Hello everyone. I am brand new to the newsgroup and do not (yet) have a
planted tank although I currently have several non-planted tanks. It
started a few years ago when my wife suggested my then three-year-old
daughter would like "a fish." She of course meant a goldfish in a bowl.
Being the obsessive person I am, I did all my homework and decided that
would just not be a nice thing to do. Anyway, things quickly got out of
hand and today I enjoy the 6, 10, 30, and 55 gallon tanks I have living
happily throughout my house.

I've always been interested in a planted tank though. I've held off knowing
my overboard nature would quickly leave with expensive lighting, a CO2
injection system, and me obsessing over the water chemistry. So what? It's
time... I'm going to invest in a CO2 injection system with a pH controller.
I've learned if I try real hard, I can shop around on the online auction and
other places to make the whole deal affordable for me. I'm also investing
in the lighting upgrade and decided to plant the 55 gallon tank. So the
reading has been very helpful but as usual, has also generated many
questions. I know a lot depends on what kind of plants, what kind of fish,
what kind of water, etc. but I am hoping for some general suggestions.
Sorry if I am asking too much at once:

1. Using the conventional wisdom of 2-4W/gal. and my desire to keep medium
to bright(er) light plants, how much light do I really need? Using the
formulas, I've calculated I need over 200W to keep the bright(er) light
plants in my 55g. I'm planning on compact fluorescents and have seen a lot
of the fixtures available with four 55W bulbs. I might even make a fixture
and hood. But another option is to retrofit the two 2-foot strips I
currently have with a single 55W in each. One online supply house some of
you may know boasts 163% lighting efficiency with a kit using compact
fluorescents and a shaped silver reflector. If I go with this plan, I am
already getting a straight 110W from the bulbs (or 2W/gal.). Am I getting
an effective 180W (110W x 1.63) and is this enough? Seems like it would be.
Is the fact that the lights would be shining through the "slits" of the old
hood (only about 4.5" or so wide) too narrow an opening? Would it be better
to get a glass top and a fixture with legs a few inches or so above the
glass top instead?

2. I have a canister filter on the tank loaded with charcoal. Will the
charcoal remove the trace elements and nutrients from the water and
adversely affect the plant growth/health? It is a 350gph filter with
biowheels. The biowheels oxygenate the water so I keep the filter outlet
below the water line so I don't really agitate the water much. Good, I
understand, to not agitate the water in order to keep the CO2 from escaping
the water too quickly. Also, is it best to put the CO2 reactor right in
line with on the canister filter's outlet line? Will enough CO2 stay in the
water if it is coming out of the filter outlet at 350gph a few inches below
the surface of the water?

3. I'm worried about my current substrate. When I initially set up the
tank, I bought a lot of the slightly larger size gravel. There is nothing
as to its size or dimensions on the bag but measuring it, I can safely say
most of it between 1/8" (3 mm.) and less than 1/4" (6 mm.) with the majority
being the smaller stuff. I hadn't planned on the plants being potted in the
substrate. Is this gravel too big? If so, would I need to remove it? I
wouldn't think this wise with a living, established tank. Anyone ever do
this?

4. Finally, I haven't found much on actually introducing the plants to the
aquarium, or an established one anyway. I've read it's best to try and stay
ahead of the algae. Seems like it would then be best to fully plant the
tank all at once as opposed to phasing the plants in if I am going to all of
a sudden inject the environment with a bunch of CO2 and sunlight... no?

Okay, that's it. Congratulations if you made it through all that. Sorry to
be so long winded...

Arnim

Well, I think I've answered some of my own questions with contunued reading.

1. On the issue of the lights, seems that without CO2 injection, two 55W
bulbs would be ample and the rate limiter would be the lack of CO2. With
CO2 (which I'm doing), the lights could well be the rate limiting component,
leaving an imbalance of Light-CO2-nutrients and possible problems, eg.
algae.
2. Sounds like there are different opinions on carbon in the plant tank. I
think I'll start by leaving it in and get a trace element test kit. I will
add the iron anyway and I can replace the carbon with another non-carbon
media if the trace elements are too low later. I'm also going to put the
glass diffuser that is coming with the CO2 kit I picked up on the online
auction under the water intake of my cannister filter and see how much CO2 I
can get dissolved in the water that way and not buy a separate inline
Reactor 1000 right now. Still vascillating about getting a pH controller
though. I might just monitor the pH swings for now and see.
3. I've decided my substrate might be a "little" large but still
acceptable. Ideally, I would have used Laterite mixed in the lower 1/3 of
the substrate if I were setting this up from scratch, but since I'm
converting a well-established tank, I'll try inserting laterite balls
instead.
4. Finally, I'll heavily plant right from the start to try and stay ahead
of the algae. I'll introduce a couple os SAEs as well.

I'f I'm off base with any of this and anyone feels like piping in, please
do.


"Arnim" wrote in message
.com...
Hello everyone. I am brand new to the newsgroup and do not (yet) have a
planted tank although I currently have several non-planted tanks. It
started a few years ago when my wife suggested my then three-year-old
daughter would like "a fish." She of course meant a goldfish in a bowl.
Being the obsessive person I am, I did all my homework and decided that
would just not be a nice thing to do. Anyway, things quickly got out of
hand and today I enjoy the 6, 10, 30, and 55 gallon tanks I have living
happily throughout my house.

I've always been interested in a planted tank though. I've held off
knowing
my overboard nature would quickly leave with expensive lighting, a CO2
injection system, and me obsessing over the water chemistry. So what?
It's
time... I'm going to invest in a CO2 injection system with a pH
controller.
I've learned if I try real hard, I can shop around on the online auction
and
other places to make the whole deal affordable for me. I'm also investing
in the lighting upgrade and decided to plant the 55 gallon tank. So the
reading has been very helpful but as usual, has also generated many
questions. I know a lot depends on what kind of plants, what kind of
fish,
what kind of water, etc. but I am hoping for some general suggestions.
Sorry if I am asking too much at once:

1. Using the conventional wisdom of 2-4W/gal. and my desire to keep
medium
to bright(er) light plants, how much light do I really need? Using the
formulas, I've calculated I need over 200W to keep the bright(er) light
plants in my 55g. I'm planning on compact fluorescents and have seen a
lot
of the fixtures available with four 55W bulbs. I might even make a
fixture
and hood. But another option is to retrofit the two 2-foot strips I
currently have with a single 55W in each. One online supply house some of
you may know boasts 163% lighting efficiency with a kit using compact
fluorescents and a shaped silver reflector. If I go with this plan, I am
already getting a straight 110W from the bulbs (or 2W/gal.). Am I getting
an effective 180W (110W x 1.63) and is this enough? Seems like it would
be.
Is the fact that the lights would be shining through the "slits" of the
old
hood (only about 4.5" or so wide) too narrow an opening? Would it be
better
to get a glass top and a fixture with legs a few inches or so above the
glass top instead?

2. I have a canister filter on the tank loaded with charcoal. Will the
charcoal remove the trace elements and nutrients from the water and
adversely affect the plant growth/health? It is a 350gph filter with
biowheels. The biowheels oxygenate the water so I keep the filter outlet
below the water line so I don't really agitate the water much. Good, I
understand, to not agitate the water in order to keep the CO2 from
escaping
the water too quickly. Also, is it best to put the CO2 reactor right in
line with on the canister filter's outlet line? Will enough CO2 stay in
the
water if it is coming out of the filter outlet at 350gph a few inches
below
the surface of the water?

3. I'm worried about my current substrate. When I initially set up the
tank, I bought a lot of the slightly larger size gravel. There is nothing
as to its size or dimensions on the bag but measuring it, I can safely say
most of it between 1/8" (3 mm.) and less than 1/4" (6 mm.) with the
majority
being the smaller stuff. I hadn't planned on the plants being potted in
the
substrate. Is this gravel too big? If so, would I need to remove it? I
wouldn't think this wise with a living, established tank. Anyone ever do
this?

4. Finally, I haven't found much on actually introducing the plants to
the
aquarium, or an established one anyway. I've read it's best to try and
stay
ahead of the algae. Seems like it would then be best to fully plant the
tank all at once as opposed to phasing the plants in if I am going to all
of
a sudden inject the environment with a bunch of CO2 and sunlight... no?

Okay, that's it. Congratulations if you made it through all that. Sorry
to
be so long winded...

Arnim

snip

Have you researched overdriving Normal Output Fluorescent lamps? Pretty
easy, affordable, and effective.
I just finished a project myself. There are some before and after photos in
alt.binaries.aquaria if you're curious to see the difference.

HTH

~Mort

Wow, that IS impressive! Is is safe to assume all the rating changes are
proportional? In other words, if you overdrive a bulb by two you doulble
the wattage and decrease it's life by 50%? Thanks for the suggestion.

Arnim
"
Have you researched overdriving Normal Output Fluorescent lamps? Pretty
easy, affordable, and effective.
I just finished a project myself. There are some before and after photos
in
alt.binaries.aquaria if you're curious to see the difference.

time... I'm going to invest in a CO2 injection system with a pH controller.

Pass on the controller part and just get a monitor.
Save you some $ for stuff you don't need. If it makes you feel better,
I suppose you can go the extra 100$.

1. Using the conventional wisdom of 2-4W/gal. and my desire to keep medium
to bright(er) light plants, how much light do I really need?


120w of NO FL is enough to have some setrious award winning plant
tanks. More is not better and I would challenge the notion of plants
that need any more than 2-3w/gal.

Using the
formulas, I've calculated I need over 200W to keep the bright(er) light
plants in my 55g.

This is not true. I can grow whatever plants you can think of at 120w
in a 55gal.

I'm planning on compact fluorescents and have seen a lot
of the fixtures available with four 55W bulbs. I might even make a fixture
and hood. But another option is to retrofit the two 2-foot strips I
currently have with a single 55W in each. One online supply house some of
you may know boasts 163% lighting efficiency with a kit using compact
fluorescents and a shaped silver reflector. If I go with this plan, I am
already getting a straight 110W from the bulbs (or 2W/gal.). Am I getting
an effective 180W (110W x 1.63) and is this enough? Seems like it would be.

I would not think about it like that.
Compared to a NO FL's, perhaps it's close to this.
You buy an electronic ballast for either 4x 32 watt T-8's, buy a
reflector for them, or an electronic ballast for 3-4x 40w NO FL's T-12
lamps, this is plenty and also gives a nice spread of light.

The PC reflectors are narrow but some have wide flat reflectors that
spread the light better. 220w of light is very high for a 55.

Is the fact that the lights would be shining through the "slits" of the old
hood (only about 4.5" or so wide) too narrow an opening?

You could get 110w through there but not 220w.

Would it be better
to get a glass top and a fixture with legs a few inches or so above the
glass top instead?

Yes.

2. I have a canister filter on the tank loaded with charcoal. Will the
charcoal remove the trace elements and nutrients from the water and
adversely affect the plant growth/health?

If it's more than month old, it's now biomedia and will not remove
much of anything.

It is a 350gph filter with
biowheels. The biowheels oxygenate the water so I keep the filter outlet
below the water line so I don't really agitate the water much. Good, I
understand, to not agitate the water in order to keep the CO2 from escaping
the water too quickly.

So you just remove these.

Also, is it best to put the CO2 reactor right in
line with on the canister filter's outlet line?

You can add the CO2 reactor before or after the canister.
Here's an Easy DIY:
http://www.aquaticscape.com/articles/co2reactor.htm

Will enough CO2 stay in the
water if it is coming out of the filter outlet at 350gph a few inches below
the surface of the water?

Should.
Some surface moevement is good.
Just not a lot.


3. I'm worried about my current substrate. When I initially set up the
tank, I bought a lot of the slightly larger size gravel. There is nothing
as to its size or dimensions on the bag but measuring it, I can safely say
most of it between 1/8" (3 mm.) and less than 1/4" (6 mm.) with the majority
being the smaller stuff. I hadn't planned on the plants being potted in the
substrate. Is this gravel too big?

A little.

If so, would I need to remove it? I
wouldn't think this wise with a living, established tank. Anyone ever do
this?

All the time, vacuum the contents(the mulm/detritus) out and add to
new gravel you are adding.
Decant off the water and save the mulm.
Nothing is on the old gravel and the bacteria etc is added back to the
new gravel/tank.

Flourite works good for folks.

4. Finally, I haven't found much on actually introducing the plants to the
aquarium, or an established one anyway. I've read it's best to try and stay
ahead of the algae. Seems like it would then be best to fully plant the
tank all at once as opposed to phasing the plants in if I am going to all of
a sudden inject the environment with a bunch of CO2 and sunlight... no?

Not the sun light part but yes, add a ton of plants right from the
start.

Regards,
Tom Barr


Okay, that's it. Congratulations if you made it through all that. Sorry to
be so long winded...

Arnim

Not really. IF you overdrive by 4..you get about 2-2.5X the wattage...and about
half the life..IE 2 years instead of 4...but if your changing them every six
months like the plant people reccomend..that really doesnt make a
difference....

Arnim wrote:

Wow, that IS impressive! Is is safe to assume all the rating changes are
proportional? In other words, if you overdrive a bulb by two you doulble
the wattage and decrease it's life by 50%? Thanks for the suggestion.

Arnim
"
Have you researched overdriving Normal Output Fluorescent lamps? Pretty
easy, affordable, and effective.
I just finished a project myself. There are some before and after photos
in
alt.binaries.aquaria if you're curious to see the difference.

Tom, thanks for the thorough and thoughtful responses to my
all-over-the-board questions. This is really helpful. I made a few
comments below and have a couple of other questions if you have a moment to
take a look. Thanks again.

Best,

Arnim

" wrote in message
om...

Pass on the pH controller part and just get a monitor.

Yes, the more I read, the more I agree with that plan


I can grow whatever plants you can think of at 120w
in a 55gal.

Okay, I'm convinced.


You buy an electronic ballast for either 4x 32 watt T-8's, buy a
reflector for them, or an electronic ballast for 3-4x 40w NO FL's T-12
lamps, this is plenty and also gives a nice spread of light.

Okay, can I get 4 T-8's across the 10" I have available on my 55g? Suspend,
elevate, build a hood? That DIY CO2 reactor link was great. Any DIY for
fixture enclosures and lighting setups you recommend? I think a ran across
one Erik Olsen wrote on doing T-8s, will look again.


I have a canister filter on the tank loaded with charcoal. Will the
charcoal remove the trace elements and nutrients from the water and
adversely affect the plant growth/health?

If it's more than month old, it's now biomedia and will not remove
much of anything.

The tank itself has been running for two years and I haven't lost a single
fish other than the a couple of of gold barbs that got harrassed to death by
the boesemani rainbows when I tried to introduce a small school to the tank.
The scissosr-tail rasbora school has always done fine but they roamed the
tank before the rainbows. The boesmanis rule the tank now but not are really
agressive toward any other species including a couple of smaller dwarf
gourami species (cinnamon and gold) nor do they bother the loaches. I
change the carbon about every six weeks to two months. The more I read the
more discrepancies on this topic I find. I guess I could just be sure to
add the iron if I'm that worried about it.


I'm worried about my current substrate. would I need to remove it? I
wouldn't think this wise with a living, established tank. Anyone ever
do
this?

All the time, vacuum the contents(the mulm/detritus) out and add to
new gravel you are adding.
Decant off the water and save the mulm.
Nothing is on the old gravel and the bacteria etc is added back to the
new gravel/tank.

Sounds logical and easy enough. Should I remove ALL the old larger gravel
or leave a small layer (~1/2") on the bottom of the tank? With the new
substrate, use the Flourite straight? Will it cloud the water/harm the fish
when I add it? It would be expensive to use it straight, should I mix 1:1
or 2:1 gravel/flourite?

Tom, thanks for the thorough and thoughtful responses to my
all-over-the-board questions. This is really helpful. I made a few
comments below and have a couple of other questions if you have a moment to
take a look. Thanks again.

Best,

Arnim

" wrote in message
om...

Pass on the pH controller part and just get a monitor.

Yes, the more I read, the more I agree with that plan


I can grow whatever plants you can think of at 120w
in a 55gal.

Okay, I'm convinced.


You buy an electronic ballast for either 4x 32 watt T-8's, buy a
reflector for them, or an electronic ballast for 3-4x 40w NO FL's T-12
lamps, this is plenty and also gives a nice spread of light.

Okay, can I get 4 T-8's across the 10" I have available on my 55g? Suspend,
elevate, build a hood? That DIY CO2 reactor link was great. Any DIY for
fixture enclosures and lighting setups you recommend? I think a ran across
one Erik Olsen wrote on doing T-8s, will look again.


I have a canister filter on the tank loaded with charcoal. Will the
charcoal remove the trace elements and nutrients from the water and
adversely affect the plant growth/health?

If it's more than month old, it's now biomedia and will not remove
much of anything.

The tank itself has been running for two years and I haven't lost a single
fish other than the a couple of of gold barbs that got harrassed to death by
the boesemani rainbows when I tried to introduce a small school to the tank.
The scissosr-tail rasbora school has always done fine but they roamed the
tank before the rainbows. The boesmanis rule the tank now but not are really
agressive toward any other species including a couple of smaller dwarf
gourami species (cinnamon and gold) nor do they bother the loaches. I
change the carbon about every six weeks to two months. The more I read the
more discrepancies on this topic I find. I guess I could just be sure to
add the iron if I'm that worried about it.


I'm worried about my current substrate. would I need to remove it? I
wouldn't think this wise with a living, established tank. Anyone ever
do
this?

All the time, vacuum the contents(the mulm/detritus) out and add to
new gravel you are adding.
Decant off the water and save the mulm.
Nothing is on the old gravel and the bacteria etc is added back to the
new gravel/tank.

Sounds logical and easy enough. Should I remove ALL the old larger gravel
or leave a small layer (~1/2") on the bottom of the tank? With the new
substrate, use the Flourite straight? Will it cloud the water/harm the fish
when I add it? It would be expensive to use it straight, should I mix 1:1
or 2:1 gravel/flourite?