So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water. And BER set in anyway. No water
stress such as dry roots. I water every day as it is quite warm and the
pots dry fast. This is maddening because I lost so many tomatoes last year
to BER. Just how much more can one do?

Paul M. Cook wrote:
So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer

I don't think this is the right fertilizer for tomatoes (although it is
what I in my ignorance used), it has too much nitrogen. It's something
like 511.

I found this:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...ing_plus/73178

So, the fish fert may not be your cause, but it does not help and may
indeed hurt.

Jeff

and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water. And BER set in anyway. No water
stress such as dry roots. I water every day as it is quite warm and the
pots dry fast. This is maddening because I lost so many tomatoes last year
to BER. Just how much more can one do?

Jeff Thies wrote:
Paul M. Cook wrote:
So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer

I don't think this is the right fertilizer for tomatoes (although it is
what I in my ignorance used), it has too much nitrogen. It's something
like 511.

I found this:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...ing_plus/73178

So, the fish fert may not be your cause, but it does not help and may
indeed hurt.

Jeff

and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water.

http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubs/PDF/C938.pdf


Although some people believe foliar sprays can correct Ca deficiency in
developing fruits, research is very inconclusive on this issue. What is
well known is that Ca only moves in the plant via the xylem and moves
with the transpirational water flow from the roots, up the plant and
into developing leaves. Calcium has no ability to flow from the leaves
via the phloem to the developing fruit. In addition, once fruit has
grown to golf ball size, the waxy outer layer has developed and is
believed to be quite impermeable to water. Therefore, it is recommended
that all Ca supplied to fruiting vegetables be applied via the
irrigation water so as to maximize uptake by roots


And BER set in anyway. No
water stress such as dry roots. I water every day as it is quite warm
and the pots dry fast. This is maddening because I lost so many
tomatoes last year to BER. Just how much more can one do?

"Jeff Thies" wrote in message
...
Jeff Thies wrote:
Paul M. Cook wrote:
So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer

I don't think this is the right fertilizer for tomatoes (although it is
what I in my ignorance used), it has too much nitrogen. It's something
like 511.

I found this:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...ing_plus/73178

So, the fish fert may not be your cause, but it does not help and may
indeed hurt.

Jeff

and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water.

http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubs/PDF/C938.pdf


Although some people believe foliar sprays can correct Ca deficiency in
developing fruits, research is very inconclusive on this issue. What is
well known is that Ca only moves in the plant via the xylem and moves with
the transpirational water flow from the roots, up the plant and into
developing leaves. Calcium has no ability to flow from the leaves via the
phloem to the developing fruit. In addition, once fruit has grown to golf
ball size, the waxy outer layer has developed and is believed to be quite
impermeable to water. Therefore, it is recommended that all Ca supplied to
fruiting vegetables be applied via the irrigation water so as to maximize
uptake by roots


Sigh. I was using the fish emulsion as it was recommended. I posted
earlier about using the foliar spray as irrigation water and was told it was
less effective that way. So what the heck, I will add it to the irrigation
water. I try to keep the soil from drying out. My pots get a gallon of
water a day and if I do not water in the morning I get a little wilt by
afternoon. This whole uniform water has me puzzled. I mean those plants do
grow in the wild and surely a consistently moist soil is not something they
enjoy. I can see BER is more of a challenge in container gardening.

Paul

Paul M. Cook wrote:
"Jeff Thies" wrote in message
...
Jeff Thies wrote:
Paul M. Cook wrote:
So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer
I don't think this is the right fertilizer for tomatoes (although it is
what I in my ignorance used), it has too much nitrogen. It's something
like 511.

I found this:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...ing_plus/73178

So, the fish fert may not be your cause, but it does not help and may
indeed hurt.

Jeff

and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water.
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubs/PDF/C938.pdf


Although some people believe foliar sprays can correct Ca deficiency in
developing fruits, research is very inconclusive on this issue. What is
well known is that Ca only moves in the plant via the xylem and moves with
the transpirational water flow from the roots, up the plant and into
developing leaves. Calcium has no ability to flow from the leaves via the
phloem to the developing fruit. In addition, once fruit has grown to golf
ball size, the waxy outer layer has developed and is believed to be quite
impermeable to water. Therefore, it is recommended that all Ca supplied to
fruiting vegetables be applied via the irrigation water so as to maximize
uptake by roots


Sigh. I was using the fish emulsion as it was recommended. I posted
earlier about using the foliar spray as irrigation water and was told it was
less effective that way. So what the heck, I will add it to the irrigation
water. I try to keep the soil from drying out. My pots get a gallon of
water a day and if I do not water in the morning I get a little wilt by
afternoon. This whole uniform water has me puzzled. I mean those plants do
grow in the wild

Not so sure about that. The wild tomato is a completely different
vegetable than what we grow.

and surely a consistently moist soil is not something they
enjoy. I can see BER is more of a challenge in container gardening.

I don't know that much about container gardening. I have noticed that
being in a container loses the moisture tempering of being in ground.
I've seen both standing water in containers and containers that were
completely dry, even though it had been raining for days not long
before. Soil and drainage is much more critical in containers, it is
also much easier to control.

To make the whole BER thing more complex, it appears that calcium can
be displaced by other ions or cations that may be in your soil. So, you
may not have good tomato soil without ever knowing it.

Jeff

Paul

Paul M. Cook said:


So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water. And BER set in anyway. No water
stress such as dry roots. I water every day as it is quite warm and the
pots dry fast. This is maddening because I lost so many tomatoes last year
to BER. Just how much more can one do?


Use *much* larger pots.

If you have a layer of gravel at the bottom of the pots "for drainage" stop
doing that.

Shade the pots by setting them in a wooden box (no bottom needed)
or, use large foam or double-walled pots.

Set up a drip irrigation system so the pots stay evenly moist.

Some varieties are more prone to BER than others. Sadly, this is not
something that is discussed in catalog descriptions and it's rarely brought
up anywhere else. That's too bad, really. It would be useful information.

'Green Zebra' is a variety that has proven to be consistantly prone to
BER in my garden. Liked the tomato, but stopped growing it because
of this fault. It would suffer BER when no other variety did.

Long, pointed varieties (plum tomatoes, for example) are prone to BER.

'Early Girl' may be very popular but (in my experience) it is slightly more
prone to BER than other small, round, quick maturing varieties.


--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Vegetables are like bombs packed tight with all kinds of important
nutrients..." --Largo Potter, Valkyria Chronicles

email valid but not regularly monitored

On 6/19/2010 1:24 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
"Jeff wrote in message
...
Jeff Thies wrote:
Paul M. Cook wrote:
So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer

I don't think this is the right fertilizer for tomatoes (although it is
what I in my ignorance used), it has too much nitrogen. It's something
like 511.

I found this:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...ing_plus/73178

So, the fish fert may not be your cause, but it does not help and may
indeed hurt.

Jeff

and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water.

http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubs/PDF/C938.pdf


Although some people believe foliar sprays can correct Ca deficiency in
developing fruits, research is very inconclusive on this issue. What is
well known is that Ca only moves in the plant via the xylem and moves with
the transpirational water flow from the roots, up the plant and into
developing leaves. Calcium has no ability to flow from the leaves via the
phloem to the developing fruit. In addition, once fruit has grown to golf
ball size, the waxy outer layer has developed and is believed to be quite
impermeable to water. Therefore, it is recommended that all Ca supplied to
fruiting vegetables be applied via the irrigation water so as to maximize
uptake by roots


Sigh. I was using the fish emulsion as it was recommended. I posted
earlier about using the foliar spray as irrigation water and was told it was
less effective that way. So what the heck, I will add it to the irrigation
water. I try to keep the soil from drying out. My pots get a gallon of
water a day and if I do not water in the morning I get a little wilt by
afternoon. This whole uniform water has me puzzled. I mean those plants do
grow in the wild and surely a consistently moist soil is not something they
enjoy. I can see BER is more of a challenge in container gardening.

Paul


Think I am doing the same as you except I add a handful of pelletized
limestone mixed in before planting and fertilize with a mixed garden
fertilizer. When BER showed up several years ago, the limestone cured
it. I also water a lot but pots will drain from bottom container if
excessive, like a big rain.

It's still early in the season here and correction of problem could save
rest of crop.

Frank wrote:
On 6/19/2010 1:24 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
"Jeff wrote in message
...
Jeff Thies wrote:
Paul M. Cook wrote:
So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer

I don't think this is the right fertilizer for tomatoes (although
it is what I in my ignorance used), it has too much nitrogen.
It's
something like 511.

I found this:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...ing_plus/73178

So, the fish fert may not be your cause, but it does not help
and may indeed hurt.

Jeff

and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water.

http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubs/PDF/C938.pdf


Although some people believe foliar sprays can correct Ca
deficiency in developing fruits, research is very inconclusive on
this issue. What is well known is that Ca only moves in the plant
via the xylem and moves with the transpirational water flow from
the roots, up the plant and into developing leaves. Calcium has no
ability to flow from the leaves via the phloem to the developing
fruit. In addition, once fruit has grown to golf ball size, the
waxy outer layer has developed and is believed to be quite
impermeable to water. Therefore, it is recommended that all Ca
supplied to fruiting vegetables be applied via the irrigation
water
so as to maximize uptake by roots


Sigh. I was using the fish emulsion as it was recommended. I
posted
earlier about using the foliar spray as irrigation water and was
told it was less effective that way. So what the heck, I will add
it to the irrigation water. I try to keep the soil from drying
out.
My pots get a gallon of water a day and if I do not water in the
morning I get a little wilt by afternoon. This whole uniform water
has me puzzled. I mean those plants do grow in the wild and surely
a consistently moist soil is not something they enjoy. I can see
BER is more of a challenge in container gardening. Paul


Think I am doing the same as you except I add a handful of
pelletized
limestone mixed in before planting and fertilize with a mixed garden
fertilizer. When BER showed up several years ago, the limestone
cured
it.

It's been years since I had tomatos with BER. That's when I started
getting my soil tested. I use dolomitic limestone to adjust the PH
and it's worked fine for me for at least 25 years!!

Tom J

In article
,
Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Paul M. Cook said:


So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water. And BER set in anyway. No water
stress such as dry roots. I water every day as it is quite warm and the
pots dry fast. This is maddening because I lost so many tomatoes last year
to BER. Just how much more can one do?


Use *much* larger pots.

If you have a layer of gravel at the bottom of the pots "for drainage" stop
doing that.

Shade the pots by setting them in a wooden box (no bottom needed)
or, use large foam or double-walled pots.

Set up a drip irrigation system so the pots stay evenly moist.

Some varieties are more prone to BER than others. Sadly, this is not
something that is discussed in catalog descriptions and it's rarely brought
up anywhere else. That's too bad, really. It would be useful information.

'Green Zebra' is a variety that has proven to be consistantly prone to
BER in my garden. Liked the tomato, but stopped growing it because
of this fault. It would suffer BER when no other variety did.

Long, pointed varieties (plum tomatoes, for example) are prone to BER.

'Early Girl' may be very popular but (in my experience) it is slightly more
prone to BER than other small, round, quick maturing varieties.

Last year, a third of my San Marzanos had BER. Not a third of the
plants, but a third of the crop.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

"Jeff Thies" wrote in message
...
Paul M. Cook wrote:
"Jeff Thies" wrote in message
...
Jeff Thies wrote:
Paul M. Cook wrote:
So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer
I don't think this is the right fertilizer for tomatoes (although it is
what I in my ignorance used), it has too much nitrogen. It's something
like 511.

I found this:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...ing_plus/73178

So, the fish fert may not be your cause, but it does not help and may
indeed hurt.

Jeff

and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water.
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubs/PDF/C938.pdf


Although some people believe foliar sprays can correct Ca deficiency in
developing fruits, research is very inconclusive on this issue. What is
well known is that Ca only moves in the plant via the xylem and moves
with the transpirational water flow from the roots, up the plant and
into developing leaves. Calcium has no ability to flow from the leaves
via the phloem to the developing fruit. In addition, once fruit has
grown to golf ball size, the waxy outer layer has developed and is
believed to be quite impermeable to water. Therefore, it is recommended
that all Ca supplied to fruiting vegetables be applied via the
irrigation water so as to maximize uptake by roots


Sigh. I was using the fish emulsion as it was recommended. I posted
earlier about using the foliar spray as irrigation water and was told it
was less effective that way. So what the heck, I will add it to the
irrigation water. I try to keep the soil from drying out. My pots get a
gallon of water a day and if I do not water in the morning I get a little
wilt by afternoon. This whole uniform water has me puzzled. I mean
those plants do grow in the wild

Not so sure about that. The wild tomato is a completely different
vegetable than what we grow.

and surely a consistently moist soil is not something they
enjoy. I can see BER is more of a challenge in container gardening.

I don't know that much about container gardening. I have noticed that
being in a container loses the moisture tempering of being in ground. I've
seen both standing water in containers and containers that were completely
dry, even though it had been raining for days not long before. Soil and
drainage is much more critical in containers, it is also much easier to
control.

To make the whole BER thing more complex, it appears that calcium can be
displaced by other ions or cations that may be in your soil. So, you may
not have good tomato soil without ever knowing it.


How about just sticking some calcium tablets into the soil? I don't need 25
pounds of lime just for my few pots.

Paul

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Paul M. Cook said:


So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water. And BER set in anyway. No water
stress such as dry roots. I water every day as it is quite warm and the
pots dry fast. This is maddening because I lost so many tomatoes last
year
to BER. Just how much more can one do?


Use *much* larger pots.

These are 18 gallon pots, they hold 2 cubic feet of soil each.

If you have a layer of gravel at the bottom of the pots "for drainage"
stop
doing that.

I just drilled 1/2 inch holes in the bottom for drainage. Works pretty
good.

Shade the pots by setting them in a wooden box (no bottom needed)
or, use large foam or double-walled pots.

Set up a drip irrigation system so the pots stay evenly moist.

At the rate I am going my tomatoes will cost me about 20 bucks a pound.
Just cut 2 more with BER.

Some varieties are more prone to BER than others. Sadly, this is not
something that is discussed in catalog descriptions and it's rarely
brought
up anywhere else. That's too bad, really. It would be useful
information.

I have Celebrity and yellow pear going at the moment. I am thinking the
Celebrity is one I will not try again. The yellow pear did well last year
and so far this year no BER.

'Green Zebra' is a variety that has proven to be consistantly prone to
BER in my garden. Liked the tomato, but stopped growing it because
of this fault. It would suffer BER when no other variety did.

Long, pointed varieties (plum tomatoes, for example) are prone to BER.

'Early Girl' may be very popular but (in my experience) it is slightly
more
prone to BER than other small, round, quick maturing varieties.

I'll probably stick to patio from now on.

Paul

In article ,
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:


How about just sticking some calcium tablets into the soil? I don't need 25
pounds of lime just for my few pots.

Paul

Well I'd guess that the calcium tablets about 6 oz. might cost close
to 25 lb. of dolomite and the lime won't go bad.
Growing with containers looks like small mistakes in the garden are
focused or easier to make. I try to get stuff out of pots and into the
ground then back into a pot if it is a houseplant late fall.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
http://ocg6.marine.usf.edu/~liu/Drif...atest_roms.htm

"Bill who putters" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Paul M. Cook" wrote:


How about just sticking some calcium tablets into the soil? I don't need
25
pounds of lime just for my few pots.

Paul

Well I'd guess that the calcium tablets about 6 oz. might cost close
to 25 lb. of dolomite and the lime won't go bad.
Growing with containers looks like small mistakes in the garden are
focused or easier to make. I try to get stuff out of pots and into the
ground then back into a pot if it is a houseplant late fall.


Hmmm ... how much dolomite should I add to a 22 inch pot with 2 cubic feet
of soil? Or does it matter? I mean the plant will take it up as needed.
Can you overdose?

Paul

On 6/18/10 10:24 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote [in part]:

I mean those plants do
grow in the wild and surely a consistently moist soil is not something they
enjoy. I can see BER is more of a challenge in container gardening.

Paul

I'm quite sure you will not find tomato plants of the type you want
growing in the wild. Even heritage tomatoes represent decades or
centuries of selective breeding.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

Pat Kiewicz wrote:
Paul M. Cook said:

So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer and I
sprayed the leaves with calcium water. And BER set in anyway. No water
stress such as dry roots. I water every day as it is quite warm and the
pots dry fast. This is maddening because I lost so many tomatoes last year
to BER. Just how much more can one do?


Use *much* larger pots.

I have a friend growing tomatoes in 10" to 12" pots. I know the tomato
has a huge root system and I usually see them in 5 gallon paint buckets.
Is she on a fools errand?


If you have a layer of gravel at the bottom of the pots "for drainage" stop
doing that.

Why is that?

Shade the pots by setting them in a wooden box (no bottom needed)
or, use large foam or double-walled pots.

Set up a drip irrigation system so the pots stay evenly moist.

Some varieties are more prone to BER than others. Sadly, this is not
something that is discussed in catalog descriptions and it's rarely brought
up anywhere else. That's too bad, really. It would be useful information.

I've hear that some packages have BER on them to signify resistance.

'Green Zebra' is a variety that has proven to be consistantly prone to
BER in my garden. Liked the tomato, but stopped growing it because
of this fault. It would suffer BER when no other variety did.

Long, pointed varieties (plum tomatoes, for example) are prone to BER.

'Early Girl' may be very popular but (in my experience) it is slightly more
prone to BER than other small, round, quick maturing varieties.

Found this uber technical bit on BER:

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/571

Any comments on eggshells? I've got a lot ground up in my soil. It
would seem the calcium release would be slow, probably too slow.

Jeff