Hello All,

I am in the process of planning a raised garden behind my new house. The raised area is around 6m long and 7m wide ending in a tall embankment. Half of it gets strong sunshine till around 14:00h during the summer and is then in the shade. The other half, including the embankment, remains exposed to sunshine till late in the evening during the summer months.

I will be building walls to raise the area to be able to walk out of the French windows at the back of my house. I need to backfill and then put top soil to a height of 1.2m. I have several questions

a. How much top soil, i.e. depth, should I put in. By and large what we will have there will be a mixture of herbs, leek, cabbages, carrots etc. Some flowers a couple of apple trees and perhaps a cherry tree.

b. What do I need to know about the type of top soil to use - I live in Luxembourg. We get around 900mm of rain per year and the soil is very well drained.

c. How can I put the embankment to good use - it rises to a height of around 12m at an angle of around 25° (quite steep) and is currently covered in brambles and the like

I'd much appreciate any help

In article ,
FredAt wrote:

Hello All,

I am in the process of planning a raised garden behind my new house. The
raised area is around 6m long and 7m wide ending in a tall embankment.
Half of it gets strong sunshine till around 14:00h during the summer and
is then in the shade. The other half, including the embankment, remains
exposed to sunshine till late in the evening during the summer months.

I will be building walls to raise the area to be able to walk out of the
French windows at the back of my house. I need to backfill and then put
top soil to a height of 1.2m. I have several questions

a. How much top soil, i.e. depth, should I put in. By and large what we
will have there will be a mixture of herbs, leek, cabbages, carrots etc.
..6 meters of top soil would be fine.
Some flowers a couple of apple trees and perhaps a cherry tree.
One apple, or cherry tree can be 9 meters wide, you could espalier them
against a wall, but they do take a lot of space.

b. What do I need to know about the type of top soil to use - I live in
Luxembourg. We get around 900mm of rain per year and the soil is very
well drained.
Good garden soil is 30-40% sand, 30-40% silt, and 10-20% clay with
organic matter being 5-10% of the preceding mix.

c. How can I put the embankment to good use - it rises to a height of
around 12m at an angle of around 25° (quite steep) and is currently
covered in brambles and the like
What is its orientation to your planned garden, north, south, east, or
west of it? If to the north or east, it may be a good spot to espalier
your fruit trees, you could put in terraces for more vegetables or
ornamentals.

If you aren't planning on gardening this year, I'd suggest sowing with
buckwheat, or rye, or a general mix of "green manure".
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/M1228.html
http://www.uvm.edu/vtvegandberry/factsheets/covercrops.html

The easiest way to make your garden is with a no-dig lasagna garden.
http://organicgardening.about.com/od...en/a/lasagnaga
rden.htm

Personally, I lay down my soil amendments (chicken manure, bone meal,
wood ash) over any weeds that may be in the garden area. That is then
covered with newspaper (most newsprint in the US, and I presume Europe,
is soy based ink, check with the printer) or cardboard, and this then is
covered with organic mulch (I use alfalfa/lucerne) to a depth of 10 - 60
cm. Spray the garden beds with water until they are thoroughly soaked
and then wait 2 - 6 weeks before planting. I must admit that sometimes I
plant immediately, but I run the risk of weeds when I do.
I'd much appreciate any help

Gut glück, bonne chance, and all that sort of thing.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

Billy wrote:
In article ,
FredAt wrote:

Hello All,

I am in the process of planning a raised garden behind my new house.
The raised area is around 6m long and 7m wide ending in a tall
embankment. Half of it gets strong sunshine till around 14:00h
during the summer and is then in the shade. The other half,
including the embankment, remains exposed to sunshine till late in
the evening during the summer months.

I will be building walls to raise the area to be able to walk out of
the French windows at the back of my house. I need to backfill and
then put top soil to a height of 1.2m. I have several questions

a. How much top soil, i.e. depth, should I put in. By and large
what we will have there will be a mixture of herbs, leek, cabbages,
carrots etc.
.6 meters of top soil would be fine.
Some flowers a couple of apple trees and perhaps a cherry tree.
One apple, or cherry tree can be 9 meters wide, you could espalier
them against a wall, but they do take a lot of space.

b. What do I need to know about the type of top soil to use - I live
in Luxembourg. We get around 900mm of rain per year and the soil is
very well drained.
Good garden soil is 30-40% sand, 30-40% silt, and 10-20% clay with
organic matter being 5-10% of the preceding mix.

c. How can I put the embankment to good use - it rises to a height of
around 12m at an angle of around 25° (quite steep) and is currently
covered in brambles and the like
What is its orientation to your planned garden, north, south, east, or
west of it? If to the north or east, it may be a good spot to espalier
your fruit trees, you could put in terraces for more vegetables or
ornamentals.

If you aren't planning on gardening this year, I'd suggest sowing with
buckwheat, or rye, or a general mix of "green manure".
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/M1228.html
http://www.uvm.edu/vtvegandberry/factsheets/covercrops.html

The easiest way to make your garden is with a no-dig lasagna garden.
http://organicgardening.about.com/od...en/a/lasagnaga
rden.htm

Personally, I lay down my soil amendments (chicken manure, bone meal,
wood ash) over any weeds that may be in the garden area. That is then
covered with newspaper (most newsprint in the US, and I presume
Europe, is soy based ink, check with the printer) or cardboard, and
this then is covered with organic mulch (I use alfalfa/lucerne) to a
depth of 10 - 60 cm. Spray the garden beds with water until they are
thoroughly soaked and then wait 2 - 6 weeks before planting. I must
admit that sometimes I plant immediately, but I run the risk of weeds
when I do.
I'd much appreciate any help

Gut glück, bonne chance, and all that sort of thing.

Billy

You have missed the point. The OP wants to build the area up, he is talking
of the order of 50 cubic metres of fill if read him correctly, that's a lot
of lasagne.

David

FredAt wrote:
Hello All,

I am in the process of planning a raised garden behind my new house.
The raised area is around 6m long and 7m wide ending in a tall
embankment. Half of it gets strong sunshine till around 14:00h during
the summer and is then in the shade. The other half, including the
embankment, remains exposed to sunshine till late in the evening
during the summer months.


Put your fruit trees and productive vegetables that need full sun in the
latter half if you can manage. You can get quite a range of flowers,
shrubs, and veges that will do with half sun in the other area.

I will be building walls to raise the area to be able to walk out of
the French windows at the back of my house. I need to backfill and
then put top soil to a height of 1.2m. I have several questions

a. How much top soil, i.e. depth, should I put in. By and large what
we will have there will be a mixture of herbs, leek, cabbages,
carrots etc. Some flowers a couple of apple trees and perhaps a
cherry tree.

Most of your veges will do fine in 40cm of soil, many are shallow rooted and
20cm will do but to have the option of rotating them make it all the same.
It depends on the cost whether it is worth using cheaper "clean fill"
underneath and garden loam on top or all loam. Your trees will do better if
the soil is the full 1.2 m or deeper Always remember that any earthwork,
especially major works, must be planned with drainage in mind. You need to
know where the ground water runs now and what your fill will do to that
flow. You don't want to do what I have seen done, where the first time
heavy rain fell all the water ran straight to the back door and into the
house.


b. What do I need to know about the type of top soil to use - I live
in Luxembourg. We get around 900mm of rain per year and the soil is
very well drained.


The best garden loam that you can afford. See above.

c. How can I put the embankment to good use - it rises to a height of
around 12m at an angle of around 25° (quite steep) and is currently
covered in brambles and the like

I'd much appreciate any help

This is quite steep for any regular cultivation. If you wanted to have
walks and made gardens there you would probably have to terrace it. If you
don't want to go there then replace the brambles with shrubs, perenial
flowers, ground cover etc that will be low maintanance and help to stabilise
the bank. How does the water run off this bank now?

A trip to the local library and some study of books on garden design and
layout would be well worth the time.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
FredAt wrote:

Hello All,

I am in the process of planning a raised garden behind my new house.
The raised area is around 6m long and 7m wide ending in a tall
embankment. Half of it gets strong sunshine till around 14:00h
during the summer and is then in the shade. The other half,
including the embankment, remains exposed to sunshine till late in
the evening during the summer months.

I will be building walls to raise the area to be able to walk out of
the French windows at the back of my house. I need to backfill and
then put top soil to a height of 1.2m. I have several questions

a. How much top soil, i.e. depth, should I put in. By and large
what we will have there will be a mixture of herbs, leek, cabbages,
carrots etc.
.6 meters of top soil would be fine.
Some flowers a couple of apple trees and perhaps a cherry tree.
One apple, or cherry tree can be 9 meters wide, you could espalier
them against a wall, but they do take a lot of space.

b. What do I need to know about the type of top soil to use - I live
in Luxembourg. We get around 900mm of rain per year and the soil is
very well drained.
Good garden soil is 30-40% sand, 30-40% silt, and 10-20% clay with
organic matter being 5-10% of the preceding mix.

c. How can I put the embankment to good use - it rises to a height of
around 12m at an angle of around 25° (quite steep) and is currently
covered in brambles and the like
What is its orientation to your planned garden, north, south, east, or
west of it? If to the north or east, it may be a good spot to espalier
your fruit trees, you could put in terraces for more vegetables or
ornamentals.

If you aren't planning on gardening this year, I'd suggest sowing with
buckwheat, or rye, or a general mix of "green manure".
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/M1228.html
http://www.uvm.edu/vtvegandberry/factsheets/covercrops.html

The easiest way to make your garden is with a no-dig lasagna garden.
http://organicgardening.about.com/od...en/a/lasagnaga
rden.htm

Personally, I lay down my soil amendments (chicken manure, bone meal,
wood ash) over any weeds that may be in the garden area. That is then
covered with newspaper (most newsprint in the US, and I presume
Europe, is soy based ink, check with the printer) or cardboard, and
this then is covered with organic mulch (I use alfalfa/lucerne) to a
depth of 10 - 60 cm. Spray the garden beds with water until they are
thoroughly soaked and then wait 2 - 6 weeks before planting. I must
admit that sometimes I plant immediately, but I run the risk of weeds
when I do.
I'd much appreciate any help

Gut glück, bonne chance, and all that sort of thing.

Billy

You have missed the point. The OP wants to build the area up, he is talking
of the order of 50 cubic metres of fill if read him correctly, that's a lot
of lasagne.

David

Garden
6m long and 7m wide (suggested 2 ft. deep)
= 20' X 23' 4" X 2'
= 936 cu. ft. = 26.5 cu. meters

Surface area = 466 sq. ft. = 43.3 sq. meters

Mulch = 466 sq. ft. X 2' = 932 sq. ft. = 26.4 cu. meters max.
= 466 sq. ft. X.3' = 140 sq. ft. = 4 cu. meters min.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

On Mon, 24 May 2010 21:44:13 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
FredAt wrote:

Hello All,

I am in the process of planning a raised garden behind my new house.
The raised area is around 6m long and 7m wide ending in a tall
embankment. Half of it gets strong sunshine till around 14:00h
during the summer and is then in the shade. The other half,
including the embankment, remains exposed to sunshine till late in
the evening during the summer months.

I will be building walls to raise the area to be able to walk out of
the French windows at the back of my house. I need to backfill and
then put top soil to a height of 1.2m. I have several questions

a. How much top soil, i.e. depth, should I put in. By and large
what we will have there will be a mixture of herbs, leek, cabbages,
carrots etc.
.6 meters of top soil would be fine.
Some flowers a couple of apple trees and perhaps a cherry tree.
One apple, or cherry tree can be 9 meters wide, you could espalier
them against a wall, but they do take a lot of space.

b. What do I need to know about the type of top soil to use - I live
in Luxembourg. We get around 900mm of rain per year and the soil is
very well drained.
Good garden soil is 30-40% sand, 30-40% silt, and 10-20% clay with
organic matter being 5-10% of the preceding mix.

c. How can I put the embankment to good use - it rises to a height of
around 12m at an angle of around 25° (quite steep) and is currently
covered in brambles and the like
What is its orientation to your planned garden, north, south, east, or
west of it? If to the north or east, it may be a good spot to espalier
your fruit trees, you could put in terraces for more vegetables or
ornamentals.

If you aren't planning on gardening this year, I'd suggest sowing with
buckwheat, or rye, or a general mix of "green manure".
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/M1228.html
http://www.uvm.edu/vtvegandberry/factsheets/covercrops.html

The easiest way to make your garden is with a no-dig lasagna garden.
http://organicgardening.about.com/od...en/a/lasagnaga
rden.htm

Personally, I lay down my soil amendments (chicken manure, bone meal,
wood ash) over any weeds that may be in the garden area. That is then
covered with newspaper (most newsprint in the US, and I presume
Europe, is soy based ink, check with the printer) or cardboard, and
this then is covered with organic mulch (I use alfalfa/lucerne) to a
depth of 10 - 60 cm. Spray the garden beds with water until they are
thoroughly soaked and then wait 2 - 6 weeks before planting. I must
admit that sometimes I plant immediately, but I run the risk of weeds
when I do.
I'd much appreciate any help

Gut glück, bonne chance, and all that sort of thing.

Billy

You have missed the point. The OP wants to build the area up, he is talking
of the order of 50 cubic metres of fill if read him correctly, that's a lot
of lasagne.

David

Garden
6m long and 7m wide (suggested 2 ft. deep)
= 20' X 23' 4" X 2'
= 936 cu. ft. = 26.5 cu. meters

In the US that's three 10 cu yd dump truck loads... that's a lotta
dirt... and for high quality top soil mucho dinero.

And still that raised bed won't be large enough for 2 semi dwarf fruit
trees, even for dwarf it would be iffy.... and even if the trees grow
the bed would be in shade. Trees do better in a berm.

Surface area = 466 sq. ft. = 43.3 sq. meters

Mulch = 466 sq. ft. X 2' = 932 sq. ft. = 26.4 cu. meters max.
= 466 sq. ft. X.3' = 140 sq. ft. = 4 cu. meters min.

For the incline, I'd use a terraced area. Even a foot at a time
or what you like to see that is pleasing to the eye.
--
Bud

Thank you for all the replies and the various links. I have done much of the drainage around the house myself so I have a fair idea of what I need to do in the garden area. I still have a couple of questions

a. As things stand the area is covered with a mix of weeds and garden plants (the place used to be somebody's garden). Given that I will be backfilling to a height of around 0.8m and then putting top soil do I need to destroy the weeds first or can I simply rely on them being smothered by the backfill - I have already used this material for my driveway and know that weeds don't like it much.

b. One of the things I have considered doing on the embankment is making a mini vineyard. I live not too far from the Moselle (really good Luxemburgeois white wine) and I have noticed that many of the gardens in the village have vines. On the Moselle I have noted that the vines are planted on really steep slopes.

I do have a fair bit of earth moving to do. By estimates around 10 cubic meters of backfill and then 18 cubic meters of top soil - all to be done with a Kubota mini excavator given that access to the garden is limited to a width of around 1.5m.

It is going to be mid to late September by the time I finish all this so not much chance of doing any gardening this year. What would be the best thing to do between then and the Srping of next year?

I should mention that garden is oriented NE-SW. The embankment is at the rear of the garden and is exposed to bright sunshine pretty much all the time when there is no cloud cover. The other half of the "garden" gets around 2-4h of sunshine before it finds itself in the shade of the house itself.

Thank you for the link to the "Lasagne" site. As someone else pointed out given the volume I need to cover it is not practicable but I will be able to put the information to good use later.

In article ,
FredAt wrote:

Thank you for all the replies and the various links. I have done much
of the drainage around the house myself so I have a fair idea of what I
need to do in the garden area. I still have a couple of questions

a. As things stand the area is covered with a mix of weeds and garden
plants (the place used to be somebody's garden). Given that I will be
backfilling to a height of around 0.8m and then putting top soil do I
need to destroy the weeds first or can I simply rely on them being
smothered by the backfill - I have already used this material for my
driveway and know that weeds don't like it much.

b. One of the things I have considered doing on the embankment is making
a mini vineyard. I live not too far from the Moselle (really good
Luxemburgeois white wine) and I have noticed that many of the gardens in
the village have vines. On the Moselle I have noted that the vines are
planted on really steep slopes.
I'd call them cliffs, masquerading as vineyards. The steepness allows
the soil to dry out, and warm up as in Bernkastel.

I do have a fair bit of earth moving to do. By estimates around 10 cubic
meters of backfill and then 18 cubic meters of top soil - all to be done
with a Kubota mini excavator given that access to the garden is limited
to a width of around 1.5m.

It is going to be mid to late September by the time I finish all this so
not much chance of doing any gardening this year. What would be the best
thing to do between then and the Srping of next year?

I should mention that garden is oriented NE-SW. The embankment is at the
rear of the garden and is exposed to bright sunshine pretty much all the
time when there is no cloud cover. The other half of the "garden" gets
around 2-4h of sunshine before it finds itself in the shade of the house
itself.
If you mean that the slope faces (descends from the north-east) to the
south-west, that would be very good. How does the steepness of the slope
compare with other wine growers in your area? Sometimes it is good to
have stones in the vineyard to hold the daytime heat, into the night.

Thank you for the link to the "Lasagne" site. As someone else pointed
out given the volume I need to cover it is not practicable but I will be
able to put the information to good use later.

Lasagna gardening, is no dig gardening. This is good for your back, and
good for the soil, if it is well fed.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

The embankment descends from SW to NE. The slope is comparable with what I have seen on the Moselle.

In article ,
FredAt wrote:

The embankment descends from SW to NE. The slope is comparable with what
I have seen on the Moselle.
NE SW
/ \
light --- / \ --- shadow
/ \
SW NE


It is highest in the SW and lowest in the NE? Find some pretty flowers
to plant. You are already at the northern limt of grape growing and you
need every advantage. Go to Google Maps, "Bernkastel-Kues, Deutschland".
You will see that the vineyards are on the eastern bank of the Moselle
and face the SW. If you follow the Moselle downstream, towards Koblenz,
you will see no vineyards on the southern bank, facing north.

Check with a local Winzer (vigneron) to determine the possibility of a
successful vineyard on this slope.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

It has been a while since I posted my original question here. Building the retaining wall, putting in the drainage, packing in the soil etc has taken me the best part of six months.

Now I find myself in the middle of November and wondering whether there is anything I can do with my new "garden". One of the things I have on my list is a couple of apple trees. I have noted that the right time to plant apple trees is October to December. The garden itself is far too shady to handle apple trees. However, I do have the option of planting a couple apple trees at the front of my house where they will get 6+ hours of sunshine through the spring/summerr months.

My question - what sort of varieties will I be able to grow here, Luxembourg. I would like to have dwarf trees since they are more manageble and I don't have vast amounts of space.

I'd much appreciate any help