On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:13:04 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
Bob wrote:

Again, absolutely no experience with this

WTF?

If you're done with this silliness, here's the complete quote that you
snipped:

- ... the sod will just be
- used as a 'floor' in enclosures. I suppose I'll have to get some
- kind of a large pan, and possibly punch holes in the bottom to make
- sure it doesn't get too wet (that was the mistake made on the first
- smaller scale test). Again, absolutely no experience with this,

So to recap:
Experience with growing 3' * 3' clumps of grass: None
Experience rescuing animals: Lots

Please be done with the judgemental thing soon, OK? Do you have
practical advice on the question that was posted?

In article ,
Bob wrote:


Nice to know that people are concerned for the animals. While I
appreciate that advice, I have to wonder how this got off track. Let
me emphasize: I do have licensing, I've been doing this for years, and
any animal in my care gets the best veterinary care available, etc.

What type Lincense ?

do have a background in microbiology

So what is a background?

, so I know about rabies and other
zoonotics.

And 'homesick' was a convenient term...animals do get
stressed when in foreign environments. I hope that clarifies things.

No you said words that said nothing

What I don't know is gardening. So again, I appreciate those who have
provided practical advice, and hope this hasn't run too far off track.

Called me a loon with your qualifications get real.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
-Philo of Alexandria

http://www.youtube.com/usnationalarchives

Bob wrote in
:

Nice to know that people are concerned for the animals. While I
appreciate that advice, I have to wonder how this got off track.
Let me emphasize: I do have licensing, I've been doing this for
years, and any animal in my care gets the best veterinary care
available, etc. I do have a background in microbiology, so I
know about rabies and other zoonotics. And 'homesick' was a
convenient term...animals do get stressed when in foreign
environments. I hope that clarifies things.

somewhat. but if you use proper terms you don't sound so much like
a bleeding heart animal nutter... and are more likely to get better
information.
since you understand microbiology & zoonotics, you should
understand why keeping your "patients" on grass is a less than
stellar idea. keep the easily cleaned substrate, & decorate the
pens with pots of grasses or non-poisonous plantings that can be
changed out to get sunlight or new plants. pots should be
sterilized between different patients.
i keep reptiles from several different areas of the world. one
NEVER mixes species from different areas, & one never moves any
items between the habitats unless it is sterilized first. this
keeps diseases from spreading.
this works exactly the same with rehab wild animals, because
squirrels from the upper end of Central Park may have immunities to
certain diseases that squirrels from Riverside don't.

What I don't know is gardening. So again, I appreciate those
who have provided practical advice, and hope this hasn't run too
far off track.

do you have access to your roof? it has a bit more area for growing
than the fire escape landings...
wheat & rye are fast growing grasses that do passably well in
pots. avoid fescues, as they can have neurotoxins (it's an endemic
fungal infection of many fescues. causes abortions in horses &
camelids. can kill goats & young camelids. may affect other
animals).
i keep pots of pothos going for the tortoises. pothos does ok in
low light situations & is edible (at least for animals). my Bell's
hingeback really decimates his...
lee

On Jun 23, 1:00*pm, Bob wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:11:45 -0700, Billy
wrote:

--SNIP-- of the idiot Billy conjecturing and posturing, followed by
a well-reasoned retort by someone who actually does and knows, as
opposed to the jerk with a keyboard who doesn't do and doesn't know.



Bob,

You have run into a couple of the resident loons, who are perfectly
willing to talk out of their a$$ about something they know absolutely
nothing about.

Here's where I fault you, though. ;-) You spotted them for what
they were, and yet wasted a few minutes of your life responding!
That was a waste of time, oxygen, and electrons.

A man much wiser than the Billdoes once said: "Never argue with
idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with
experience." Words to live by!

Of course, you stayed on the high road and soundly beat 'em both,
but still... ;-)


Mc

In article
,
wrote:

On Jun 23, 1:00*pm, Bob wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:11:45 -0700, Billy
wrote:

--SNIP-- of the idiot Billy conjecturing and posturing, followed by
a well-reasoned retort by someone who actually does and knows, as
opposed to the jerk with a keyboard who doesn't do and doesn't know.



Bob,

You have run into a couple of the resident loons, who are perfectly
willing to talk out of their a$$ about something they know absolutely
nothing about.

Here's where I fault you, though. ;-) You spotted them for what
they were, and yet wasted a few minutes of your life responding!
That was a waste of time, oxygen, and electrons.

A man much wiser than the Billdoes once said: "Never argue with
idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with
experience." Words to live by!

Of course, you stayed on the high road and soundly beat 'em both,
but still... ;-)


Mc

And you smart ass have posted 12 times in the last 5 years.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
-Philo of Alexandria

http://www.youtube.com/usnationalarchives

On Jun 23, 1:07*pm, Bill who putters wrote:
In article ,

*Bob wrote:
Nice to know that people are concerned for the animals. *While I
appreciate that advice, I have to wonder how this got off track. *Let
me emphasize: I do have licensing, I've been doing this for years, and
any animal in my care gets the best veterinary care available, etc.

*What type Lincense ?

do have a background in microbiology

*So what is a background?

Something you completely lack here.


, so I know about rabies and other
zoonotics. *
And 'homesick' was a convenient term...animals do get
stressed when in foreign environments. *I hope that clarifies things.

*No you said words that said nothing

Those of us who get enough oxygen to our brains knew what he meant by
'homesick', and certainly even those with room-temperature IQs got it
after
he explained above.

Seriously, are you that thick? Or are you completely ignorant of the
matter
at hand? In which case, why are you responding? I know, I know,
because
you can. sigh



What I don't know is gardening. *So again, I appreciate those who have
provided practical advice, and hope this hasn't run too far off track.

* Called me a loon with your qualifications get real.

I'll call you a loon and I don't have half (any, really) the
qualifications Bob
does. Since you deem yourself worthy to criticize Bob, could you
tell
us YOUR qualifications in the subject of animal rescue?

(crickets)

What I thought. You ARE a loon.




*Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
*-Philo of Alexandria

http://www.youtube.com/usnationalarchives

wrote in

om:

What I thought. You ARE a loon.

at least loons are real. you're only a sock puppet.
lee

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:05:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Jun 23, 1:00*pm, Bob wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:11:45 -0700, Billy
wrote:

--SNIP-- of the idiot Billy conjecturing and posturing, followed by
a well-reasoned retort by someone who actually does and knows, as
opposed to the jerk with a keyboard who doesn't do and doesn't know.



Bob,

You have run into a couple of the resident loons, who are perfectly
willing to talk out of their a$$ about something they know absolutely
nothing about.

Here's where I fault you, though. ;-) You spotted them for what
they were, and yet wasted a few minutes of your life responding!
That was a waste of time, oxygen, and electrons.

Yeah, that kinda took me by surprise. I didn't expect quite that
reaction from a gardening group, and especially in regard to trying to
do some small amount of good in the world.

Anyway, I've sometimes encountered people who sound goofy but
eventually end up trying to help, so I try to be cautious. Apparently
that's not going to happen here. The guy who got uptight about the
Hoho's was pretty funny though. g That was excellent.

A man much wiser than the Billdoes once said: "Never argue with
idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with
experience." Words to live by!

Of course, you stayed on the high road and soundly beat 'em both,
but still... ;-)


Mc

Thanks for your kind reply, Mc. It does make a difference to hear
from the other side, just to know you're out there. There have been a
few other good posts in the thread, so there are some new things to .
pursue.

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:21:40 +0000 (UTC), enigma
wrote:

Bob wrote in
:

Nice to know that people are concerned for the animals. While I
appreciate that advice, I have to wonder how this got off track.
Let me emphasize: I do have licensing, I've been doing this for
years, and any animal in my care gets the best veterinary care
available, etc. I do have a background in microbiology, so I
know about rabies and other zoonotics. And 'homesick' was a
convenient term...animals do get stressed when in foreign
environments. I hope that clarifies things.

somewhat. but if you use proper terms you don't sound so much like
a bleeding heart animal nutter... and are more likely to get better
information.

If you could properly define "Bleeding heart animal nutter", I would
be more likely to know if I am one. Seriously, I don't know what
people mean by that. Perhaps you have to be a bit eccentric to go out
of your way to help animals and less fortunate people, etc. It's
definitely expensive, if that's the bottom line.

since you understand microbiology & zoonotics, you should
understand why keeping your "patients" on grass is a less than
stellar idea.

Mostly for a couple longer term inmates who aren't likely to be
released this summer. Areas won't be used by other animals, and these
guys don't have anything communicable. I could go on, but the
explanations really do seem over the top.

I'll just say that it's always a tradeoff-- no one can possibly
provide a perfect environment. Even the critters' original parks are
not a perfect environment. So I weigh the tradeoffs and make the best
decisions I can.

keep the easily cleaned substrate, & decorate the
pens with pots of grasses or non-poisonous plantings that can be
changed out to get sunlight or new plants. pots should be
sterilized between different patients.

That's the current status, though we don't have a lot of potted
plants. They limit floor space. Hence the interest in something they
could walk on, even if it needs to be swapped out periodically.

i keep reptiles from several different areas of the world. one
NEVER mixes species from different areas, & one never moves any
items between the habitats unless it is sterilized first. this
keeps diseases from spreading.

Right. And I don't. All animals undergoing antibiotic treatment or
with any possibility of contageon are isolated. That's not what we're
talking about in this case though.

this works exactly the same with rehab wild animals, because
squirrels from the upper end of Central Park may have immunities to
certain diseases that squirrels from Riverside don't.

I do know about immune system differences between subspecies, but I
believe you're referring to distance of about a mile or so, right?
Which particular immunities are you referring to?

What I don't know is gardening. So again, I appreciate those
who have provided practical advice, and hope this hasn't run too
far off track.

do you have access to your roof? it has a bit more area for growing
than the fire escape landings...

Yeah, that would be nice. Limited access though. That may be a good
longer-term goal.

wheat & rye are fast growing grasses that do passably well in
pots. avoid fescues, as they can have neurotoxins (it's an endemic
fungal infection of many fescues. causes abortions in horses &
camelids. can kill goats & young camelids. may affect other
animals).
i keep pots of pothos going for the tortoises. pothos does ok in
low light situations & is edible (at least for animals). my Bell's
hingeback really decimates his...
lee

That's the kind of info that I was looking for (though I wouldn't have
been considering fescues). I don't deal with reptiles much any more,
but that's also good info for those who do.

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:42:37 -0500, wrote:


Squirrels will appreciate sticks. They need to chew to keep their
teeth from growing too much. If you're indoors, perhaps leaves and
straw which could be cleaned out daily.

For grass and such, you can buy wheat grass at many supermarkets. Or
buy grass seed and sow it in pots.

Kate

Hi Kate. Your practical reply kind of caught me by surprise (the
thread has taken on a life of its own g).

Yeah, we provide sticks and limbs, and have people pick up driftwood,
etc. Their teeth grow constantly, and they need to keep them worn
down. A couple of the little guys think they're beavers; amazing how
much wood they can chomp through. We also build low structures out of
limbs for those who are safe climbing. (Some of the more severe
injuries need to be kept in low cages so they can't attempt to climb).

Re the 'mini-lawn': I first tried small test patch of grass, but it
probably had too little drainage. Not sure what our supermarkets
have, but I'll check that.

The indoor enclosures do have substrates, etc., but I try to take
advantage of our summer weather, especially for those who have been
cooped up for a while. The natural UV makes a big difference.

Seems like this question is off the beaten path. I suppose that most
are more familiar with growing grass lawns, but it occurs to me now
that this is relatively specialized. Maybe wishful thinking on my
part to be attempting the 'mini-lawn' thing.

Bob wrote in
:


That's the current status, though we don't have a lot of potted
plants. They limit floor space. Hence the interest in something
they could walk on, even if it needs to be swapped out
periodically.

ok, then, have you tried full spectrum UVB bulbs. i'd think they
would help with depression in the patients, and i know that they
work pretty well on the plants in my tort pens. i mostly use the
CFL UVB bulbs, but you can get tubes as well.
i would try getting some heavy duty jelly roll type pans from a
kitchen supply (or plastic boot trays maybe?) and punching several
drainage holes. if you know a sheet metal worker, you could get
actual 3x3 pans made, but jelly roll pans might be as close as
commercially available. fill with a sterile medium (even damp paper
towels) & sprout rye/wheat grass. those both grow pretty quickly,
so you might be wanting to start new trays at least weekly, so you
can swap out the too tall or trampled grass.

i'm not much on squirrels, but i've repaired a few raccoon & birds,
and a big brown bat with a torn wing (hint: bats do not stay in
bird cages g). i'm more into reptile repair myself. it's amazing
what a turtle can survive.
lee

On Jun 22, 5:22*pm, Bob wrote:
First: -I have no idea aboutgardening-. I'm trying to figure out how
to put down some 3' by 3' squares of turf for wildlife (small animals)
that we rescue. *I figure that will make them feel a little less
homesick during their stay.

I want to keep this as simple as possible, as the sod will just be
used as a 'floor' in enclosures. *I suppose I'll have to get some kind
of a large pan, and possibly punch holes in the bottom to make sure it
doesn't get too wet (that was the mistake made on the first smaller
scale test).

Again, absolutely no experience with this, so please post any ideas,
however elementary. *Need for how much soil underneath? *Design of
containing pan? How much *water? *Fertilizer? *Light? *(If possible,
I'd like to bring these inside in the winter, so maybe UV lights will
be required then)

Any ideas appreciated.


I'm sorry I don't know a lot about gardening so I can't help you
there. I think some of the ideas you have come up with are great and
you should try them. Obviously you've already discovered what doesn't
work.

I read some of you're other responses. I just wanted you to know that
I think it's a great thing what you're doing for the rescued animals.

On Jun 23, 2:28*pm, enigma wrote:
wrote
om:

What I thought. *You ARE a loon.

*at least loons are real. you're only a sock puppet.
lee

If by sock-puppet you mean that I have any personal relationship
with or knowledge of Bob, you are completely wrong. I am a
disinterested (regarding Bob and animal rescue) third party, but
not disinterested regarding rec.gardens.

The Billdoes have been acting like jerks and/or self-appointed
experts for a while now, I figured it was time they got called out.
Especially in this thread, where they just made it so EASY, I
couldn't resist.

Just so I understand where you're coming from, why are you
defending BillBilly in this thread?


Mc,pining for the days when a guy named Bill was one of
the most valuable contributors to rec.gardens, not the loons
we have today.

On Jun 23, 2:11*pm, Bill who putters wrote:

*And you smart ass have posted 12 times in the last 5 years. *


Make that 13. What, exactly, is your point?

If you could just lay out your qualifications to lecture someone
about animal rescue, we could put this little misunderstanding
behind us.

So I ask you directly, AGAIN: what are your qualifications to
discuss animal rescue?

In article ,
Bob wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:11:45 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
Bob wrote:

As mentioned in another post, these guys are from parks where they
lived on manicured lawn grass for many generations. They seem
adapted. In fact, one park has no oak trees, and the squirrels in
that park usually turn up their noses at acorns! Strange to see.
They'd more likely identify discarded Hostess HoHo's as a major food
group.

Funny punch-line but unnerving to those who care about wild animals.
Especially, injured animals need good nutrition and a place to hide.
Hostess HoHos aren't food for anyone or anything, calories?, yes, food?,
no.

Are you quite serious, Billy? That was a joke, and I really doubt
that any wildlife rehabber will read that and go buy Hoho's. The
point was in regard to animals' adaptation to a given environment, and
I thought the point about acorns may be interesting to some. And yes,
they will get junk food out of trash cans in parks. I don't provide
Hoho's. (Geez)

If you care for these animals, make sure that they have a vet's
care, otherwise what you are engaged in is just some narcissistic,
Disneyesque (unrelated to reality), cruel, ego-trip.

Yep, this has definitely run off into strange territory. I've already
explained this: I fund all veterinary care, housing, and rescue out of
pocket. I have veterinary specialists that I deal with for specific
animals. I've been doing this for years.

If you are doing
free-lance rescue work, the animals you collect are at a disadvantage
for survival vis-a-vis those at a Wildlife Rescue Center. Call your
local SPCA, to find the nearest Wildlife Rescue Center, and ask their
advice. Yes, some of them will be jerks, but they know what they are
doing. It isn't all about you.

Or you, eh? "Wildlife Rescue"... that would be me or about 3 or 4
others in the city. When one of the more mainstream organizations
gets an injured animal, they either call one of us, or they put the
animal down, even if it's healthy. Usually that happens within a day
or two.

But hey, thanks for your advice on this! g

Never met a Wild Life Rescue that was a "me" before. If Fish and Game
are cool with you, so am I, otherwise the above applies.
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn