I used to have fish and plants in ..lessee.. I was 14.. I'm almost 53
now...1965!!! Old metal frame 20 and 15 gallons with white silica
sand and under gravel filters with vibrator pumps to get the water to
circulate through the under gravel filters, and a siphon over the back
filter.

All I had were 2 incandescent 15 watt bulbs and a little indirect
light from the front window and at that had crystal craze or paper on
the back and sides of the tanks to keep the algae growth down, and the
plants not only survived but MULTIPLIED!!

Now, I have four modern all glass 55 gallon aquariums and one 20
gallon and under gravel filters, natural river gravel, but.. what I
fear the culprits were.. power heads rated for the size of the tanks.
(Can't recall what they were now as they have been unused for some
years now due to my disabilities and inability to care for them at
that time).

I tried to grow plants for some time in there with the two 15 watt
florescent grow lights on the upper tanks, and two 40 watt grow light
4' tubes on the lower tanks. The 20 gallon had One 15 watt grow tube,
and it wasn't a show tank, just standard kind of blocky 20 gallons.
The plants grew best in that 20 gallon than in the 55s, but everything
else was rather pitiful, only able to occasionally keep a potted plant
alive. I love the plants as much as I love the fish.. mostly I like
the little tetras, khuli loaches and cory cats and pygmy cats and
otocinclus algae eaters, things that don't disturb plants much if at
all.

So, what would y'all recommend I read, look at, or can you tell me
what I'd need to get to illuminate standard 55 gallon tanks
sufficiently to keep plants alive, and I have "got it" that pretty
much power heads are bad, and probably undergravel filters are bad..
or.. if they aren't they're limited to the front shallow areas of the
tank that are generally left "open".

I have a Banche Reihl sp? Encyclopedia of Tropical fish that
somewhat addresses substrates and plant tanks, but I looked for the
substrates online and they were like $15 for tiny bags of it, I'd need
hundreds of dollars worth to put into just one or one and part of
another from what I'd figured, and so got depressed and quit looking.

Are plant tanks something only the rich can afford? I live on a bit
over $860 a month.. disabled.. has to get tanks moved before setting
up, so I figured I should start checking around a bit now.

I know.. lot of questions long post.. whip me now hanging head in
shame but I wanna knoooooooow and I know I don't know enough anymore
to phrase a short question.

Janice

For a 55 gallon tank, you pretty much need 80 watts of fluorescent lights or
more to grow healthy plants. A few plants can get by with less light, but
not very many. If you can't get better lights, is there any chance you could
put your tanks near windows ? My plant tank is next to a window, and most of
my plants grow like weeds. I have to trim them every couple of weeks.

Some other things that help plants grow are fertilizer and carbon dioxide.
If you have strong water movement, most of the CO2 from the fish escapes
into the air before the plants can use it. You should also use a fertilizer
meant for aquarium plants. The pH of the water is important to plants too,
most plants do best when the pH is between aout 6.0 and 6.8 . If you have
hard water with a high pH , you can soften it by putting peat moss in youyr
filters. I'm not really an expert, but those are most of the basics.

Glad to help;
Limnophile

"Janice" wrote in message
...
I used to have fish and plants in ..lessee.. I was 14.. I'm almost 53
now...1965!!! Old metal frame 20 and 15 gallons with white silica
sand and under gravel filters with vibrator pumps to get the water to
circulate through the under gravel filters, and a siphon over the back
filter.

All I had were 2 incandescent 15 watt bulbs and a little indirect
light from the front window and at that had crystal craze or paper on
the back and sides of the tanks to keep the algae growth down, and the
plants not only survived but MULTIPLIED!!

Now, I have four modern all glass 55 gallon aquariums and one 20
gallon and under gravel filters, natural river gravel, but.. what I
fear the culprits were.. power heads rated for the size of the tanks.
(Can't recall what they were now as they have been unused for some
years now due to my disabilities and inability to care for them at
that time).

I tried to grow plants for some time in there with the two 15 watt
florescent grow lights on the upper tanks, and two 40 watt grow light
4' tubes on the lower tanks. The 20 gallon had One 15 watt grow tube,
and it wasn't a show tank, just standard kind of blocky 20 gallons.
The plants grew best in that 20 gallon than in the 55s, but everything
else was rather pitiful, only able to occasionally keep a potted plant
alive. I love the plants as much as I love the fish.. mostly I like
the little tetras, khuli loaches and cory cats and pygmy cats and
otocinclus algae eaters, things that don't disturb plants much if at
all.

So, what would y'all recommend I read, look at, or can you tell me
what I'd need to get to illuminate standard 55 gallon tanks
sufficiently to keep plants alive, and I have "got it" that pretty
much power heads are bad, and probably undergravel filters are bad..
or.. if they aren't they're limited to the front shallow areas of the
tank that are generally left "open".

I have a Banche Reihl sp? Encyclopedia of Tropical fish that
somewhat addresses substrates and plant tanks, but I looked for the
substrates online and they were like $15 for tiny bags of it, I'd need
hundreds of dollars worth to put into just one or one and part of
another from what I'd figured, and so got depressed and quit looking.

Are plant tanks something only the rich can afford? I live on a bit
over $860 a month.. disabled.. has to get tanks moved before setting
up, so I figured I should start checking around a bit now.

I know.. lot of questions long post.. whip me now hanging head in
shame but I wanna knoooooooow and I know I don't know enough anymore
to phrase a short question.

Janice

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 01:23:55 -0600, Janice
wrote:

Now, I have four modern all glass 55 gallon aquariums and one 20
gallon and under gravel filters, natural river gravel, but.. what I
fear the culprits were.. power heads rated for the size of the tanks.
(Can't recall what they were now as they have been unused for some
years now due to my disabilities and inability to care for them at
that time).

I tried to grow plants for some time in there with the two 15 watt
florescent grow lights on the upper tanks, and two 40 watt grow light
4' tubes on the lower tanks. The 20 gallon had One 15 watt grow tube,
and it wasn't a show tank, just standard kind of blocky 20 gallons.
The plants grew best in that 20 gallon than in the 55s, but everything
else was rather pitiful, only able to occasionally keep a potted plant
alive. I love the plants as much as I love the fish.. mostly I like
the little tetras, khuli loaches and cory cats and pygmy cats and
otocinclus algae eaters, things that don't disturb plants much if at
all.

So, what would y'all recommend I read, look at, or can you tell me
what I'd need to get to illuminate standard 55 gallon tanks
sufficiently to keep plants alive, and I have "got it" that pretty
much power heads are bad, and probably undergravel filters are bad..
or.. if they aren't they're limited to the front shallow areas of the
tank that are generally left "open".

I have a Banche Reihl sp? Encyclopedia of Tropical fish that
somewhat addresses substrates and plant tanks, but I looked for the
substrates online and they were like $15 for tiny bags of it, I'd need
hundreds of dollars worth to put into just one or one and part of
another from what I'd figured, and so got depressed and quit looking.

Are plant tanks something only the rich can afford? I live on a bit
over $860 a month.. disabled.. has to get tanks moved before setting
up, so I figured I should start checking around a bit now.

I know.. lot of questions long post.. whip me now hanging head in
shame but I wanna knoooooooow and I know I don't know enough anymore
to phrase a short question.

Janic

I am retired and a few years older. I too returned to a childhood
hobby and now have 5 tanks, the largest a 75 gallon. First a comment
about your budget. Fish can be expensive. I don't know how you get
by on $860 a month.


Steer away from expensive plants. I learned, after much expense, to
buy only low light plants.

Plants are rated by how may watts per gallon of light they want.
Divide the fluorescent bulbs watts by the number of gallons in the
tank. Low light is less than 2 watts per gallon, but only new bulbs
will have the full light output, so as a practical matter, figure you
will not have as much light as the formula says.

I have found many species of low light plants. Your local fish store
will probably be able and willing to help you select them. A Google
search for either "low light plants" or "aquarium plants" will give
you a lot of information. Here is one site:
http://www.aquabotanic.com/lowlightlist.htm

I do not use fertilizers nor co2. I rely on my fish to fertilize the
plants and it works well for me. I use gravel of different kinds,
none of the expensive stuff. I even have a tank with no gravel that I
anchor plants to keep them on the bottom. I like plants in my
aquariums!

Keep everything simple. Don't worry about the expensive stuff. Buy
the least expensive gravel. Use only low light plants, they will
multiply with time, so plant sparse to start. Don't waste money on
fertilizers. You may have some plants that don't survive, so don't
replace them with the same species. If you can afford them,
scavengers are interesting and help keep a tank clean. One I have
read about recently that sounds useful and colorful and will fit in
most tanks is the "American Flag" fish. When my tank population drops
by attrition, I have a note to myself to buy some. Do a search in
Google and you can judge for yourself. I don't think they are
expensive.

Good luck, I find my fish good quiet company, they don't bark at me
when it is time to be fed! g

The cheapest/best substate is a soil substrate with sand to cap it
off. I'm very much a newbie at soil substrates, but know someone in
my local club who is an expert. Read and ask questions in the Wet
Thumbs Forum at aquabotanic.com
http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x, there are several
true experts that contribute to that forum.

As for getting cheap plants, you can't beat local club auctions. You
can often find good deals at aquabid.com.

The lowest light plants like anubias, java fern, java moss,
valisneria, many sword plants, anacharis and ambulia will grow slowly,
but survive quite well on 1.5 watts per gallon. Most other plants
will need 2 wpg or more. You don't need any substrate for anubias,
java fern or java moss - just something to tie them down. Sword
plants require a good bit of iron in the substrate.

The very best thing you can do to save yourself money is to join local
aquarium clubs. The only hard part, then, is to resist buying too
much (it's much harder than it sounds).

Cris


On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 01:23:55 -0600, Janice
wrote:

I used to have fish and plants in ..lessee.. I was 14.. I'm almost 53
now...1965!!! Old metal frame 20 and 15 gallons with white silica
sand and under gravel filters with vibrator pumps to get the water to
circulate through the under gravel filters, and a siphon over the back
filter.

All I had were 2 incandescent 15 watt bulbs and a little indirect
light from the front window and at that had crystal craze or paper on
the back and sides of the tanks to keep the algae growth down, and the
plants not only survived but MULTIPLIED!!

Now, I have four modern all glass 55 gallon aquariums and one 20
gallon and under gravel filters, natural river gravel, but.. what I
fear the culprits were.. power heads rated for the size of the tanks.
(Can't recall what they were now as they have been unused for some
years now due to my disabilities and inability to care for them at
that time).

I tried to grow plants for some time in there with the two 15 watt
florescent grow lights on the upper tanks, and two 40 watt grow light
4' tubes on the lower tanks. The 20 gallon had One 15 watt grow tube,
and it wasn't a show tank, just standard kind of blocky 20 gallons.
The plants grew best in that 20 gallon than in the 55s, but everything
else was rather pitiful, only able to occasionally keep a potted plant
alive. I love the plants as much as I love the fish.. mostly I like
the little tetras, khuli loaches and cory cats and pygmy cats and
otocinclus algae eaters, things that don't disturb plants much if at
all.

So, what would y'all recommend I read, look at, or can you tell me
what I'd need to get to illuminate standard 55 gallon tanks
sufficiently to keep plants alive, and I have "got it" that pretty
much power heads are bad, and probably undergravel filters are bad..
or.. if they aren't they're limited to the front shallow areas of the
tank that are generally left "open".

I have a Banche Reihl sp? Encyclopedia of Tropical fish that
somewhat addresses substrates and plant tanks, but I looked for the
substrates online and they were like $15 for tiny bags of it, I'd need
hundreds of dollars worth to put into just one or one and part of
another from what I'd figured, and so got depressed and quit looking.

Are plant tanks something only the rich can afford? I live on a bit
over $860 a month.. disabled.. has to get tanks moved before setting
up, so I figured I should start checking around a bit now.

I know.. lot of questions long post.. whip me now hanging head in
shame but I wanna knoooooooow and I know I don't know enough anymore
to phrase a short question.

Janice

Cris wrote:
The cheapest/best substate is a soil substrate with sand to cap it
off. I'm very much a newbie at soil substrates, but know someone in
my local club who is an expert. Read and ask questions in the Wet
Thumbs Forum at aquabotanic.com
http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x, there are several
true experts that contribute to that forum.


personally I wouldn't recommend using a soil based substrate until you
have had some experience dealing with water parameters and their
fluctuations.

The very best thing you can do to save yourself money is to join local
aquarium clubs. The only hard part, then, is to resist buying too
much (it's much harder than it sounds).

Cris

Agree whole heartedly with joining clubs, especially about spending too
much, plants grow - money generally doesn't

Kris