"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Mama Bear" wrote in message
...

Moist peat
moss won't blow anywhere, and neither will it wick water from
the ground.

That's what I was thinking.

As peat moss dries, it sometimes forms a crust which can be difficult for
seed to penetrate. This is why it's supposed to be mixed into the soil. I
have a question. Have you ever actually handled peat moss that's been
broken
down from chunks into a powdery state? I mean....have you touched it with
your hands, especially when it's dry?



As for wicking significant water out of the
ground, I know that peat pots do that if they are only partly
buried, but I think this is sufficiently different.

Added even later (From http://www.greengate.ca/lawns_sod/):
"After seeding apply a thin layer of peat moss over the entire
area. This helps retain moisture and holds the seed to ensure
a quality product." So the idea is not unknown.

The sarcastic tone of some posters here, who wrote from
ignorance as if they actually knew something about the topic,
is not justified.

Ask a simple question on usenet and everyone is an expert, even
when they don't know what they're talking about.


I have another question. Two, actually. No...wait. Three.

1) Tell me how long I've been gardening and how many dozens of books I've
read on the subject.

2) How long have you been gardening and how many books you've read on the
subject.

3) You said "everyone is an expert". When you asked your original
question,
did you want advice from someone who was NOT an expert? If so, why didn't
you ask anyone who knew what they were talking about to please refrain
from
answering?

Your claims here that you are speaking from authority make you sound like a
midaeval church official who denied that heavy bodies fall as fast as light
ones. You have never tried this, or spoken with anyone who has. Experiment
is a lot more conclusive than theory.

As for wicking, if peat is mixed into soil many pieces of peat undoubtedly
stick out a bit. Yet the peat-soil mix is not dried out by any wicking
effect. It is, in fact, a recommended mix for starting sod where peat is
cheap. Yes, I have handled peat. I have also tossed handfuls of it onto my
garden and seen them in the same spot months later, having failed to notice
your opinion and blow away. (and yes, that's sarcasm.)

"enigma" wrote in message
. ..

you really should have done your seeding in the fall. grass
grows better when fall seeded. as you found last year, when
you spring seed you get a lot of weeds.

In order for her to do that, she would've had to listen to people who she
calls "experts". But, in an earlier message, she said disdainful things
about "experts". Maybe she should tell us what authorities she DOES trust,
and how she decides who to listen to.

"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Mama Bear" wrote in message
...

Moist peat
moss won't blow anywhere, and neither will it wick water from
the ground.

That's what I was thinking.

As peat moss dries, it sometimes forms a crust which can be difficult for
seed to penetrate. This is why it's supposed to be mixed into the soil. I
have a question. Have you ever actually handled peat moss that's been
broken
down from chunks into a powdery state? I mean....have you touched it
with
your hands, especially when it's dry?



As for wicking significant water out of the
ground, I know that peat pots do that if they are only partly
buried, but I think this is sufficiently different.

Added even later (From http://www.greengate.ca/lawns_sod/):
"After seeding apply a thin layer of peat moss over the entire
area. This helps retain moisture and holds the seed to ensure
a quality product." So the idea is not unknown.

The sarcastic tone of some posters here, who wrote from
ignorance as if they actually knew something about the topic,
is not justified.

Ask a simple question on usenet and everyone is an expert, even
when they don't know what they're talking about.


I have another question. Two, actually. No...wait. Three.

1) Tell me how long I've been gardening and how many dozens of books I've
read on the subject.

2) How long have you been gardening and how many books you've read on the
subject.

3) You said "everyone is an expert". When you asked your original
question,
did you want advice from someone who was NOT an expert? If so, why didn't
you ask anyone who knew what they were talking about to please refrain
from
answering?

Your claims here that you are speaking from authority make you sound like
a
midaeval church official who denied that heavy bodies fall as fast as
light
ones. You have never tried this, or spoken with anyone who has.
Experiment
is a lot more conclusive than theory.

"tried this" - I assume you're talking about mechanically launching peat
moss. That's correct - I haven't seen it done. Let me ask you something: If
you see 1000 landscapers create new lawns, and NONE of them "blow" peat moss
onto the surface, does that tell you anything? Let's assume also that 10% of
these people are not private business people, but work for municipalities,
which often have plenty of money for the latest equipment.

Why do you suppose you and I haven't seen this launching idea done with peat
moss?



As for wicking, if peat is mixed into soil many pieces of peat undoubtedly
stick out a bit. Yet the peat-soil mix is not dried out by any wicking
effect. It is, in fact, a recommended mix for starting sod where peat is
cheap. Yes, I have handled peat. I have also tossed handfuls of it onto
my
garden and seen them in the same spot months later, having failed to
notice
your opinion and blow away. (and yes, that's sarcasm.)



I noticed that the OP has now said that the person who suggested the idea to
her in the first place might not be so reliable. Maybe she'll explain why
later today.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
"tried this" - I assume you're talking about mechanically launching peat
moss. That's correct - I haven't seen it done. Let me ask you something:
If
you see 1000 landscapers create new lawns, and NONE of them "blow" peat
moss
onto the surface, does that tell you anything? Let's assume also that 10%
of
these people are not private business people, but work for municipalities,
which often have plenty of money for the latest equipment.

Why do you suppose you and I haven't seen this launching idea done with
peat
moss?

I expect blowing on peat moss is not the most cost-effective way to
establish a new lawn in most situations. But the OP did not ask how to
establish a new lawn, she asked where to buy a tool, and in response she got
general advice. This advice was presented as factual but it was not based on
experience, and I did not and do not agree with the advice. I reproduce it
he

Peat moss also dries out very quickly when exposed to air. Then, two
things
happen: First, it acts like a sponge and sucks moisture out of adjacent
materials, like your soil. This assumes it remains in place, which is
probably won't if it's been pulverized and there's any wind. The only
correct way to use peat moss on a lawn is to work it into the soil, not
just
put it on top.

I will also point out that she is not starting a new lawn but trying to fill
in an existing lawn, so comparisons with starting new lawns are not very
informative.

Hi,

I am a home owner with a bad lawn not a professional. I have tried
using peat moss and it did work quiet well. I put down the peat moss
just spreading it around with a shovel. Then I sprinkled seed and some
fertilizer. Then plonked more peat moss on top.

I kept it watered using a ordinary hose and sprinkler on a timer.
Worked quite well.

I got my peat moss from home depot as well as the grass seed. I live in
New York and I did this last fall round about September time. Grass
came up in about 5 days.

The advantages of peat moss over top soil and other admenments I think
is easy of spreading it around.

As for a blower I have one of these as well. I did not use it to spread
the peat moss around though. The blower I have is a RedMax 8001. It is
a back pack blower. I suppose you could use it to blow stuff around,
but not quite sure how that would help?

Good luck with your lawn.

warmest regards, Mike.

Mama Bear wrote:
Someone was telling me that they can use a shredder-blower to shred
peat moss and spray a think layer of it all over your lawn after
putting down grass seed, then you water and it helps keep the
moisture in and start the seed so it doesn't dry out.

What do they call the blower that can do that and what do they
usually cost?



--
- Mama Bear

wrote:

I am a home owner with a bad lawn not a professional. I have tried
using peat moss and it did work quiet well. I put down the peat moss
just spreading it around with a shovel. Then I sprinkled seed and some
fertilizer. Then plonked more peat moss on top.

I kept it watered using a ordinary hose and sprinkler on a timer.
Worked quite well.

I got my peat moss from home depot as well as the grass seed. I live
in
New York and I did this last fall round about September time. Grass
came up in about 5 days.

And you could have had the same results with less water if you didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.


The advantages of peat moss over top soil and other admenments I think
is easy of spreading it around.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage to using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does nothing to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

Power Lawncare Tools for Spring Clean-up:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/

I see two significant advantages to using peat as described -- it reduces
the frequency of waterings that are needed and surrounds the seeds and
provides them with a constant level of humidity. It sounds like a good idea
to me.


And you could have had the same results with less water if you didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage to using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does nothing to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

Question: In 30+ years of gardening, I've have never seen any advice
indicating that peat moss did NOT need to be mixed into soil. Never. Not
once, and this includes gardening veterans like James Crockett, Alan Lacy,
Henry Mitchell, Fred McGourty, Russell Page, Christopher Lloyd, etc. They
were gardening for 30-50 years before I even began. None of them suggest
that it's a good idea to just sprinkle peat moss on top of soil.

What evidence do you have that suddenly makes this a good idea?


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I see two significant advantages to using peat as described -- it reduces
the frequency of waterings that are needed and surrounds the seeds and
provides them with a constant level of humidity. It sounds like a good
idea
to me.


And you could have had the same results with less water if you didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage to using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does nothing to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss is to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

My evidence is my own observation that peat moss remains moist much longer
than the surface of my lawn. Thus a lawn with peat moss on top will need
less frequent watering, perhaps twice a day to keep the grass seed moist
instead of every hour during midday. It will also shield the seeds from the
direct sunlight, which could dry them out no matter what they're on.

The claims of you and your authorities that mixing peat moss into soil is
the best way to use it to improve the soil, and just leaving it on top is,
at best, useless, seem undeniable. But that is not the goal here or the
situation. The moss will be kept moist until the grass is established. The
fact that peat moss is useful when dug in does not prevent it from being
useful in other ways too.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Question: In 30+ years of gardening, I've have never seen any advice
indicating that peat moss did NOT need to be mixed into soil. Never. Not
once, and this includes gardening veterans like James Crockett, Alan Lacy,
Henry Mitchell, Fred McGourty, Russell Page, Christopher Lloyd, etc. They
were gardening for 30-50 years before I even began. None of them suggest
that it's a good idea to just sprinkle peat moss on top of soil.

What evidence do you have that suddenly makes this a good idea?


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I see two significant advantages to using peat as described -- it
reduces
the frequency of waterings that are needed and surrounds the seeds and
provides them with a constant level of humidity. It sounds like a good
idea
to me.


And you could have had the same results with less water if you didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage to using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does nothing to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

Your observations are at best the products of delusion. Please accept that I
mean this in a good way. You have no idea what you saw. The only possible
exception to what I've said is that you are home all day long, and are able
to hose down the lawn's surface every couple of hours. Aside from that
possibility, or living in a climate where it rains lightly and endlessly
every day, there are no other explanations.







"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss is to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

My evidence is my own observation that peat moss remains moist much longer
than the surface of my lawn. Thus a lawn with peat moss on top will need
less frequent watering, perhaps twice a day to keep the grass seed moist
instead of every hour during midday. It will also shield the seeds from
the
direct sunlight, which could dry them out no matter what they're on.

The claims of you and your authorities that mixing peat moss into soil is
the best way to use it to improve the soil, and just leaving it on top is,
at best, useless, seem undeniable. But that is not the goal here or the
situation. The moss will be kept moist until the grass is established.
The
fact that peat moss is useful when dug in does not prevent it from being
useful in other ways too.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Question: In 30+ years of gardening, I've have never seen any advice
indicating that peat moss did NOT need to be mixed into soil. Never. Not
once, and this includes gardening veterans like James Crockett, Alan
Lacy,
Henry Mitchell, Fred McGourty, Russell Page, Christopher Lloyd, etc. They
were gardening for 30-50 years before I even began. None of them suggest
that it's a good idea to just sprinkle peat moss on top of soil.

What evidence do you have that suddenly makes this a good idea?


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I see two significant advantages to using peat as described -- it
reduces
the frequency of waterings that are needed and surrounds the seeds and
provides them with a constant level of humidity. It sounds like a good
idea
to me.


And you could have had the same results with less water if you didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage to
using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does nothing
to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

I am tremendously amused. You remarks were most entertaining. Thank you.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Your observations are at best the products of delusion. Please accept that
I
mean this in a good way. You have no idea what you saw. The only possible
exception to what I've said is that you are home all day long, and are
able
to hose down the lawn's surface every couple of hours. Aside from that
possibility, or living in a climate where it rains lightly and endlessly
every day, there are no other explanations.







"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to
improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss is
to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

My evidence is my own observation that peat moss remains moist much
longer
than the surface of my lawn. Thus a lawn with peat moss on top will
need
less frequent watering, perhaps twice a day to keep the grass seed moist
instead of every hour during midday. It will also shield the seeds from
the
direct sunlight, which could dry them out no matter what they're on.

The claims of you and your authorities that mixing peat moss into soil
is
the best way to use it to improve the soil, and just leaving it on top
is,
at best, useless, seem undeniable. But that is not the goal here or the
situation. The moss will be kept moist until the grass is established.
The
fact that peat moss is useful when dug in does not prevent it from being
useful in other ways too.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Question: In 30+ years of gardening, I've have never seen any advice
indicating that peat moss did NOT need to be mixed into soil. Never.
Not
once, and this includes gardening veterans like James Crockett, Alan
Lacy,
Henry Mitchell, Fred McGourty, Russell Page, Christopher Lloyd, etc.
They
were gardening for 30-50 years before I even began. None of them
suggest
that it's a good idea to just sprinkle peat moss on top of soil.

What evidence do you have that suddenly makes this a good idea?


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I see two significant advantages to using peat as described -- it
reduces
the frequency of waterings that are needed and surrounds the seeds
and
provides them with a constant level of humidity. It sounds like a
good
idea
to me.


And you could have had the same results with less water if you
didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage to
using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does nothing
to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

Andrew Ostrander wrote:
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to
improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an
existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss is
to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

The peat will absorb moisture.

If the peat was mixed in the soil, that moisture would be available to
sprouting roots. But if the peat is on top of the soil, that moisture
will be lost to evaporation as the peat dries, and will do the
germination process absolutely no good. In fact, if you don't increase
how much watering you do, the soil under the peat will never get the
moisture it needs, and any germinating seeds will quickly die.


My evidence is my own observation that peat moss remains moist much
longer
than the surface of my lawn.

Yes. You're right.

Thus a lawn with peat moss on top will need
less frequent watering, perhaps twice a day to keep the grass seed
moist
instead of every hour during midday.

Wrong. The water will go to keeping the peat moist, and that moiture
will be unavailable for the germinating seedlings.

It will also shield the seeds from the
direct sunlight, which could dry them out no matter what they're on.

If you're seeding during spring or fall, any direct sunlight is a
non-issue. If you're seeding in the height of summer, yes, your seeds
could dry out, but they're going to dry out faster if you cover them
with a big sponge that's exposed to the sunlight. And that's what peat
is.

Try this: Take a sponge, and place it over some soil. Then water the
area where the sponge is, as well as a bare area of similar soil
composition, and other conditions. Water both areas to the point that
the sponge is saturated. Every hour, check the soil under the sponge,
and the area not under the sponge. Notice which soil dries out first:
What was under the sponge, or what wasn't.


The claims of you and your authorities that mixing peat moss into soil
is
the best way to use it to improve the soil, and just leaving it on top
is,
at best, useless, seem undeniable. But that is not the goal here or
the
situation. The moss will be kept moist until the grass is established.
The
fact that peat moss is useful when dug in does not prevent it from
being
useful in other ways too.

You're missing the point. It's not worthless on top because it's
supposed to be mixed in. It's supposed to be mixed in because it's
worthless (and, in fact, counter-productive) on top.

Save your water. Water only the soil and the seedlings. Don't lay peat
on top. You'll just have to water the peat in addition to the soil and
seedlings.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

Power Lawncare Tools for Spring Clean-up:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/

"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss is to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

if the plan is to retain moisture and reduce watering surely a far simpler
way of doing it is to peg some form of cloth across the soil until the seeds
start to germinate. If the seed and peat moss is randomly spread amongst
existing grass is that not a little haphazard. What guarantee do you have
the the peat moss will come to rest in the places it is exactly needed.
Moreover, what effect will peat moss have on existing grasses. If you lay it
on too thick and moist you risk damaging the existing lawn. It may work
however it seems there are far simpler ways of achieving the desired
results. If simply wanting to beef up existing turf planting grasses in the
correct season with the necessary climactic conditions is a huge head start.
If the weather is hot and dry then the question has to be asked is grass the
best product for such conditions. Peat moss may or may not work, however to
my mind, is it the best way.

rob

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to
improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss is to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

if the plan is to retain moisture and reduce watering surely a far simpler
way of doing it is to peg some form of cloth across the soil until the
seeds
start to germinate.

Good idea, but the OP said she has an 8000 sq ft area. That's a lot of
burlap!

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"George.com" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to
improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an
existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss is
to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

if the plan is to retain moisture and reduce watering surely a far
simpler
way of doing it is to peg some form of cloth across the soil until the
seeds
start to germinate.

Good idea, but the OP said she has an 8000 sq ft area. That's a lot of
burlap!

you can get waste stuff if you look in the right places. Sure, it will be a
bit of work however simply spreading seed on an 8000 sq ft area will be work
in itself, as well as watering, as well as blowing peat fluff all over it.
With something that large there is work there all rightregardless of what
direction you go.

rob