do we need to buy and supply composting worms? Where do we find these worms to buy? What about the winter, will the worms die and come back or do we need to supply new ones each year?




Thanks for taking the time to help us in our project and therefore helping the earth as a whole! Gardening is definately the sustainable way forward!

Mads & Mikkel - Grindegutane

On Sun, 8 May 2011 12:01:56 +0000, Quantonium
wrote:


Hi!

We are two guys from the southeast of Norway (A place called Asker, not
far from Oslo) planning to convert our garden lawn into a much more
(hopefully) productive permaculture style garden! It's not a
particularly large space, around 60 m^2. We are complete beginners and
have no practical knowledge whatsoever. We do have a certain amount om
theoretical knowledge from reading and watching vids but we need some
support from you guys!

So here are a bunch of questions, if you have any tips to give us about
a few of them or even all of them, it would be much appreciated!



1.REMOVE LAWN OR SHEET MULCH ON TOP?

How should we deal with the lawn? Is it a good idea to dig up the lawn
cover and start a mulch bed or even just start planting straight into
the bare soil with mulch on top, OR should we rather just do a sheet
mulch on top of the lawn and let the lawn decompose underneath over
time? Is there any risk of the lawn coming through the sheet mulch and
would it in that case be better to get rid of the lawn alltogether? We
might try out both techniques but any input from you guys on this would
be great!

2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with
mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once
settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A
LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond
whats good?

3. TILL THE SOIL?

The soil here underneath the lawn is quite compact and with a lot of
clay especially as you go deeper. There's also a lot of big rocks. If we
plant something straight in the soil, is it advisable to till the soil
first to improve soil structure and aeration? Or would such tilling
destroy the humus/microbial layer in the topsoil? Or do we do this just
once as we start it up and then leave it? Again, what about soil
compacting due to heavy snow?

4. COMPOST SOIL VS WILD FOREST SOIL

Whats the difference between composted soil and soil from the forest
floor? Do we have to buy ready compost soil, or could we just go out in
the forest behind our house and grab some soil from there to use in our
garden?

5. COMPOST SYSTEM

We are going to start up a hot composting system, made with recycled
pallets. Do they need to have a "roof"? Should we have one warm compost
put together all at once and then another ongoing cold compost? Again,
what about winter? temperatures get down to -20 celsius quite often, how
would this affect the process, it would obviously freeze, but is that
ok?

6. THE BIG BROWN IBERIA SNAIL

Norway has a big problem with the Iberia snail, the big brown one. How
should we deal with this? Killing them is not really a desirable option,
we are looking for ideas on natural, peaceful ways of distracting
them/keeping them out of the garden in the first place! Any
herbs/flowers that they hate? Can we make a barrier around the garden?
What about natural predators, which ones are they and how do we attract
them into our polycultural diverse garden?

7. A LITTLE POND

We want to start a little pond as well, should we also grab reeds/plants
from a nearby large semi natural pond and plant them in our pond to get
instant aquacultural activity, or wait for it to happen naturally? How
do we keep the water from getting stagnant?

8. BUY WORMS FOR WORM TOWER?

We wanna have several worm towers in our garden, should we just wait for
"normal" worms to come to our tower filled with manure and kitchen
scraps, or do we need to buy and supply composting worms? Where do we
find these worms to buy? What about the winter, will the worms die and
come back or do we need to supply new ones each year?




Thanks for taking the time to help us in our project and therefore
helping the earth as a whole! Gardening is definately the sustainable
way forward!

Mads & Mikkel - Grindegutane

http://travel.guardian.co.uk/picture...115616,00.html

http://library.thinkquest.org/12924/

http://www.nycgovparks.org/events/20...n-troll-stroll

http://luni.net/?p=1130

In article ,
Quantonium wrote:

Hi!

We are two guys from the southeast of Norway (A place called Asker, not
far from Oslo) planning to convert our garden lawn into a much more
(hopefully) productive permaculture style garden! It's not a
particularly large space, around 60 m^2. We are complete beginners and
have no practical knowledge whatsoever. We do have a certain amount om
theoretical knowledge from reading and watching vids but we need some
support from you guys!

So here are a bunch of questions, if you have any tips to give us about
a few of them or even all of them, it would be much appreciated!

I hear it gets cold there ;O)
What do you mean permaculture style garden? What do you plan to grow?
Permaculture implies perennial plants like trees, rhubarb, asparagus, or
artichokes.


1.REMOVE LAWN OR SHEET MULCH ON TOP?

How should we deal with the lawn? Is it a good idea to dig up the lawn
cover and start a mulch bed or even just start planting straight into
the bare soil with mulch on top, OR should we rather just do a sheet
mulch on top of the lawn and let the lawn decompose underneath over
time? Is there any risk of the lawn coming through the sheet mulch and
would it in that case be better to get rid of the lawn alltogether? We
might try out both techniques but any input from you guys on this would
be great!

Depends on what you plan to grow.

2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with
mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once
settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A
LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond
whats good?
Normally, if you feed the soil, the little critters keep the soil
healthy, but I'll leave it to some of out more cold hardy posters to
respond to that one.

3. TILL THE SOIL?

The soil here underneath the lawn is quite compact and with a lot of
clay especially as you go deeper. There's also a lot of big rocks. If we
plant something straight in the soil, is it advisable to till the soil
first to improve soil structure and aeration? Or would such tilling
destroy the humus/microbial layer in the topsoil? Or do we do this just
once as we start it up and then leave it? Again, what about soil
compacting due to heavy snow?
Tilling the first time only is advisable to speed up the development of
the soil. This is particularly important if you plan on growing potatoes.

4. COMPOST SOIL VS WILD FOREST SOIL

Whats the difference between composted soil and soil from the forest
floor? Do we have to buy ready compost soil, or could we just go out in
the forest behind our house and grab some soil from there to use in our
garden?
Don't know what you're talking about. Compost becomes an ingredient of
soil. The forest litter can be used as mulch.

5. COMPOST SYSTEM

We are going to start up a hot composting system, made with recycled
pallets. Do they need to have a "roof"? Should we have one warm compost
put together all at once and then another ongoing cold compost? Again,
what about winter? temperatures get down to -20 celsius quite often, how
would this affect the process, it would obviously freeze, but is that
ok?
So composting will take place during your spring and summer. A large
pile (hot) is desirable for sterilizing weed seeds.

6. THE BIG BROWN IBERIA SNAIL

Norway has a big problem with the Iberia snail, the big brown one. How
should we deal with this? Killing them is not really a desirable option,
we are looking for ideas on natural, peaceful ways of distracting
them/keeping them out of the garden in the first place! Any
herbs/flowers that they hate? Can we make a barrier around the garden?
What about natural predators, which ones are they and how do we attract
them into our polycultural diverse garden?
Ducks, chickens, and frogs. The first two will also give you phosphates,
and you are on your way to permaculture.

7. A LITTLE POND

We want to start a little pond as well, should we also grab reeds/plants
from a nearby large semi natural pond and plant them in our pond to get
instant aquacultural activity, or wait for it to happen naturally? How
do we keep the water from getting stagnant?
All the aquaculture I've seen uses running water, like Florac in France.

8. BUY WORMS FOR WORM TOWER?

We wanna have several worm towers in our garden, should we just wait for
"normal" worms to come to our tower filled with manure and kitchen
scraps, or do we need to buy and supply composting worms? Where do we
find these worms to buy? What about the winter, will the worms die and
come back or do we need to supply new ones each year?


http://www.globalsciencebooks.info/J.../DSDP_3(SI2)12
9-142o.pdf
may be helpful to you.


Thanks for taking the time to help us in our project and therefore
helping the earth as a whole! Gardening is definately the sustainable
way forward!

Mads & Mikkel - Grindegutane
--
- Billy

Bush's 3rd term: Obama plus another elective war
Bush's 4th term: another Judas goat

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://theuptake.org/2011/03/05/michael-moore-the-big-lie-wisconsin-is-broke/

In article
,
Billy wrote:

2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with
mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once
settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A
LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond
whats good?
Normally, if you feed the soil, the little critters keep the soil
healthy, but I'll leave it to some of "our" more cold hardy posters to
respond to that one.
--
- Billy

Bush's 3rd term: Obama plus another elective war
Bush's 4th term: another Judas goat

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://theuptake.org/2011/03/05/michael-moore-the-big-lie-wisconsin-is-broke/

Quantonium wrote:
....
8. BUY WORMS FOR WORM TOWER?

We wanna have several worm towers in our garden, should we just wait for
"normal" worms to come to our tower filled with manure and kitchen
scraps, or do we need to buy and supply composting worms? Where do we
find these worms to buy? What about the winter, will the worms die and
come back or do we need to supply new ones each year?

compost pile often is too hot for
worms.

a worm tower i take to be a
stackable arrangement that you
can remove the bottom without
disturbing the top to take off
finished materials?

worms do not like to be frozen
and will die or head underground
for the winter. or keep some of
them inside in the basement and
feed them leftover veggie scraps
during the winter. it's a great
way to get your hands in the dirt
once in a while when it's too cold
to play outside.

if you stockpile some dried materials
from the summer (bean husks, chopped
and dried alfalfa, clovers, some weeds,
etc.) that can help supplement their
veggie scrap diet too. if you have
bunnies their droppings are great worm
food.

good luck and enjoy!


songbird

On Sun, 8 May 2011 12:01:56 +0000, Quantonium
wrote:


Hi!

We are two guys from the southeast of Norway (A place called Asker, not
far from Oslo) planning to convert our garden lawn into a much more
(hopefully) productive permaculture style garden! It's not a
particularly large space, around 60 m^2.

Do you mean 60 square metres or 60 metres square (3,600 sq m), your
methods will need to be more mechanised and robust if the latter, with
60 sq m you can do it all by hand and save gym fees :-)

We are complete beginners and
have no practical knowledge whatsoever. We do have a certain amount om
theoretical knowledge from reading and watching vids but we need some
support from you guys!

So here are a bunch of questions, if you have any tips to give us about
a few of them or even all of them, it would be much appreciated!



1.REMOVE LAWN OR SHEET MULCH ON TOP?

How should we deal with the lawn? Is it a good idea to dig up the lawn
cover and start a mulch bed or even just start planting straight into
the bare soil with mulch on top, OR should we rather just do a sheet
mulch on top of the lawn and let the lawn decompose underneath over
time? Is there any risk of the lawn coming through the sheet mulch and
would it in that case be better to get rid of the lawn alltogether? We
might try out both techniques but any input from you guys on this would
be great!

If you do it thoroughly the grass will not grow through (I am betting
it is too cold for kikuyu) and so this will save effort. If you
remove the grass what will you do with it? Throwing it away is a
waste. You could compost it and return it to the soil. If so why go
to the trouble of removing it in the first place? Compost in situ.


2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with
mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once
settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A
LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond
whats good?


I don't know about snow compaction as it doesn't snow here, ask a
local. In general you have to top up organic mulch as it decays over
time regardless of snow.

3. TILL THE SOIL?

The soil here underneath the lawn is quite compact and with a lot of
clay especially as you go deeper. There's also a lot of big rocks. If we
plant something straight in the soil, is it advisable to till the soil
first to improve soil structure and aeration? Or would such tilling
destroy the humus/microbial layer in the topsoil? Or do we do this just
once as we start it up and then leave it? Again, what about soil
compacting due to heavy snow?

It depends on drainage. If the soil has much clay and is not on a
mound then planting in a hole that you have carefully dug and filled
with friable soil will drown your new tree/shrub. You are effectively
planting in a pond and few plants will do well. In those conditions
build the friable soil up on top of the non-draining soil and plant
into that.

If it drains well you can improve it in spots without too much bother.


4. COMPOST SOIL VS WILD FOREST SOIL

Whats the difference between composted soil and soil from the forest
floor? Do we have to buy ready compost soil, or could we just go out in
the forest behind our house and grab some soil from there to use in our
garden?


Natural soils and man-made soils both vary greatly over the world. It
isn't possible for us to say remotely how the two that you have in
mind compare. You need an experienced local to inspect them and
judge.

Regardless of which you use how exactly are you going to collect and
transport it? How much do you need? What will that cost to move?

5. COMPOST SYSTEM

We are going to start up a hot composting system, made with recycled
pallets. Do they need to have a "roof"? Should we have one warm compost
put together all at once and then another ongoing cold compost? Again,
what about winter? temperatures get down to -20 celsius quite often, how
would this affect the process, it would obviously freeze, but is that
ok?


Hot composting will be hard at low temperature. You will need to
build big compost heaps (at least 1 cubic m) and insulate them (old
carpet is good) and add a roof of some insulating material to keep the
heat in. It will be hard work to turn or to supply with air which is
necessary to keep a hot heap working.

Below 10C not much decomposition takes place. Once it freezes nearly
all activity will cease until the weather warms up to where the
microbes are happy. You may be composting only in high summer and it
may not be hot heap.

I had a friend who moved to Canada. All winter they threw their cat
litter and dog's turds on the "compost" heap, where it promptly froze.
Quite a pile grew but it seemed harmless enough and was often buried
under snow so it wasn't unsightly. However when it thawed in spring
it was a different matter, they had to bury it.

{I am not recommending carnivore feces for composting, the point was
about lack of microbial activity when it is cold}

Why do you want to do hot composting? Where will you get the
material? Collecting a cubic metre (at least) of material and
chopping it up small so that it will decompose in a hot heap is a huge
amount of work to do manually and this much would not be available
often in a small garden.

6. THE BIG BROWN IBERIA SNAIL

Norway has a big problem with the Iberia snail, the big brown one. How
should we deal with this? Killing them is not really a desirable option,
we are looking for ideas on natural, peaceful ways of distracting
them/keeping them out of the garden in the first place! Any
herbs/flowers that they hate? Can we make a barrier around the garden?
What about natural predators, which ones are they and how do we attract
them into our polycultural diverse garden?

No idea, never met a big bad brown Iberian snail.


7. A LITTLE POND

We want to start a little pond as well, should we also grab reeds/plants
from a nearby large semi natural pond and plant them in our pond to get
instant aquacultural activity, or wait for it to happen naturally? How
do we keep the water from getting stagnant?

If you have water birds that will visit your pond (to eat the fish
that you have thoughtfully provided for example) they will bring in
some water plants but that will take a while.

A pond is by definition stagnant. If you want to stop algae etc
growing in it you will have to treat and/or filter and/or circulate
it. People write books on the subject of the ways to clean such
water, there isn't a simple and universal solution. A pond newsgroup
might be more use than a gardening group.

Consider that the smaller and shallower the pond the quicker it will
freeze which may make aquaculture difficult or impossible.


8. BUY WORMS FOR WORM TOWER?

We wanna have several worm towers in our garden, should we just wait for
"normal" worms to come to our tower filled with manure and kitchen
scraps, or do we need to buy and supply composting worms? Where do we
find these worms to buy? What about the winter, will the worms die and
come back or do we need to supply new ones each year?

Once again my knowledge is limited about cold climates. One point
though, compost worms and earth worms are different and grow in
different conditions. You need to decide which (if either) will do
well in your situation. I would not be looking for any solution that
required renewing the population annually.

The point about permaculture is to adopt those practices that fit your
land and climate and then to adapt them to your specific situation,
not to import practices from elsewhere regardless of suitability and
to force them to work in a place where they don't fit.

David

Quantonium writes:

Hi!

We are two guys from the southeast of Norway (A place called Asker, not
far from Oslo) planning to convert our garden lawn into a much more
(hopefully) productive permaculture style garden!

Reading your whole post, I think the answers to your questions have
everything to do with what you mean by permaculture.

If you're going to grow food on your front lawn, I'd wonder why.
In most places, growing food means fences, netting, raised beds, etc.

You'll get the best advice with better questions.

1.REMOVE LAWN OR SHEET MULCH ON TOP?

How should we deal with the lawn? Is it a good idea to dig up the lawn
cover and start a mulch bed or even just start planting straight into
the bare soil with mulch on top, OR should we rather just do a sheet
mulch on top of the lawn and let the lawn decompose underneath over
time? Is there any risk of the lawn coming through the sheet mulch and
would it in that case be better to get rid of the lawn alltogether? We
might try out both techniques but any input from you guys on this would
be great!

Sheet mulch? You mean mulch with some kind of weed barrier.

Start small, you're beginners.

2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with
mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once
settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A
LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond
whats good?

Snow does not compact soil.
The ground freezes the snow piles on top. The act of freezing expands
the soil and if anything loosens the soil.

3. TILL THE SOIL?

The soil here underneath the lawn is quite compact and with a lot of
clay especially as you go deeper. There's also a lot of big rocks. If we
plant something straight in the soil, is it advisable to till the soil
first to improve soil structure and aeration? Or would such tilling
destroy the humus/microbial layer in the topsoil? Or do we do this just
once as we start it up and then leave it? Again, what about soil
compacting due to heavy snow?

Don't til unless you're starting a farm.

4. COMPOST SOIL VS WILD FOREST SOIL

Whats the difference between composted soil and soil from the forest
floor? Do we have to buy ready compost soil, or could we just go out in
the forest behind our house and grab some soil from there to use in our
garden?

You can't take soil out of a forest in most civilized countries.
The soil on a forest floor is compost.

5. COMPOST SYSTEM

We are going to start up a hot composting system, made with recycled
pallets. Do they need to have a "roof"? Should we have one warm compost
put together all at once and then another ongoing cold compost? Again,
what about winter? temperatures get down to -20 celsius quite often, how
would this affect the process, it would obviously freeze, but is that
ok?

Hot and cold compost? you're over thinking this stuff.
Put garden waste in a pile. I year later turn it over and you'll find
soil. In the winter not much will go on in the pile. No big deal.

6. THE BIG BROWN IBERIA SNAIL

Norway has a big problem with the Iberia snail, the big brown one. How
should we deal with this? Killing them is not really a desirable option,
we are looking for ideas on natural, peaceful ways of distracting
them/keeping them out of the garden in the first place! Any
herbs/flowers that they hate? Can we make a barrier around the garden?
What about natural predators, which ones are they and how do we attract
them into our polycultural diverse garden?

Google says you are SOL.

This is one reason why food production is best done on farms.
Google says they eat EVERYTHING. I wonder if that includes lawns?

7. A LITTLE POND

We want to start a little pond as well, should we also grab reeds/plants
from a nearby large semi natural pond and plant them in our pond to get
instant aquacultural activity, or wait for it to happen naturally? How
do we keep the water from getting stagnant?

Way too much for a beginner. Ponds are a specialty onto themselves.

8. BUY WORMS FOR WORM TOWER?

We wanna have several worm towers in our garden, should we just wait for
"normal" worms to come to our tower filled with manure and kitchen
scraps, or do we need to buy and supply composting worms? Where do we
find these worms to buy? What about the winter, will the worms die and
come back or do we need to supply new ones each year?

Again, way over thinking this stuff.
Throw garden waste in a pile. Do nothing else to it
except turn it over are remove the soil after a year or 2.
All this advanced composting stuff is for people that arrange
their sock drawers by color.

Thanks for taking the time to help us in our project and therefore
helping the earth as a whole! Gardening is definately the sustainable
way forward!

I garden for beauty. Nothing wrong with growing food but we'll continue
to feed the world from farms for the indefinite future.

--
Dan Espen

In article , wrote:

Quantonium writes:

Hi!

We are two guys from the southeast of Norway (A place called Asker, not
far from Oslo) planning to convert our garden lawn into a much more
(hopefully) productive permaculture style garden!

Reading your whole post, I think the answers to your questions have
everything to do with what you mean by permaculture.

If you're going to grow food on your front lawn, I'd wonder why.
In most places, growing food means fences, netting, raised beds, etc.

You'll get the best advice with better questions.

1.REMOVE LAWN OR SHEET MULCH ON TOP?

How should we deal with the lawn? Is it a good idea to dig up the lawn
cover and start a mulch bed or even just start planting straight into
the bare soil with mulch on top, OR should we rather just do a sheet
mulch on top of the lawn and let the lawn decompose underneath over
time? Is there any risk of the lawn coming through the sheet mulch and
would it in that case be better to get rid of the lawn alltogether? We
might try out both techniques but any input from you guys on this would
be great!

Sheet mulch? You mean mulch with some kind of weed barrier.

Start small, you're beginners.

2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with
mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once
settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A
LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond
whats good?

Snow does not compact soil.
The ground freezes the snow piles on top. The act of freezing expands
the soil and if anything loosens the soil.

3. TILL THE SOIL?

The soil here underneath the lawn is quite compact and with a lot of
clay especially as you go deeper. There's also a lot of big rocks. If we
plant something straight in the soil, is it advisable to till the soil
first to improve soil structure and aeration? Or would such tilling
destroy the humus/microbial layer in the topsoil? Or do we do this just
once as we start it up and then leave it? Again, what about soil
compacting due to heavy snow?

Don't til unless you're starting a farm.

4. COMPOST SOIL VS WILD FOREST SOIL

Whats the difference between composted soil and soil from the forest
floor? Do we have to buy ready compost soil, or could we just go out in
the forest behind our house and grab some soil from there to use in our
garden?

You can't take soil out of a forest in most civilized countries.
The soil on a forest floor is compost.

5. COMPOST SYSTEM

We are going to start up a hot composting system, made with recycled
pallets. Do they need to have a "roof"? Should we have one warm compost
put together all at once and then another ongoing cold compost? Again,
what about winter? temperatures get down to -20 celsius quite often, how
would this affect the process, it would obviously freeze, but is that
ok?

Hot and cold compost? you're over thinking this stuff.
Put garden waste in a pile. I year later turn it over and you'll find
soil. In the winter not much will go on in the pile. No big deal.

6. THE BIG BROWN IBERIA SNAIL

Norway has a big problem with the Iberia snail, the big brown one. How
should we deal with this? Killing them is not really a desirable option,
we are looking for ideas on natural, peaceful ways of distracting
them/keeping them out of the garden in the first place! Any
herbs/flowers that they hate? Can we make a barrier around the garden?
What about natural predators, which ones are they and how do we attract
them into our polycultural diverse garden?

Google says you are SOL.

This is one reason why food production is best done on farms.
Google says they eat EVERYTHING. I wonder if that includes lawns?

7. A LITTLE POND

We want to start a little pond as well, should we also grab reeds/plants
from a nearby large semi natural pond and plant them in our pond to get
instant aquacultural activity, or wait for it to happen naturally? How
do we keep the water from getting stagnant?

Way too much for a beginner. Ponds are a specialty onto themselves.

8. BUY WORMS FOR WORM TOWER?

We wanna have several worm towers in our garden, should we just wait for
"normal" worms to come to our tower filled with manure and kitchen
scraps, or do we need to buy and supply composting worms? Where do we
find these worms to buy? What about the winter, will the worms die and
come back or do we need to supply new ones each year?

Again, way over thinking this stuff.
Throw garden waste in a pile. Do nothing else to it
except turn it over are remove the soil after a year or 2.
All this advanced composting stuff is for people that arrange
their sock drawers by color.

Thanks for taking the time to help us in our project and therefore
helping the earth as a whole! Gardening is definately the sustainable
way forward!

I garden for beauty. Nothing wrong with growing food but we'll continue
to feed the world from farms for the indefinite future.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed the poster was looking for
answers, not attitude.
--
- Billy

Bush's 3rd term: Obama plus another elective war
Bush's 4th term: another Judas goat

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://theuptake.org/2011/03/05/michael-moore-the-big-lie-wisconsin-is-broke/

Billy Megillah wrote:
wrote:
Quantonium writes:

Hi!

We are two guys from the southeast of Norway (A place called Asker, not
far from Oslo) planning to convert our garden lawn into a much more
(hopefully) productive permaculture style garden!

Reading your whole post, I think the answers to your questions have
everything to do with what you mean by permaculture.

If you're going to grow food on your front lawn, I'd wonder why.
In most places, growing food means fences, netting, raised beds, etc.

You'll get the best advice with better questions.

1.REMOVE LAWN OR SHEET MULCH ON TOP?

How should we deal with the lawn? Is it a good idea to dig up the lawn
cover and start a mulch bed or even just start planting straight into
the bare soil with mulch on top, OR should we rather just do a sheet
mulch on top of the lawn and let the lawn decompose underneath over
time? Is there any risk of the lawn coming through the sheet mulch and
would it in that case be better to get rid of the lawn alltogether? We
might try out both techniques but any input from you guys on this would
be great!

Sheet mulch? You mean mulch with some kind of weed barrier.

Start small, you're beginners.

2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with
mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once
settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A
LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond
whats good?

Snow does not compact soil.
The ground freezes the snow piles on top. The act of freezing expands
the soil and if anything loosens the soil.

3. TILL THE SOIL?

The soil here underneath the lawn is quite compact and with a lot of
clay especially as you go deeper. There's also a lot of big rocks. If we
plant something straight in the soil, is it advisable to till the soil
first to improve soil structure and aeration? Or would such tilling
destroy the humus/microbial layer in the topsoil? Or do we do this just
once as we start it up and then leave it? Again, what about soil
compacting due to heavy snow?

Don't til unless you're starting a farm.

4. COMPOST SOIL VS WILD FOREST SOIL

Whats the difference between composted soil and soil from the forest
floor? Do we have to buy ready compost soil, or could we just go out in
the forest behind our house and grab some soil from there to use in our
garden?

You can't take soil out of a forest in most civilized countries.
The soil on a forest floor is compost.

5. COMPOST SYSTEM

We are going to start up a hot composting system, made with recycled
pallets. Do they need to have a "roof"? Should we have one warm compost
put together all at once and then another ongoing cold compost? Again,
what about winter? temperatures get down to -20 celsius quite often, how
would this affect the process, it would obviously freeze, but is that
ok?

Hot and cold compost? you're over thinking this stuff.
Put garden waste in a pile. I year later turn it over and you'll find
soil. In the winter not much will go on in the pile. No big deal.

6. THE BIG BROWN IBERIA SNAIL

Norway has a big problem with the Iberia snail, the big brown one. How
should we deal with this? Killing them is not really a desirable option,
we are looking for ideas on natural, peaceful ways of distracting
them/keeping them out of the garden in the first place! Any
herbs/flowers that they hate? Can we make a barrier around the garden?
What about natural predators, which ones are they and how do we attract
them into our polycultural diverse garden?

Google says you are SOL.

This is one reason why food production is best done on farms.
Google says they eat EVERYTHING. I wonder if that includes lawns?

7. A LITTLE POND

We want to start a little pond as well, should we also grab reeds/plants
from a nearby large semi natural pond and plant them in our pond to get
instant aquacultural activity, or wait for it to happen naturally? How
do we keep the water from getting stagnant?

Way too much for a beginner. Ponds are a specialty onto themselves.

8. BUY WORMS FOR WORM TOWER?

We wanna have several worm towers in our garden, should we just wait for
"normal" worms to come to our tower filled with manure and kitchen
scraps, or do we need to buy and supply composting worms? Where do we
find these worms to buy? What about the winter, will the worms die and
come back or do we need to supply new ones each year?

Again, way over thinking this stuff.
Throw garden waste in a pile. Do nothing else to it
except turn it over are remove the soil after a year or 2.
All this advanced composting stuff is for people that arrange
their sock drawers by color.

Thanks for taking the time to help us in our project and therefore
helping the earth as a whole! Gardening is definately the sustainable
way forward!

I garden for beauty. Nothing wrong with growing food but we'll continue
to feed the world from farms for the indefinite future.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed the poster was looking for
answers, not attitude.

Then why did you respond, all you ever give is tude, albiet loooong
winded verbose tude but tude nevertheless... WTF happened, run out of
time to post your usual unabridged billytude megillah?

Billy writes:

In article , wrote:

Quantonium writes:

Hi!

We are two guys from the southeast of Norway (A place called Asker, not
far from Oslo) planning to convert our garden lawn into a much more
(hopefully) productive permaculture style garden!

Reading your whole post, I think the answers to your questions have
everything to do with what you mean by permaculture.

If you're going to grow food on your front lawn, I'd wonder why.
In most places, growing food means fences, netting, raised beds, etc.

You'll get the best advice with better questions.

1.REMOVE LAWN OR SHEET MULCH ON TOP?

How should we deal with the lawn? Is it a good idea to dig up the lawn
cover and start a mulch bed or even just start planting straight into
the bare soil with mulch on top, OR should we rather just do a sheet
mulch on top of the lawn and let the lawn decompose underneath over
time? Is there any risk of the lawn coming through the sheet mulch and
would it in that case be better to get rid of the lawn alltogether? We
might try out both techniques but any input from you guys on this would
be great!

Sheet mulch? You mean mulch with some kind of weed barrier.

Start small, you're beginners.

2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with
mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once
settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A
LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond
whats good?

Snow does not compact soil.
The ground freezes the snow piles on top. The act of freezing expands
the soil and if anything loosens the soil.

3. TILL THE SOIL?

The soil here underneath the lawn is quite compact and with a lot of
clay especially as you go deeper. There's also a lot of big rocks. If we
plant something straight in the soil, is it advisable to till the soil
first to improve soil structure and aeration? Or would such tilling
destroy the humus/microbial layer in the topsoil? Or do we do this just
once as we start it up and then leave it? Again, what about soil
compacting due to heavy snow?

Don't til unless you're starting a farm.

4. COMPOST SOIL VS WILD FOREST SOIL

Whats the difference between composted soil and soil from the forest
floor? Do we have to buy ready compost soil, or could we just go out in
the forest behind our house and grab some soil from there to use in our
garden?

You can't take soil out of a forest in most civilized countries.
The soil on a forest floor is compost.

5. COMPOST SYSTEM

We are going to start up a hot composting system, made with recycled
pallets. Do they need to have a "roof"? Should we have one warm compost
put together all at once and then another ongoing cold compost? Again,
what about winter? temperatures get down to -20 celsius quite often, how
would this affect the process, it would obviously freeze, but is that
ok?

Hot and cold compost? you're over thinking this stuff.
Put garden waste in a pile. I year later turn it over and you'll find
soil. In the winter not much will go on in the pile. No big deal.

6. THE BIG BROWN IBERIA SNAIL

Norway has a big problem with the Iberia snail, the big brown one. How
should we deal with this? Killing them is not really a desirable option,
we are looking for ideas on natural, peaceful ways of distracting
them/keeping them out of the garden in the first place! Any
herbs/flowers that they hate? Can we make a barrier around the garden?
What about natural predators, which ones are they and how do we attract
them into our polycultural diverse garden?

Google says you are SOL.

This is one reason why food production is best done on farms.
Google says they eat EVERYTHING. I wonder if that includes lawns?

7. A LITTLE POND

We want to start a little pond as well, should we also grab reeds/plants
from a nearby large semi natural pond and plant them in our pond to get
instant aquacultural activity, or wait for it to happen naturally? How
do we keep the water from getting stagnant?

Way too much for a beginner. Ponds are a specialty onto themselves.

8. BUY WORMS FOR WORM TOWER?

We wanna have several worm towers in our garden, should we just wait for
"normal" worms to come to our tower filled with manure and kitchen
scraps, or do we need to buy and supply composting worms? Where do we
find these worms to buy? What about the winter, will the worms die and
come back or do we need to supply new ones each year?

Again, way over thinking this stuff.
Throw garden waste in a pile. Do nothing else to it
except turn it over are remove the soil after a year or 2.
All this advanced composting stuff is for people that arrange
their sock drawers by color.

Thanks for taking the time to help us in our project and therefore
helping the earth as a whole! Gardening is definately the sustainable
way forward!

I garden for beauty. Nothing wrong with growing food but we'll continue
to feed the world from farms for the indefinite future.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed the poster was looking for
answers, not attitude.

Sorry if my answers are not sufficient for you.

I have my own "attitude" and it is going to come through no matter what
I do, but I believe I gave the OP some good advice. If you are a
beginner, start small, and work up from there.

The OP doesn't have to save the world in one big step.

--
Dan Espen

In article ,
Janet wrote:

In article Wildbilly-94BF3C.22310208052011@c-61-68-245-
199.per.connect.net.au, says...

In article , wrote:

Quantonium writes:

Hi!

We are two guys from the southeast of Norway (A place called Asker, not
far from Oslo) planning to convert our garden lawn into a much more
(hopefully) productive permaculture style garden!

Reading your whole post, I think the answers to your questions have
everything to do with what you mean by permaculture.

If you're going to grow food on your front lawn, I'd wonder why.
In most places, growing food means fences, netting, raised beds, etc.

You'll get the best advice with better questions.

1.REMOVE LAWN OR SHEET MULCH ON TOP?

How should we deal with the lawn? Is it a good idea to dig up the lawn
cover and start a mulch bed or even just start planting straight into
the bare soil with mulch on top, OR should we rather just do a sheet
mulch on top of the lawn and let the lawn decompose underneath over
time? Is there any risk of the lawn coming through the sheet mulch and
would it in that case be better to get rid of the lawn alltogether? We
might try out both techniques but any input from you guys on this would
be great!

Sheet mulch? You mean mulch with some kind of weed barrier.

Start small, you're beginners.

2. TOP UP WITH MULCH EACH YEAR/SOIL COMPACTION DUE TO SNOW?

In a sheet mulch layered raised bed system, do we need to "top up" with
mulch/manure/compost etc every year or does it just stay as it is once
settled and decomposed? What about winter time? Here in Norway there's A
LOT of snow during winter, and wouldnt that compact the soil beyond
whats good?

Snow does not compact soil.
The ground freezes the snow piles on top. The act of freezing expands
the soil and if anything loosens the soil.

3. TILL THE SOIL?

The soil here underneath the lawn is quite compact and with a lot of
clay especially as you go deeper. There's also a lot of big rocks. If we
plant something straight in the soil, is it advisable to till the soil
first to improve soil structure and aeration? Or would such tilling
destroy the humus/microbial layer in the topsoil? Or do we do this just
once as we start it up and then leave it? Again, what about soil
compacting due to heavy snow?

Don't til unless you're starting a farm.

4. COMPOST SOIL VS WILD FOREST SOIL

Whats the difference between composted soil and soil from the forest
floor? Do we have to buy ready compost soil, or could we just go out in
the forest behind our house and grab some soil from there to use in our
garden?

You can't take soil out of a forest in most civilized countries.
The soil on a forest floor is compost.

5. COMPOST SYSTEM

We are going to start up a hot composting system, made with recycled
pallets. Do they need to have a "roof"? Should we have one warm compost
put together all at once and then another ongoing cold compost? Again,
what about winter? temperatures get down to -20 celsius quite often, how
would this affect the process, it would obviously freeze, but is that
ok?

Hot and cold compost? you're over thinking this stuff.
Put garden waste in a pile. I year later turn it over and you'll find
soil. In the winter not much will go on in the pile. No big deal.

6. THE BIG BROWN IBERIA SNAIL

Norway has a big problem with the Iberia snail, the big brown one. How
should we deal with this? Killing them is not really a desirable option,
we are looking for ideas on natural, peaceful ways of distracting
them/keeping them out of the garden in the first place! Any
herbs/flowers that they hate? Can we make a barrier around the garden?
What about natural predators, which ones are they and how do we attract
them into our polycultural diverse garden?

Google says you are SOL.

This is one reason why food production is best done on farms.
Google says they eat EVERYTHING. I wonder if that includes lawns?

7. A LITTLE POND

We want to start a little pond as well, should we also grab reeds/plants
from a nearby large semi natural pond and plant them in our pond to get
instant aquacultural activity, or wait for it to happen naturally? How
do we keep the water from getting stagnant?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed the poster was looking for
answers, not attitude.


Permaculture IS an attitude; it's a philosophy of life, an outlook on
how to inhabit and nurture the planet. The OP needs to grasp the "why"
before looking at "how".

Janet

I guess I felt it presumptuous to tell the OP to "ask better questions".
None of us want to ask dumb questions. As we confront reality, the
quality of our questions should get better. Just sayin'.

For the overview of permaculture, I'd recommend "A Farm for a Future",
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xShCEKL-mQ8

A beautifully produced BBC production in five parts that may not be
directly applicable to their situation, but displays permaculture
approachs to family food production.
--
- Billy

Bush's 3rd term: Obama plus another elective war
Bush's 4th term: another Judas goat

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://theuptake.org/2011/03/05/michael-moore-the-big-lie-wisconsin-is-broke/

Thank you very much for the answers! We've learned a lot, and it will be fun to begin! We've gotten cow compost, soil, hay, planks, stones and other stuff! Seeds are ordered as well!

Have a nice day!

Hey guys!

I am in Iceland and also started with a lawn!
My soil was exactly like yours, very compacted and clay, full of grass on the top, and rocks just a few cms below. This is how I recover it:

1) Perhaps its best to remove the top 5-10cm of soil, which is full of grass, and till the other 30-40cm of soil.

2) On top of this add plenty organic matter, such as tree leaves (not conifers), compost, hay, manure, and grass clippings. Perhaps add sand if you plant carrots or other crops that require good draining. This is good. Make that some 30cm of this mix, at least. This will form a very light and aerate layer of soil. Just after a couple of months it will be full of worms, and form a nice layer of fertile and wet soil!

3) Finally, spread some nice soil on top of it. Let's say 5 cm. If you don't, birds will mess your organic matter mulch, and seedlings might rotten there.

4) Plant your seedlings here, or even sow seeds (if you can water them often). In the end of the season, avoid messing up with this new soil, by pulling plants, just cut them.

5) Swear never to till this new soil ever again! Or walk over it.
I tried both systems, lay card first or the pull grass first; the second option gave better results. Till good but only one time.

Permaculture perennials: rhubarb, lovage, jerusalem artichokes, kale, spring onions...

Read many more species I grow or plan growing here
http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/permac...tml#post959459

On Saturday, May 14, 2011 10:45:16 AM UTC+2, Quantonium wrote:
Thank you very much for the answers! We've learned a lot, and it will be
fun to begin! We've gotten cow compost, soil, hay, planks, stones and
other stuff! Seeds are ordered as well!

Have a nice day!




--
Quantonium

Hvordan går det med hagen?
hadde vært morsomt å komme innom for å se!
er selv ivrig på skoghage prisnsippet. Setter opp et lite prosjekt på nesodden for tiden.