These have been my go-to salad tomato for the past five years. I plant them in three oak half barrels in my yard every spring and have tomatoes until mid-fall. I’ve always gotten the plants, not started from seed, but haven’t been able to find them yet this year. They are prolific producers and pack a lot of flavor in a tiny tomato. I love them! Good for skewering as well. I’m in Jacksonville, FL and am beginning to worry. If anyone knows where I can get Moby Grape plants please let me know. They’re great!

wrote:
These have been my go-to salad tomato for the past five years. I plant them in three oak half barrels in my yard every spring and have tomatoes until mid-fall. I’ve always gotten the plants, not started from seed, but haven’t been able to find them yet this year. They are prolific producers and pack a lot of flavor in a tiny tomato. I love them! Good for skewering as well. I’m in Jacksonville, FL and am beginning to worry. If anyone knows where I can get Moby Grape plants please let me know. They’re great!

sorry, not local to your area here so no idea what places
might have them.

there are so many good cherry tomatoes i would encourage
you to seek out some others to give them a try too just in
case you can't find the ones you really want.

if you have any cherry tomatoes from last year perhaps
those seeds would work to try to grow them yourself? i'm
not sure if MG's are hybrid or not...


songbird

On 2020-03-13 09:26, wrote:
These have been my go-to salad tomato for the past five years. I plant them in three oak half barrels in my yard every spring and have tomatoes until mid-fall. I’ve always gotten the plants, not started from seed, but haven’t been able to find them yet this year. They are prolific producers and pack a lot of flavor in a tiny tomato. I love them! Good for skewering as well. I’m in Jacksonville, FL and am beginning to worry. If anyone knows where I can get Moby Grape plants please let me know. They’re great!


Just out of curiosity, what are their time to maturity?
I have to have 70 days or less

T wrote:
....
Just out of curiosity, what are their time to maturity?
I have to have 70 days or less

that sounds wrong. you get frosts in the middle of
August? i think in the past you've said you are in
about the same zone as i am. ?

a normal season for us is about 100-110 days.

aka we plant our warm weather crops like tomatoes
towards the end of May and they run until the frost
gets them either in late September or by the middle
of October if we get a break.

this past winter has been kinda wimpy, but it isn't
over yet either.


songbird

On 2020-03-15 05:12, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
Just out of curiosity, what are their time to maturity?
I have to have 70 days or less

that sounds wrong. you get frosts in the middle of
August? i think in the past you've said you are in
about the same zone as i am. ?

a normal season for us is about 100-110 days.

aka we plant our warm weather crops like tomatoes
towards the end of May and they run until the frost
gets them either in late September or by the middle
of October if we get a break.

this past winter has been kinda wimpy, but it isn't
over yet either.


songbird


Zone 6b

I really only have about 60 days. We plant end of
May and frost gets up early October.

Still raining and snowing today.

T wrote:
....
Zone 6b

I really only have about 60 days. We plant end of
May and frost gets up early October.

uh, that's really bad at math...


Still raining and snowing today.

good for that area to get plenty of moisture.
it's been too dry for quite a while.


songbird

On 2020-03-15 16:51, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
Zone 6b

I really only have about 60 days. We plant end of
May and frost gets up early October.

uh, that's really bad at math...

No fooling. If you plant before the end of the first week
in June, you risk a freeze. I take the risk and plant last
week in May. Only been nailed once.

And sometimes we get a freeze as early as the first
week in September.

So you really want everything to come to fruition
in 60 days.

And it it gets too hat in the summer, you risk
things bolting.

How farmers, whose livelyhood depends on it, put
up with the crap, is beyond me. It must be a calling.
Maybe it is the feels of a good soil in your hands.



Still raining and snowing today.

good for that area to get plenty of moisture.
it's been too dry for quite a while.

Our dirt is very water resistant. So a snow melting
snow is ideal as it will actually soak in. A quick
rain just mostly runs off



songbird

T wrote:
songbird wrote:
....
uh, that's really bad at math...

No fooling. If you plant before the end of the first week
in June, you risk a freeze. I take the risk and plant last
week in May. Only been nailed once.

And sometimes we get a freeze as early as the first
week in September.

that's still three months not two! June, July,
August...


So you really want everything to come to fruition
in 60 days.

And it it gets too hat in the summer, you risk
things bolting.

that's a different issue. cool weather crops
v.s. those that don't mind some heat.


How farmers, whose livelyhood depends on it, put
up with the crap, is beyond me. It must be a calling.
Maybe it is the feels of a good soil in your hands.

last year all around us all these acres of fields
were planted but they did not get a harvest. it was
too much rain and most of them didn't even get into
the fields to plant until too late. yes, they could
have planted other crops but they didn't.

in contrast we had a pretty good season even with
all the rains, diversity in planting and adapting to
conditions makes a huge difference. when people
complain that organic farming can't produce enough
food to feed a lot of people i know as a fact that
those claims are BS.

most farmers i know are older and not owners of
the land they abuse. a few are marginally better
than others but still often abusive. around here a
lot of fields that used to be prime topsoil are now
subsoil grade and poorly drained because they have
abused them so much. when you kill off the worms
and other soil community and don't plant cover
crops or use reasonable rotations that is what
happens. topsoil blows away or washes away or is
degraded by the abuse of fertilizers and too much
plowing/disturbances. you gotta work with a
place to know it and not just abuse it.

ok, rant over.

it was pretty nice out yesterday, today might be
about the same. we'll see. frost last night.


songbird

On 2020-03-16 06:27, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
songbird wrote:
...
uh, that's really bad at math...

No fooling. If you plant before the end of the first week
in June, you risk a freeze. I take the risk and plant last
week in May. Only been nailed once.

And sometimes we get a freeze as early as the first
week in September.

that's still three months not two! June, July,
August...

Exactly. That leave only one month for fruit bearing.



So you really want everything to come to fruition
in 60 days.

And it it gets too hat in the summer, you risk
things bolting.

that's a different issue. cool weather crops
v.s. those that don't mind some heat.


How farmers, whose livelyhood depends on it, put
up with the crap, is beyond me. It must be a calling.
Maybe it is the feels of a good soil in your hands.

last year all around us all these acres of fields
were planted but they did not get a harvest. it was
too much rain and most of them didn't even get into
the fields to plant until too late. yes, they could
have planted other crops but they didn't.

in contrast we had a pretty good season even with
all the rains, diversity in planting and adapting to
conditions makes a huge difference. when people
complain that organic farming can't produce enough
food to feed a lot of people i know as a fact that
those claims are BS.

I hear that nonsense all the time too. Yields from
organic farms are a lot higher. One study I saw years
ago, a full circle farm was getting $1,400 per acre
whist his conventional neighbors were getting $400
per acre.

In The People Republic of California, virtually all
the wine grapes are now organically grown as the
yields are higher and, get this, every section of
their farms are producing consistent quality. No
more of this the north end is sweet and the south
end is sour.

And the difference i taste between full circle produce
and meat is striking. A guy around here that grows
full circle turkeys is bough out FIVE YEAR in advance!

most farmers i know are older and not owners of
the land they abuse. a few are marginally better
than others but still often abusive. around here a
lot of fields that used to be prime topsoil are now
subsoil grade and poorly drained because they have
abused them so much. when you kill off the worms
and other soil community and don't plant cover
crops or use reasonable rotations that is what
happens. topsoil blows away or washes away or is
degraded by the abuse of fertilizers and too much
plowing/disturbances. you gotta work with a
place to know it and not just abuse it.

ok, rant over.

No problem. You are ranting to the choir. Full
circle farming is growing the soil.

On the bright side, those abused lands should go
for cheap to full circle farmers so they can heal
the land and make it productive again. And
bring back family farming.

And get away from the bottom line on NEXT MONTHS
spreadsheet and look at the bottom line of a historical
spreadsheet.



it was pretty nice out yesterday, today might be
about the same. we'll see. frost last night.


songbird


It is still snowing off and on. Melts pretty quickly.
Hopefully we will get a good 1/2 inch of water out
of all this and my favorite fishing hole won't dry
up again

-T

T wrote:
songbird wrote:
....
that's still three months not two! June, July,
August...

Exactly. That leave only one month for fruit bearing.

that's not been a problem here. tomatoes we plant at
the end of May will be started on picking by mid to
late August, the next few weeks are busy. sometimes
we have green fruits left when the frosts come but that
is ok as they ripen inside sitting on a table. a
few might rot, but enough are still good.

90-110 days is plenty for about everything i grow
with the exception of new varieties that i don't know
about yet.


....
in contrast we had a pretty good season even with
all the rains, diversity in planting and adapting to
conditions makes a huge difference. when people
complain that organic farming can't produce enough
food to feed a lot of people i know as a fact that
those claims are BS.

I hear that nonsense all the time too. Yields from
organic farms are a lot higher. One study I saw years
ago, a full circle farm was getting $1,400 per acre
whist his conventional neighbors were getting $400
per acre.

In The People Republic of California, virtually all
the wine grapes are now organically grown as the
yields are higher and, get this, every section of
their farms are producing consistent quality. No
more of this the north end is sweet and the south
end is sour.

And the difference i taste between full circle produce
and meat is striking. A guy around here that grows
full circle turkeys is bough out FIVE YEAR in advance!

probably what you are calling full circle is what i
would consider permaculture - there's a lot of different
names for some similar techniques. good thing it doesn't
matter what we call them as long as they work.


most farmers i know are older and not owners of
the land they abuse. a few are marginally better
than others but still often abusive. around here a
lot of fields that used to be prime topsoil are now
subsoil grade and poorly drained because they have
abused them so much. when you kill off the worms
and other soil community and don't plant cover
crops or use reasonable rotations that is what
happens. topsoil blows away or washes away or is
degraded by the abuse of fertilizers and too much
plowing/disturbances. you gotta work with a
place to know it and not just abuse it.

ok, rant over.

No problem. You are ranting to the choir. Full
circle farming is growing the soil.

On the bright side, those abused lands should go
for cheap to full circle farmers so they can heal
the land and make it productive again. And
bring back family farming.

it would be nice, but as long as they have lime
and synthetic fertilizers they're not going to be
stopping what they're doing.


And get away from the bottom line on NEXT MONTHS
spreadsheet and look at the bottom line of a historical
spreadsheet.

also would be nice, but our system is not geared
towards that either. it's all high-expense and high-
turnover type crops. corn and soybeans are the two
main things you see farmed around us. winter wheat
or winter rye once in a while, sugar beets here or
there. rare to see any kind of cover crops which i
consider a near criminal negligence as all that
energy the sun is putting on the soil is being
wasted when you could be harvesting it, generating
more biomass, improving your topsoil and protecting
it from the wind and the rain.


it was pretty nice out yesterday, today might be
about the same. we'll see. frost last night.

It is still snowing off and on. Melts pretty quickly.
Hopefully we will get a good 1/2 inch of water out
of all this and my favorite fishing hole won't dry
up again

there are very few places i'd fish around here
and eat anything i caught. up north is where the
better fishing is at.


songbird

On 2020-03-16 13:41, songbird wrote:
Exactly. That leave only one month for fruit bearing.
that's not been a problem here. tomatoes we plant at
the end of May will be started on picking by mid to
late August, the next few weeks are busy. sometimes
we have green fruits left when the frosts come but that
is ok as they ripen inside sitting on a table. a
few might rot, but enough are still good.

90-110 days is plenty for about everything i grow
with the exception of new varieties that i don't know
about yet.

The growing season is so short around here it is
very frustrating.

Last year I had two yellow something or other cherry
tomatoes that where suppose to mature in 70 days. They
had tons of fruit on them, but they did not ripen until
two days before the first freeze. I must have lost
over 300 cherries.

Now I will only grow the sweet 100's are they mature
and ripen really quickly really

On 2020-03-16 13:41, songbird wrote:
And the difference i taste between full circle produce
and meat is striking. A guy around here that grows
full circle turkeys is bough out FIVE YEAR in advance!
probably what you are calling full circle is what i
would consider permaculture - there's a lot of different
names for some similar techniques. good thing it doesn't
matter what we call them as long as they work.



Permaculture sounds like the consept.

I tried to look up Full Circle for yo but there are
so many businesses/farms that use the name, I could
not find a reference

Basically is the way you treat the land and rotate
animals through it. You are basically growing grass.

1) grow grass and rest the rest for a year
2) cowes eat the grass and poop
3) sheep/goats finish off the grass and poop
4) turkeys eat the bugs/paracites in the poop and don't
catch the parasites that chickens do and they poop
5) run chickens after the turkeys do their thing and poop
6) ducks are in there somewhere, but I forgot where and poop
7) plow the poop under and grow vegitables
8) grow grass and rest the land for a years, which completes
the full circle


The idea is to a lot of plots in different stages.
And to realize that the plants depend on the animals
and the animals depend on the plants.

On 2020-03-16 13:41, songbird wrote:
On the bright side, those abused lands should go
for cheap to full circle farmers so they can heal
the land and make it productive again. And
bring back family farming.

it would be nice, but as long as they have lime
and synthetic fertilizers they're not going to be
stopping what they're doing.

It will catch up to them when nothing will finally
grow there




And get away from the bottom line on NEXT MONTHS
spreadsheet and look at the bottom line of a historical
spreadsheet.

also would be nice, but our system is not geared
towards that either. it's all high-expense and high-
turnover type crops. corn and soybeans are the two
main things you see farmed around us. winter wheat
or winter rye once in a while, sugar beets here or
there. rare to see any kind of cover crops which i
consider a near criminal negligence as all that
energy the sun is putting on the soil is being
wasted when you could be harvesting it, generating
more biomass, improving your topsoil and protecting
it from the wind and the rain.

Corn, soybeans, wheat, rye, sugar beets are all
not part of a "human appropriate" diet. It is not what
human DNA is programmed to process and not what humans
have consumed for the last 250,000 years.

So now it is catching up to us and we have heart
disease, Type 2 diabetes (I am a victim of such),
type 3 diabetes (Alzheimer), obesity, etc..

It does not help that our agriculture department is
up for sale. Grains did not even belong on the
food pyramid. Our ancestors did not eat grains.
Or franken fruit for that matter.

Pase seed company has them.