In article
songbird writes:
T wrote:

Is kale actually edible, even without the pesticides?

:-)

we don't eat it. i like most veggies but not that
one much enough to grow it.

I'm not sure I've ever had it, but it has probably shown up in a
salad at some point. I assume it follows my general rule for all
cabbage relatives -- eat as close to raw as possible.


i
grow tomatoes and strawberries without any *cides at
all.

Unfortunately, my garden is plagued by tomato leaf spot, so I am
dependant on copper sulfate. That's about all I use, aside from
RoundUp on the creaping thistle.


--
Drew Lawson | What is an "Oprah"?
| -- Teal'c
|

Drew Lawson wrote:
songbird writes:
....
i
grow tomatoes and strawberries without any *cides at
all.

Unfortunately, my garden is plagued by tomato leaf spot, so I am
dependant on copper sulfate. That's about all I use, aside from
RoundUp on the creaping thistle.

the tomatoes here get some kind of blight each
season but they still bear fruit and we get enough
so i've never treated for it. i have tried various
things recommended to eliminate it or reduce it
from happening, but each year it returns no matter
what. so since it doesn't cause us to lose the
crops i just continue to ignore it. the plants
look pretty sad by the end of the summer but by
then we've put up what we need so it's ok.

i would not use copper sulfate for long as the
copper can build up in the soil.

have you tried finding more resistant plants?
i have here but Mom is very fixated on what she
wants to grow so i gave up.

the troublesome weeds here are horsetail and
sow-thistle, but i've found out they can be
removed by manual methods and smothering once
you've got the worst of them cleared. you just
have to be sure to keep after any new ones that
may show up before they get going again.


songbird

In article
songbird writes:
Drew Lawson wrote:
songbird writes:
...
i
grow tomatoes and strawberries without any *cides at
all.

Unfortunately, my garden is plagued by tomato leaf spot, so I am
dependant on copper sulfate. That's about all I use, aside from
RoundUp on the creaping thistle.

the tomatoes here get some kind of blight each
season but they still bear fruit and we get enough
so i've never treated for it.

Untreated, the varieties I grow just keep losing leaves until they
die.

i would not use copper sulfate for long as the
copper can build up in the soil.

It is a pretty light usage. A pound of powder lasts me a couple
years.

have you tried finding more resistant plants?
i have here but Mom is very fixated on what she
wants to grow so i gave up.

I doubt that modern hybrids would have any problem with it, but I'm
hooked on my Black Plum tomatoes. And my wife fully endorses the
resulting pasta sauce.

the troublesome weeds here are horsetail and
sow-thistle, but i've found out they can be
removed by manual methods and smothering once
you've got the worst of them cleared. you just
have to be sure to keep after any new ones that
may show up before they get going again.

I am a magnet for invasive weeds that spread beneath the surface.
I used to believe that mulch could cure everything, but bermuda
grass and creeping thistle have convinced me otherwise. Still,
mulch makes it easier.


--
Drew Lawson | I told them we had learned to change
| our swordblades into plows.
| I told them they should learn from us
| what should I tell them now?

Drew Lawson wrote:
songbird writes:
....
the tomatoes here get some kind of blight each
season but they still bear fruit and we get enough
so i've never treated for it.

Untreated, the varieties I grow just keep losing leaves until they
die.

that's what happens here too, but it is usually
late enough by the time the plants are done anyways.
perhaps planting more would work where you could
get the earliest crop and then just be done with
them before they get worse? the reason why we don't
go for other varieties is that we get between 20-40lbs
of fruit per plant so we get enough even with the
blight. it doesn't look pretty but i'm good with
how it goes.


i would not use copper sulfate for long as the
copper can build up in the soil.

It is a pretty light usage. A pound of powder lasts me a couple
years.

i tried babying the grape vine one season with it
to see if it made any difference. decided that once
i found a major flaw in the plant to just remove the
vine instead of continuing the spraying. i still
have the copper sulphate granules on the shelf with
the few tablespoons removed from the package. being
someone who has a hard time throwing things away i
should get rid of it but haven't yet.


have you tried finding more resistant plants?
i have here but Mom is very fixated on what she
wants to grow so i gave up.

I doubt that modern hybrids would have any problem with it, but I'm
hooked on my Black Plum tomatoes. And my wife fully endorses the
resulting pasta sauce.

yeah, i understand that...


the troublesome weeds here are horsetail and
sow-thistle, but i've found out they can be
removed by manual methods and smothering once
you've got the worst of them cleared. you just
have to be sure to keep after any new ones that
may show up before they get going again.

I am a magnet for invasive weeds that spread beneath the surface.
I used to believe that mulch could cure everything, but bermuda
grass and creeping thistle have convinced me otherwise. Still,
mulch makes it easier.

we have pretty hard clay soil for subsoil so
when the sow thistle gets going it can take
quite an effort to track it down to remove it.
the larger thistles aren't much fun either but
at least their roots are larger and easier to
find all the pieces.

mulch makes a lot of things easier. i
like how when the wood chips we use finally
break down they turn into the dark humus that
goes well in the veggie gardens. if i'm
lucky enough i can get enough to use in the
worm buckets as they'll recharge that and i
also mix in some garden soil to help give
the clay something more to bind to along with
all that organic matter. it makes for some
really nice fertilizer at the end of a year.


songbird

On 3/21/2019 2:34 PM, songbird wrote:
Drew Lawson wrote:
songbird writes:
...
i
grow tomatoes and strawberries without any *cides at
all.

Unfortunately, my garden is plagued by tomato leaf spot, so I am
dependant on copper sulfate. That's about all I use, aside from
RoundUp on the creaping thistle.

the tomatoes here get some kind of blight each
season but they still bear fruit and we get enough
so i've never treated for it. i have tried various
things recommended to eliminate it or reduce it
from happening, but each year it returns no matter
what. so since it doesn't cause us to lose the
crops i just continue to ignore it. the plants
look pretty sad by the end of the summer but by
then we've put up what we need so it's ok.

i would not use copper sulfate for long as the
copper can build up in the soil.

have you tried finding more resistant plants?
i have here but Mom is very fixated on what she
wants to grow so i gave up.

the troublesome weeds here are horsetail and
sow-thistle, but i've found out they can be
removed by manual methods and smothering once
you've got the worst of them cleared. you just
have to be sure to keep after any new ones that
may show up before they get going again.


songbird


Guy that sold tomatoes nearby said that you'd have to replace soil in
the garden by maybe 5 ft deep to get rid of the blight.

Frank wrote:
....
Guy that sold tomatoes nearby said that you'd have to replace soil in
the garden by maybe 5 ft deep to get rid of the blight.

which isn't ever going to happen... especially
considering it would likely come back for various
reasons.

even if we have a lot of clay it has taken me
a long time to get the garden soil in some of the
patches to be fairly decent. i'm surely not going
to be removing it. also considering i don't have
any easy way to move it around other than a
wheel barrow or bucket at a time.

i can live with it as it is.


songbird

On 3/24/2019 2:59 AM, songbird wrote:
Frank wrote:
...
Guy that sold tomatoes nearby said that you'd have to replace soil in
the garden by maybe 5 ft deep to get rid of the blight.

which isn't ever going to happen... especially
considering it would likely come back for various
reasons.

even if we have a lot of clay it has taken me
a long time to get the garden soil in some of the
patches to be fairly decent. i'm surely not going
to be removing it. also considering i don't have
any easy way to move it around other than a
wheel barrow or bucket at a time.

i can live with it as it is.


songbird


Not a lot of choice. Even growing tomatoes in pots on the deck getting
it, I replaced all the soil with new and still got it. I just put up
with the lower yields.

In article
songbird writes:

mulch makes a lot of things easier.

I read "Ruth Stout's No-Till Gardening" when I was about 13, and I
haven't been the same since.

The county yard waste place takes in brush/branches and grinds it
for free mulch. The only down side is that I have to load it myself.
Well, that and the fact that the garden is uphill from the driveway.

i
like how when the wood chips we use finally
break down they turn into the dark humus that
goes well in the veggie gardens.

My garden has been going for about 12 years. When I was tilling
last year, I was pleasantly surprised at how dark and fluffy the
soil was. It started out as yellow clay, which is still what is
down under the reach of the tiller.

I really should get it tested this year. I have no idea what the
N/P/K condition is, just the texture.

if i'm
lucky enough i can get enough to use in the
worm buckets as they'll recharge that and i
also mix in some garden soil to help give
the clay something more to bind to along with
all that organic matter. it makes for some
really nice fertilizer at the end of a year.


songbird


--
Drew Lawson | We were taking a vote when
| the ground came up and hit us.
| -- Cylon warrior

Drew Lawson wrote:
songbird writes:

mulch makes a lot of things easier.

I read "Ruth Stout's No-Till Gardening" when I was about 13, and I
haven't been the same since.

i've read so many different books on gardening...


The county yard waste place takes in brush/branches and grinds it
for free mulch. The only down side is that I have to load it myself.
Well, that and the fact that the garden is uphill from the driveway.

well of course! they didn't plan any of this
here and certainly would have been much better had
they brought in fill for where the gardens are at
now... too late now though.


i
like how when the wood chips we use finally
break down they turn into the dark humus that
goes well in the veggie gardens.

My garden has been going for about 12 years. When I was tilling
last year, I was pleasantly surprised at how dark and fluffy the
soil was. It started out as yellow clay, which is still what is
down under the reach of the tiller.

I really should get it tested this year. I have no idea what the
N/P/K condition is, just the texture.

i've never formally tested any of the gardens
here. how things grow can tell you a lot about
what you're lacking. when i first started out i
couldn't grow beets well at all and onions never
got very large. once i started adding the worm
compost the differences were pretty easy to see.
beets grew well, onions got bigger.

i'm now able to add some of the worm compost
to some of the poorest soil gardens i have and
i can see how that is helping the beans i normally
plant in there. the rows where i can get some
down the beans are darker and bigger and produce
more pods/beans.

if i were a little more dilligent about
chopping and using the green manure patch higher
nitrogen greens (alfalfa and birdsfoot trefoil)
i could make a lot more progress in that regards
too as those being chopped and left on the
green manure patch has really improved the soil
back there. it's sweet.


songbird

On 3/21/19 10:35 AM, Drew Lawson wrote:
Unfortunately, my garden is plagued by tomato leaf spot, so I am
dependant on copper sulfate. That's about all I use, aside from
RoundUp on the creaping thistle.


HI Drew,

I saw this running discussion on leaf spot. You may find it
helpful:

Remedy for Septoria Leaf Spot?? Help!!!
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/foru...ic.php?t=28190

-T