Dwight Sipler wrote:



Some cheap tools are cost effective. I am death on shovels (or shovel
handles, anyway), so I generally buy the $7 versions. One time I bought
a $30 shovel, fiberglass handle, etc. The fiberglass didn't hold up well
in the sun and after a couple of winters it was all split and hard to
hold. It lasted less time than the wooden handled $7 versions. PS: I
paint the shovel handles bright red so I can find them. Adds another
dollar to the cost (the paint wears off and has to be renewed
occasionally). The red handled shovel makes a good marker to let me know
where I left off working in a row. I can see it 400' away.



I buy all my hand tools at Sears, NOTHING beats the Craftsman deal. I
bought a digging fork almost twenty years ago, last year I returned the
SIXTH one for a new one. Another half dozen large pruners have been
returned and a couple of shovels. You can't beat it, buy it ONCE and
you're done, when it breaks take it back. They cost a bit more initally
but make up for it in the long run.

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:26:52 GMT, Other Brother Kevin
wrote:

[...]

I buy all my hand tools at Sears, NOTHING beats the Craftsman deal. I
bought a digging fork almost twenty years ago, last year I returned the
SIXTH one for a new one. Another half dozen large pruners have been
returned and a couple of shovels. You can't beat it, buy it ONCE and
you're done, when it breaks take it back. They cost a bit more initally
but make up for it in the long run.


On the other hand, I had a pair of craftsman locking pliers that were
very poorly made. The jaws were misaligned and cheaply tack welded and
they were balky to operate and very prone to pinching the fingers. I
took them back to Sears and they offered to replace them with another
pair that was equally crappy. I tossed them and bought a pair of
Vice-grip brand pliers that are far superior in every way. What good
is a lifetime replacement warranty if the tool breaks when you need it
most or if they replace one crappy tool with another that is just as
bad?

Ken Schumm wrote:

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:26:52 GMT, Other Brother Kevin
wrote:

[...]


I buy all my hand tools at Sears, NOTHING beats the Craftsman deal. I
bought a digging fork almost twenty years ago, last year I returned the
SIXTH one for a new one. Another half dozen large pruners have been
returned and a couple of shovels. You can't beat it, buy it ONCE and
you're done, when it breaks take it back. They cost a bit more initally
but make up for it in the long run.



On the other hand, I had a pair of craftsman locking pliers that were
very poorly made. The jaws were misaligned and cheaply tack welded and
they were balky to operate and very prone to pinching the fingers. I
took them back to Sears and they offered to replace them with another
pair that was equally crappy. I tossed them and bought a pair of
Vice-grip brand pliers that are far superior in every way. What good
is a lifetime replacement warranty if the tool breaks when you need it
most or if they replace one crappy tool with another that is just as
bad?




My above returns are not due to crappy manufacture. These tools see as
much work as some contractors tools. My property is a field of stones,
some over 1000 pounds and I don't have a tractor.
I also have a wood lot that was logged off a few years before I bought
the place so I've been cleaning and thinning.

Kevin

Other Brother Kevin wrote:
Dwight Sipler wrote:

Some cheap tools are cost effective. I am death on shovels (or shovel
handles, anyway), so I generally buy the $7 versions. One time I bought
a $30 shovel, fiberglass handle, etc. The fiberglass didn't hold up well
in the sun and after a couple of winters it was all split and hard to
hold. It lasted less time than the wooden handled $7 versions. PS: I
paint the shovel handles bright red so I can find them. Adds another
dollar to the cost (the paint wears off and has to be renewed
occasionally). The red handled shovel makes a good marker to let me know
where I left off working in a row. I can see it 400' away.

I buy all my hand tools at Sears, NOTHING beats the Craftsman deal. I
bought a digging fork almost twenty years ago, last year I returned the
SIXTH one for a new one. Another half dozen large pruners have been
returned and a couple of shovels. You can't beat it, buy it ONCE and
you're done, when it breaks take it back. They cost a bit more initally
but make up for it in the long run.

me too ...

I'm on my third loppers (the ones with the yellow handles) since
Christmas ...

glad I bought them too. Nothing else would have lasted that long
- and then be replaced for free.

Maren

I buy all my hand tools at Sears, NOTHING beats the Craftsman deal. I
bought a digging fork almost twenty years ago, last year I returned the
SIXTH one for a new one. Another half dozen large pruners have been
returned and a couple of shovels. You can't beat it, buy it ONCE and
you're done, when it breaks take it back. They cost a bit more initally
but make up for it in the long run.

I agree... they even gurantee their Craftsman garden hoses... I've taken
back 5 or 6 over the years... even the ones the gardner got with his
mower.

I have TONS of Craftsman hand tools I initally bought between the mid
60's to early 70's I've busted or worn out bunches of times... there are
some common size screwdrivers, sockets, ratchets, dikes, cold chisels &
pin punches I've had replaced under warranty several times a year. Most
of the stuff in moderate to heavy nearly continuous commercial use.

Some of my more critical stuff I have duplicates or even triplicates
of... so I'm not stopped should they fail. It also saves a lot of hassel
when Sears is out of stock when I go in with brokens.

I also have some tool need's that exceed Craftsman's quality offerings,
or that Craftsman just doesn't make... Snap On takes up the slack in
most of these cases... pretty much the same warranty, but you gotta go
find one of their trucks for replacemants. Snap On stuff is all big $$$.

Be aware not all Craftsman tools are covered under the same warranty...
power tools and most, but not all cutting tools are different... read
the labeles or ask first. 'Hand tools' pretty much are all covered
forever.

Just don't ever loose any Craftsman stuff... they don't cover that.

That warranty alone has saved me thousands of dollars... sure hope Sears
hangs on, seems like the place is always void of customers these days.

Erik

Wooden long handled tools get a wrap of electrical tape.
Keeps the wood reasonably sound and doesn't seem to cause blisters
like varnish does.
Mostly I use black , other colors are available.

In article , wrote:

Dwight Sipler wrote:



Some cheap tools are cost effective. I am death on shovels (or shovel
handles, anyway), so I generally buy the $7 versions. One time I bought
a $30 shovel, fiberglass handle, etc. The fiberglass didn't hold up well
in the sun and after a couple of winters it was all split and hard to
hold. It lasted less time than the wooden handled $7 versions. PS: I
paint the shovel handles bright red so I can find them. Adds another
dollar to the cost (the paint wears off and has to be renewed
occasionally). The red handled shovel makes a good marker to let me know
where I left off working in a row. I can see it 400' away.



I buy all my hand tools at Sears, NOTHING beats the Craftsman deal. I
bought a digging fork almost twenty years ago, last year I returned the
SIXTH one for a new one. Another half dozen large pruners have been
returned and a couple of shovels. You can't beat it, buy it ONCE and
you're done, when it breaks take it back. They cost a bit more initally
but make up for it in the long run.




OTOH, you could buy quality tools *once* and use them for your lifetime,
then pass them along to your spawn.

I have nothing against Craftman tools at all. I just live 6 hours away from
a Sears store these days and only go up to Anchorage once a year, at most.
So if I break my 9/16" spanner and don't have another one, I'm screwed.

Anyone who ever holds a Snap-On ratchet in their hot little hand will never
buy another Craftsman ratchet, IMO.

Jan

(Partially snipped)

Anyone who ever holds a Snap-On ratchet in their hot little hand will
never
buy another Craftsman ratchet, IMO.

That's the key. Holding the ratchet. Where does the average joe six pack
go to buy Snap-On?
I agree about the superior quality of these tools, though. My pal is a
diesel mechanic, and uses this brand.
They are really a pleasure to use. But man do they cost! But he makes good
money at his job, gets a tool allownace, and can depreciate the costs on his
income taxes, not so for most of us.
Dave

Jan

In misc.rural Maren Purves wrote:
Other Brother Kevin wrote:

I buy all my hand tools at Sears, NOTHING beats the Craftsman deal. I
bought a digging fork almost twenty years ago, last year I returned the
SIXTH one for a new one.

I'm on my third loppers (the ones with the yellow handles) since
Christmas ...

Am I the only one who buys better tools and doesn't have to return them
at all? I just don't get this whole "They break alot, and this is a
feature" sales thing. I'd rather have a tool that stands up to long
work and won't break 6 times.

I mean, 3rd replacement since December?

For what you'd pay for a new Craftsman at Sears (Simpson or Roebucks) you
could get a used Snap-On at a pawnshop.

Should it ever break...

That's when you'll have to hunt down the ever elusive Snap-On truck. They
have a route. All you have to do is start calling auto repair shops and find
one that knows what day of the month the Snap-On truck shows up and stake
the place out.

RamDog

"DaveG" wrote in message
...





(Partially snipped)

Anyone who ever holds a Snap-On ratchet in their hot little hand will
never
buy another Craftsman ratchet, IMO.

That's the key. Holding the ratchet. Where does the average joe six pack
go to buy Snap-On?
I agree about the superior quality of these tools, though. My pal is a
diesel mechanic, and uses this brand.
They are really a pleasure to use. But man do they cost! But he makes
good
money at his job, gets a tool allownace, and can depreciate the costs on
his
income taxes, not so for most of us.
Dave

Jan

wrote:

Am I the only one who buys better tools and doesn't have to return
them
at all? I just don't get this whole "They break alot, and this is a
feature" sales thing.

Well, you probably are one of the few who use a tool the way it's
designed. Most of us not only don't own more than one general use hammer
(as opposed to the correct hammer for various jobs), and a lot of the
time we don't bother getting the hammer out. We use whatever solid
object is handy as a hammer.

Also, with many tools, there are parts that are meant to wear-out, or
even break under stress. Wooden handles come to mind. It's simply
easier, and not much more expensive, to replace the whole tool than it
is to buy a new handle, and repair the tool.

And finally, to many people, what the tool is used for is the activity
they are focused on, not maintaining the tool. When I work in the
garden, I tend to work until I'm ready to drop. I barely have the energy
to collect the tools and put them away, let alone clean them and
maintain them. On the other hand, you may fall into the category of
people who love their tools, and the activity is just a way to show how
you can use the tool.

To each his own. Personally I'm glad that there are inexpensive tools
that are never intended to be repaired that are sturdier than toys. It
means I don't have to feel guilty when I replace my shovel instead of
repairing it after I've used it to move a boulder instead of getting a
bar that was designed for the job. I can pound that nail with the side
of my ratchet wrench. I can open the paint can with the screwdriver, and
I can use the tiny bypass trimmer to hack through a woody growth twice
the size it was designed to snip. No way I could do this if my tools
were expensive. And I don't have to set aside time for tool maintenance,
either.

In my father's day, my attitude towards tools would have been in the
minority. These days, thanks to those inexpensive tools, I may be in the
majority.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 21:26:52 GMT, Other Brother Kevin
wrote:


I buy all my hand tools at Sears, NOTHING beats the Craftsman deal. I
bought a digging fork almost twenty years ago, last year I returned the
SIXTH one for a new one. Another half dozen large pruners have been
returned and a couple of shovels. You can't beat it, buy it ONCE and
you're done, when it breaks take it back. They cost a bit more initally
but make up for it in the long run.

I am going to do this also. I go through pitch forks like nothing. I invested
in stainless steel and bent a tine! I'm up to Sears this week to buy me another
one.

Victoria

On 26 Apr 2003 13:11:26 GMT, wrote:
In misc.rural Maren Purves wrote:
Other Brother Kevin wrote:
I buy all my hand tools at Sears, NOTHING beats the Craftsman deal. I
bought a digging fork almost twenty years ago, last year I returned the
SIXTH one for a new one.

I'm on my third loppers (the ones with the yellow handles) since
Christmas ...

Am I the only one who buys better tools and doesn't have to return them
at all? I just don't get this whole "They break alot, and this is a
feature" sales thing. I'd rather have a tool that stands up to long
work and won't break 6 times.

I mean, 3rd replacement since December?

For sure. I'm still using some tools my grandfather bought (used) as
a young man. But frankly, all tools aren't like that. Some do tend to
get "used up" fairly quickly. You need to treat them as consumables
rather than investments.

Then there are the tools you can buy for $20 instead of $189 that
hold up much better than the price difference would indicate. I'm
thinking of the Horrible Freight angle grinders here. Quality they're
not, work they do. And I can afford to have spares if one does fail
in the middle of a job.

Buying quality (= expensive) tools isn't always the best thing to
do. I tend to look at value for the dollar. That often means cheap
tools, sometimes it means expensive tools, but rarely does it
mean Sears tools. They're neither cheap nor high quality. The
lifetime guarantee means an unexpected trip to town in the middle
of a job likely as not.

Gary

On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:04:13 -0900, (Jan Flora) wrote:


OTOH, you could buy quality tools *once* and use them for your lifetime,
then pass them along to your spawn.

I do buy quality tools. I use my tools frequently. They get way too warn over
time to hand down in any condition I'd be able to use, as a gardener. I've had
everything from Elliott Coleman designed tools, Smith and Hawkins, and up. I've
paid 45 dollars on shovels and 10 dollars. Both wore out or got chipped. I
have black soil, Texas T...ya'll come back now.


I have nothing against Craftman tools at all. I just live 6 hours away from
a Sears store these days and only go up to Anchorage once a year, at most.
So if I break my 9/16" spanner and don't have another one, I'm screwed.

Anyone who ever holds a Snap-On ratchet in their hot little hand will never
buy another Craftsman ratchet, IMO.

Jan

On 26 Apr 2003 13:11:26 GMT, wrote:

Am I the only one who buys better tools and doesn't have to return them
at all? I just don't get this whole "They break alot, and this is a
feature" sales thing. I'd rather have a tool that stands up to long
work and won't break 6 times.

I mean, 3rd replacement since December?

How much do you garden? How big are your beds and how often do you work them,
and move plants around and change things? I am constantly honing my garden with
transplanting and moving around. Making new beds. Running into major rockage.
If you are a weekend gardener, good tools may last a lifetime and not break a
lot, but I do not have that same experience.