Nad R wrote:
songbird wrote:

it reads like the drainage ditch you put in
works just fine, you need to slope the rest of
the area so that the water flows towards the
center. or you can trench crossways and tie
into the central trench.

for torrents of rain you might consider
adding a low area in to catch the overflow
and that way it has a place to sit while it
soaks in.

i'd not use gravel unless you are putting
in a french drain, resevoir drain or drain
tube with a grate.

also, i'd not mix the decayed wood chips
with the clay. better to leave the clay
undisturbed as much as possible. use the
small really broken down particles in the
topsoil if you have to do something with
it and don't have any other place to go with
it (it would be much better used in a
garden) but i would not put the bigger pieces
of wood chips in the topsoil. that can later
encourage moss or fungus troubles. use them
instead as a garden mulch or along a fence or
under the deck or...

i don't agree with Nad about growing grass
in clay especially if you plan on using it
for a play area for a child. that stuff gets
way too hard when it gets dry. i've got a
broken collarbone in the past from landing
wrong on such a surface.

I mentioned it would be hard during dry spells. However it will still
look just as nice as any other lawn.

I think this depends on what you mean by "growing grass in clay". I have
direct comparisons here between growing grass in clay-based silt, in plastic
clay and a mixture of the two. It is really obvious that (here at least)
grass does not do well in plastic clay and many weeds infiltrate, it does
very well in silt and in a mixture it is intermediate.

This comparison does give some hope though as the mixture can be converted
to useful soil by growing grass on it and mulching in the cuttings. My
understanding is that breaking up the solid clay allows water, air and roots
to penetrate which gives the grass a start and from then on the roots going
into the lumps combined with the mulched grass mixed in gradually breaks up
the lumps. It takes years to change though.

The OP describes the yard as "solid clay" so with that and the drainage
problems I suspect there is going to be much work and/or time to making a
decent lawn that will cushion child's play. I suggest a small play area
covered with bark to make do until the the rest is ready or the child grows
up, whichever comes first.

David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Nad R wrote:

I mentioned it would be hard during dry spells. However it will still
look just as nice as any other lawn.

I think this depends on what you mean by "growing grass in clay". I have
direct comparisons here between growing grass in clay-based silt, in
plastic clay and a mixture of the two. It is really obvious that (here
at least) grass does not do well in plastic clay and many weeds
infiltrate, it does very well in silt and in a mixture it is intermediate.

This comparison does give some hope though as the mixture can be
converted to useful soil by growing grass on it and mulching in the
cuttings. My understanding is that breaking up the solid clay allows
water, air and roots to penetrate which gives the grass a start and from
then on the roots going into the lumps combined with the mulched grass
mixed in gradually breaks up the lumps. It takes years to change though.

The OP describes the yard as "solid clay" so with that and the drainage
problems I suspect there is going to be much work and/or time to making a
decent lawn that will cushion child's play. I suggest a small play area
covered with bark to make do until the the rest is ready or the child
grows up, whichever comes first.

David

Grass does grow in clay. When it rains the clay turns very mushy (technical
gardening term) and stays mushy for a long time which helps in germination.
When first putting down the grass seed it does need to put down heavy
because of the weeds. But first I scratch the ground or scape it then
lightly water it to prevent the grass seed from washing away on a dry
surface. When the clay is wet it become muck (another technical term) and
hard to to spread when your ankle deep in muck.

I estimate nighty percent of my yard is heavy clay. Over time the ground
has softened and the large dry cracks are gone. In the beginning the were
no worms in the ground and the field meadows had no root structure below an
inch. Now I have lots and lots of worms in my lawn. The birds have a feast
after a rain.

I aerate the lawn and mulch the clippings during the summer. I bag the
clippings in the spring and fall to prevent weeds from spreading. Right now
my yard is soaking wet, It has rained almost every other day. My grass is
getting very tall and has nice dark green color. But too wet to mow now.

http://nadrhel.com/Summer.html

The grassy area in my yard is all clay. I think the grass looks ok from my
web site.
There is one photo that shows the grass on the brown side which was taken
in the middle of summer. Even the meadows next to my lawn is composed
mostly of clay.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Nad R wrote:

I mentioned it would be hard during dry spells. However it will still
look just as nice as any other lawn.

I think this depends on what you mean by "growing grass in clay". I have
direct comparisons here between growing grass in clay-based silt, in
plastic clay and a mixture of the two. It is really obvious that (here
at least) grass does not do well in plastic clay and many weeds
infiltrate, it does very well in silt and in a mixture it is intermediate.

This comparison does give some hope though as the mixture can be
converted to useful soil by growing grass on it and mulching in the
cuttings. My understanding is that breaking up the solid clay allows
water, air and roots to penetrate which gives the grass a start and from
then on the roots going into the lumps combined with the mulched grass
mixed in gradually breaks up the lumps. It takes years to change though.

The OP describes the yard as "solid clay" so with that and the drainage
problems I suspect there is going to be much work and/or time to making a
decent lawn that will cushion child's play. I suggest a small play area
covered with bark to make do until the the rest is ready or the child
grows up, whichever comes first.

David

Grass does grow in clay. When it rains the clay turns very mushy (technical
gardening term) and stays mushy for a long time which helps in germination.
When first putting down the grass seed it does need to put down heavy
because of the weeds. But first I scratch the ground or scape it then
lightly water it to prevent the grass seed from washing away on a dry
surface. When the clay is wet it become muck (another technical term) and
hard to to spread when your ankle deep in muck.

I estimate nighty percent of my yard is heavy clay. Over time the ground
has softened and the large dry cracks are gone. In the beginning the were
no worms in the ground and the field meadows had no root structure below an
inch. Now I have lots and lots of worms in my lawn. The birds have a feast
after a rain.

I aerate the lawn and mulch the clippings during the summer. I bag the
clippings in the spring and fall to prevent weeds from spreading. Right now
my yard is soaking wet, It has rained almost every other day. My grass is
getting very tall and has nice dark green color. But too wet to mow now.

http://nadrhel.com/Summer.html

The grassy area in my yard is all clay. I think the grass looks ok from my
web site.
There is one photo that shows the grass on the brown side which was taken
in the middle of summer. Even the meadows next to my lawn is composed
mostly of clay.

Don't forget your ol' friends, rye, and buckwheat.



"The insufferable arrogance of human beings to think that Nature was
made solely for their benefit, as if it was conceivable that the sun
had been set afire merely to ripen men's apples and heads of their
cabbages."
~Savinien de Cyrano de Bergerac, États et empires de la
lune, 1656
--
- Billy

Bush's 3rd term: Obama plus another elective war
Bush's 4th term: we can't afford it

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://theuptake.org/2011/03/05/michael-moore-the-big-lie-wisconsin-is-broke/

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Nad R wrote:

I mentioned it would be hard during dry spells. However it will still
look just as nice as any other lawn.

I think this depends on what you mean by "growing grass in clay". I have
direct comparisons here between growing grass in clay-based silt, in
plastic clay and a mixture of the two. It is really obvious that (here
at least) grass does not do well in plastic clay and many weeds
infiltrate, it does very well in silt and in a mixture it is intermediate.

This comparison does give some hope though as the mixture can be
converted to useful soil by growing grass on it and mulching in the
cuttings. My understanding is that breaking up the solid clay allows
water, air and roots to penetrate which gives the grass a start and from
then on the roots going into the lumps combined with the mulched grass
mixed in gradually breaks up the lumps. It takes years to change though.

The OP describes the yard as "solid clay" so with that and the drainage
problems I suspect there is going to be much work and/or time to making a
decent lawn that will cushion child's play. I suggest a small play area
covered with bark to make do until the the rest is ready or the child
grows up, whichever comes first.

David

Grass does grow in clay. When it rains the clay turns very mushy (technical
gardening term) and stays mushy for a long time which helps in germination.
When first putting down the grass seed it does need to put down heavy
because of the weeds. But first I scratch the ground or scape it then
lightly water it to prevent the grass seed from washing away on a dry
surface. When the clay is wet it become muck (another technical term) and
hard to to spread when your ankle deep in muck.

I estimate nighty percent of my yard is heavy clay. Over time the ground
has softened and the large dry cracks are gone. In the beginning the were
no worms in the ground and the field meadows had no root structure below an
inch. Now I have lots and lots of worms in my lawn. The birds have a feast
after a rain.

I aerate the lawn and mulch the clippings during the summer. I bag the
clippings in the spring and fall to prevent weeds from spreading. Right now
my yard is soaking wet, It has rained almost every other day. My grass is
getting very tall and has nice dark green color. But too wet to mow now.

http://nadrhel.com/Summer.html

The grassy area in my yard is all clay. I think the grass looks ok from my
web site.
There is one photo that shows the grass on the brown side which was taken
in the middle of summer. Even the meadows next to my lawn is composed
mostly of clay.

Don't forget your ol' friends, rye, and buckwheat.

The friends are in the meadow, however ever their roots do not go very deep
in the clay and grow well. I would much rather have clay than sand. When I
leave this planet, in a space ship I hope, the soil will be in much better
shape where I lived.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)