I have a lot of old 6 by 6 pressure treated wood that came from terraced flower
beds. I was assuming that because of the arsenic content, I could not recycle
these for a raised vegetable garden. However, after doing a bit of research on
the net, I find that there is a difference of opinion with some people claiming
that the arsenic leach is negligible. Others recommend sealing the wood with a
coat of paint as an added protection. I guess I’m looking to see how other
gardeners feel about this subject. Another factor, and I don’t know if it is
of any relevance, is that the wood is probably more than 15 years old.
Dave
http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave

suspect you will find many opinions on this one......would I use
it....definitely yes.....because of the controversy surrounding its use I
would line the inside of the raised bed with a heavy duty black plastic.as
well as on the underneath where it comes in contact with the
ground.......one Extension service I know uses it without the liner.....for
a number of years mine were made from new pressure treated wood and to the
very best of my belief I have not suffered one iota from its use.....no
longer have those beds cos I moved locations but the new owner still has
them and is very much alive and kicking....can I say more?

HW.
"DavesVideo" wrote in message
...
I have a lot of old 6 by 6 pressure treated wood that came from terraced
flower
beds. I was assuming that because of the arsenic content, I could not
recycle
these for a raised vegetable garden. However, after doing a bit of
research on
the net, I find that there is a difference of opinion with some people
claiming
that the arsenic leach is negligible. Others recommend sealing the wood
with a
coat of paint as an added protection. I guess I'm looking to see how other
gardeners feel about this subject. Another factor, and I don't know if it
is
of any relevance, is that the wood is probably more than 15 years old.
Dave
http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave

Xref: news7 rec.gardens:214003

On 16 Mar 2003 12:39:44 GMT, (DavesVideo) wrote:

I have a lot of old 6 by 6 pressure treated wood that came from terraced flower
beds. I was assuming that because of the arsenic content, I could not recycle
these for a raised vegetable garden. However, after doing a bit of research on
the net, I find that there is a difference of opinion with some people claiming
that the arsenic leach is negligible. Others recommend sealing the wood with a
coat of paint as an added protection. I guess I’m looking to see how other
gardeners feel about this subject. Another factor, and I don’t know if it is
of any relevance, is that the wood is probably more than 15 years old.
Dave
http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave


Personally, I would not use it near vegetable plants or anywhere it
comes in skin contact. Sawing the wood, breathing the dust, or
getting a splinter from PT wood may not be dangerous but it can be
nasty even after 15 years.

In view of the fact that the wood is 15 years old and used, I would say use
it as is.

Derryl


I have a lot of old 6 by 6 pressure treated wood that came from terraced
flower
beds. I was assuming that because of the arsenic content, I could not
recycle
these for a raised vegetable garden. However, after doing a bit of
research on
the net, I find that there is a difference of opinion with some people
claiming
that the arsenic leach is negligible. Others recommend sealing the wood
with a
coat of paint as an added protection. I guess I'm looking to see how other
gardeners feel about this subject. Another factor, and I don't know if it
is
of any relevance, is that the wood is probably more than 15 years old.
Dave
http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave

In article ,
(DavesVideo) wrote:

I have a lot of old 6 by 6 pressure treated wood that came from terraced
flower
beds. I was assuming that because of the arsenic content, I could not recycle
these for a raised vegetable garden. However, after doing a bit of research on
the net, I find that there is a difference of opinion with some people
claiming
that the arsenic leach is negligible.

Only the trade industry invested in selling it promotes the idea of it
being negligible, & their propoganda gets repeated especially on the web,
where vendors & wholesalers have found they can reach a bigger audience
telling whoppers than can scientists & physicians with data to the
contrary. This lumber was on the verge of being banned (it was previously
temporarily banned but the lumber industry is EXTREMELY powerful at
lobbying for their privilege of doing all sorts of environmentally unsafe
but highly profitable activities). To escape the inevitable legal ban of
this dangerous product, the industry promised to faze it out by the end of
2003, & growing amounts of pressure-treated wood now use alternatives to
aresenic. After this year you won't be able to endangerous your family &
pets by uknowingly building stuff out of deadly wood. Still, if I had some
laying around I'd probably use it, but nowhere near where pets or children
can get at it, & nowhere where gardening is for food.

Others recommend sealing the wood with a
coat of paint as an added protection.

This would work mainly where the wood is not in contact with soil -- where
it contacts soil, the soil environment will quickly go to work even on the
paint, & eventually be back in contact with the arsenic. But sealing it is
certainly helpful.

I guess I’m looking to see how other
gardeners feel about this subject. Another factor, and I don’t know if it is
of any relevance, is that the wood is probably more than 15 years old.
Dave
http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave

If it was 15 years in perpetual contact with soil & rain, it's probably
leeched out the majority of what it ever will leech; but if it's been in a
tidy pile most, & especially if it's been kept dry & out of contact with
soil, it's still very toxic.

Contact with this lumber causes warts -- one of the great problems of
children playing barefoot on arsenic-treated playground equipment has been
warts on bottoms of feet & palms of hand. The amount of arsenic children
were exposed to was many times above safe levels. It is particularly
harmful to pets that are apt to chew the wood directly. Though this wood
CAN cause catastrophic illness up to & including cancer, it's still far
more dangerous to drive to the corner store & back in terms of
percentages. But even the more likely side-effect of dermal diseases is
bad enough, & Industry counter-arguments (similar to those used by the
tobacco industry) that the cancer risk is slight to absent never really
addresses the full range of risks.

I'll post separately some of the information assiduously avoided in
trade-interest propoganda safety promises.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

From a couple past posts, here's the info the vendor-generateed on-line
"totally safe!" propoganda tends to leave out (clipped from past posts &
reposted below). It's about to become all moot because the wood treatment
industry has always had the ability to make safer treated woods & after
2003 will be doing so, not that all the new pesticide compounds are going
to be 100% no problem, but presumedly none as dangerous as arsenic treated
wood. The EPA document mentioned in this old post has been removed from
the EPA website in part of the agreement with the industry -- EPA agreed
to stop telling the truth about the wood if the industry would two years
later make it safer. Less than one year left!

-----

Following the pattern of the tobacco industry, a group of lobbyists & spin
doctors by generating propoganda & payola do insist that chromated copper
arsenate (CCA) pressure treated wood is totally safe. One of their
arguments is that there is lots of arsenic in soil naturally so it's like
natural dude, a little more won't hurt. But organic arsenic is NOT the
same as inorganic arsenic & right from the first words out of their mouths
they are telling whoppers. Inorganic arsenic very easily dissolves when it
comes in contact with water; CCA treated wood cannot safely be used
in direct contact with soil; & even the manufacturers are finally
admitting it shouldn't be used near a vegetable garden nor the scraps burned.

The Environmental Working Group and the Healthy Building Network
are lobbying to ban arsenic-treated wood in children's playground
equipment or any other product that would attract children. EPA cannot be
quite so protective of the public because of the present conservative
governmental environment which puts industry ahead of public health &
safety, which is why EPA prefers public awareness instead of ban & is
having trouble getting the industry to go along even with that, as public
awareness is a danger to that industry.

And EPA's public awareness campaign consists of a poorly distributed
flyer-length of info seen by almost no one. If you can find it, it
will inform you inorganic arsenic (used for CCA wood) is more deadly than
organic arsenic. Arsenic at high levels causes death, but at LOW LEVELS
that can leech from treated wood it does not cause death, no, not at all,
but it does cause: warts & corns on bottoms of feet & on palms & torso;
skin discoloration; damages blood vessels; decreases production of red &
white blood cells, causes abnormal heart rhythm, vomiting & nausea,
sensation of "pins & needles" in limbs, & a statistically increased risk
of lung cancer, skin cancer, bladder cancer, liver cancer, kidney cancer,
& prostate cancer, & is suspected of causing birth defects [all according
to the Agency for Toxic Substances' Disease Registry Division
of Toxicology, US Consumer Product Safety Commission, & the EPA.]

So who are those folks saying its safe & doing a MUCH better job of
getting THEIR message into every home improvement store & lumber yard in
the nation, getting payola to Congress to make sure EPA doesn't move
further against the product as they've threatened to do in the past, &
fighting regional legislation to stop its use in children's playgrounds?
Why, none other than lobbyists & PR people brought to you by the American
Wood Preserves Institute.

A key scientist, Christopher Teaf, hired by the AWPI to conclude that the
danger has been exaggerated has admitted to making a major mathematical
error in his study which claimed children face little risk from being
around this shit. The AWPI humiliated by the withdrawal of paid-for
statistics was forced to admit the arsenic exposure risk to children is
ONE THOUSAND TIMES GREATER than Teaf's purchased finding --
yet even so AWPI keeps insisting the danger is of no consequence.
Here's the report for any who find this level of infamy just
too incredible:
http://www.sptimes.com/News/041801/S...timates_.shtml

The denial debate consists exclusively of the facts against CCA treated
wood versus the lies promulgated by manufacturers of this wood. The article
linked immediately above notes that AWPI industry leaders have gone so far
as to lie under oath to Congress (in one case even swearing under oath
there wasn't arsenic in arsenic treated wood!) & prepared "slanted" (fake)
reports for the EPA. An AWPI representative asked how an industry
representative could lie under oath shrugged his shoulder & said he
couldn't explain why. Could it be because an industry facing class action
suits is developing its own sub-culture of liars exactly like the
sub-cultures that permitted the too-useful asbestos industry to continue
killing people for 30 years after it was proven they were killing people?

CCA pressure treated wood should be used guardedly at best, or not at all
by anyone concerned with keeping their gardening areas organic. Think of
it like any other harsh lingering pesticide & CERTAINLY don't use it where
children or pets or bare hands or feet may come in contact with it or
where vegetables may be grown to be eaten now or in the next twenty years
after the ground is good & contaminated with chromium, copper, & arsenic.

There ARE pressure-treated woods that are not CCA contaminated that are
equally long-lasting. The alternate product is thus far not in mass
production so costs more but would actually cost less than CCA wood if it
were produced in equal quantity. Sadly the American Wood Preserves
Institute regards the little mills who buck the established system as
their enemies & get quite threatening with attorneys.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/