This is a website of the Curriculum Director WSU (Washington) Master
Gardener Program. Good info for those interested the more advanced/Master
Gardening aspects, especially her Myth papers:

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...les/index.html

or: http://tinyurl.com/afje26

If anyone has info from their area/or their AG Institutes I would
appreciate a link to bookmark.

g.

In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...%20Myths_files
/index.html

Thanks Gunner, this is a very informative site.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Zunx_goz4


http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/2...ra_hass_on_the

"gunner" wrote in message

If anyone has info from their area/or their AG Institutes I would
appreciate a link to bookmark.

What sort of links are you after? Presumably edible, but do you have
climate preferences or edible preference or......

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"gunner" wrote in message

If anyone has info from their area/or their AG Institutes I would
appreciate a link to bookmark.

What sort of links are you after? Presumably edible, but do you have
climate preferences or edible preference or......

Zone 8a WA State, between Sound Puget sound area and the foothills of Mt.
Rainier. lots of good water, little sun, tall trees, offsite imported
soils,
9x12 Green house and several beds, raised and yes, creosote and green
lumbers. No detectable arsenic leeching!

Lots of containers to move around and manage. Pretty fair hand at cooking.
Looking at more exotics to cook up. Presently have over 50-60 going. Want
to double that collection by next year. Controlled Environment Agriculture
and Hydroponics/Aquaponics are great interests, as well as ancient methods,
especially the Amerindian and MesoAmerica, Asian and Persian. Ancient
Shaman and herbal healing medicine lore, so the Desert SW is also a logical
interest. Plant propagation/seed collection is another interest that I am
just startin, . having problems with galangal taking root right now. Lemon
grass... got all 12 stick to root. Lemon trees are growing well, can't find
a Kariff lime tree up here. My have to order some stock as well as the
Seville Orange. Peppers are another great interest, want to collect & grow
more varieties of these, yet these are tough to do up here.

Oh yea...Sagan's Fine Art of Boloney Detection is sage advice I like to
follow. I follow Dr. Lynette Morgan of Growing Edge Mag, Dr. Linda
Chalker-Scott is pretty good read. Also, follow the Aztlan on
http://www.famsi.org/listinfo.html, plus some cooking blogs. Damn good
Photog, if I may say, cut my teeth long before Digital came along.

As I said, looking for some sage writers from some of the State's Ag
colleges, good mag writers, perhpas some of the State's Master Gardener
mags/periodicals.

You, what do you like?

"gunner" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
"gunner" wrote in message

If anyone has info from their area/or their AG Institutes I would
appreciate a link to bookmark.

What sort of links are you after? Presumably edible, but do you have
climate preferences or edible preference or......

Zone 8a WA State, between Sound Puget sound area and the foothills of Mt.
Rainier. lots of good water, little sun, tall trees, offsite imported
soils,
9x12 Green house and several beds, raised and yes, creosote and green
lumbers. No detectable arsenic leeching!

Have you moved? Did you used to post as Gunner A....? If you are, then
last time I read you regularly (in an ng where Offbr.... posts regularly, I
was then posting as Fran H....) I thought you used to live in California in
a pretty dry place???

Lots of containers to move around and manage. Pretty fair hand at
cooking. Looking at more exotics to cook up. Presently have over 50-60
going. Want to double that collection by next year. Controlled
Environment Agriculture and Hydroponics/Aquaponics are great interests,
as well as ancient methods, especially the Amerindian and MesoAmerica,
Asian and Persian. Ancient Shaman and herbal healing medicine lore, so
the Desert SW is also a logical interest. Plant propagation/seed
collection is another interest that I am just startin, . having problems
with galangal taking root right now.

I know that ginger is often treated with an antisprouting agent and as
galangal is part of the same family then perhaps yours could have been
treated too.

Lemon
grass... got all 12 stick to root. Lemon trees are growing well, can't
find a Kariff lime tree up here. My have to order some stock as well as
the Seville Orange. Peppers are another great interest, want to collect
& grow more varieties of these, yet these are tough to do up here.

Oh yea...Sagan's Fine Art of Boloney Detection is sage advice I like to
follow. I follow Dr. Lynette Morgan of Growing Edge Mag, Dr. Linda
Chalker-Scott is pretty good read. Also, follow the Aztlan on
http://www.famsi.org/listinfo.html,

Some very interesting stuff on that cite. Lots of plants I've never even
heard of and probably couldnt' grow or even get my hands on. thanks - lots
of meat to read up on.

plus some cooking blogs. Damn good
Photog, if I may say, cut my teeth long before Digital came along.

I find this site useful as you can search using ingredients which you have
on hand and as I'm the sort of cook who cooks from the basic ingredients, it
works well for me.
http://www.taste.com.au/

As I said, looking for some sage writers from some of the State's Ag
colleges, good mag writers, perhpas some of the State's Master Gardener
mags/periodicals.

You, what do you like?

Lord, that's a question and a half!

If you are who I think you are, I have some similar interests to you. I
have a particular interest in social history so that leads me to want to
know about how people survived and often thrived in an age when there was
far less technology than we have access to today and which in these days of
peak oil etc may yet come round again.

I have an interest in all the domestic arts (except dusting and vacuuming
which TMWOT thinking are just drudgery) so that means sewing (hand and
machine) spinning (both wheel and spindle), weaving, knitting, cooking and
preserving, gardening for food for humans and animals, gardening for
medicine's of a folk origin, gardening for physic health (flowers), domestic
animal keeping (which in reality at this stage just means chooks (and the
farm's beef cattle) but I am seriously tempted to add both ducks and rabbits
[for both fibre and food]. I even have a spot picked out for the duck pen
but as I started building a fruit cage and needed help from Himself, I
haven't yet broached the subject of the duck pen.

I tend to grow organically as I find in my situation (rural Australia - hot
in summer, frosty in winter, increasingly dry due to changes in weather
patterns) it works for me as it suits me 'social history' interest and it
also uses raw materials that are readily available from our farm,
neighbour's farms or from our fires, compost heaps, chooks, cows etc.

I am also a seed saver but a bit sloppy about it and grow only open
pollinated heritage varieties of the more basic crops such as tomatoes. I'm
not so fussy for things like rockmelons (cantaloups) and water melons, but
they are neither a basic crop nor even one that can reach maturity easily in
my climate anyway.

I also grow fruit and am interested in grafting and found this to be easy to
do and not at all a mystery.

Anyway, here are some sites which may or may not interest you. Some of them
are Australian sites but I find that I learn a lot from sites that are
'foreign' because they make me see things in a different light and to think
about other options.
http://www.pfaf.org/index.php
http://www.thelostseed.com.au/index.htm
http://www.4seasonsseeds.com.au/epag...4seasons_seeds
http://www.edenseeds.com.au/content/...ion=1&letter=A
http://www.seedsavers.net/
http://www.seedsavers.org/
http://www.cityfarmer.org/grandpasVG.html
http://www.kitchengardeners.org/
http://onestraw.wordpress.com/sub-ac...bbit-tractors/
http://www.greenharvest.com.au/

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:43:06 -0700, "gunner"
wrote:


, . having problems with galangal taking root right now.

Let it just sit in the pot and be patient. It can take much longer to
produce shoots than ginger, in my experience. In fact I just went
through the same things with two large chunks of galangal that I
picked up at a Thai grocery. The market had them wrapped in plastic
and refrigerated.

I just kept the pot in indirect light with regular watering. It took
at least 2 months for shoots to appear. In fact, I was about to dig
it up and toss it when I saw the eyes developing and re-buried it.

Turmeric can take a long, long time, too, even longer than galangal.

Boron

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

Thanks Gunner, this is a very informative site.
--

Your welcome, Billy. I read most all your links, some very good ones there.
I like to share info also and challenge my beleifs. Sometimes it is good
to recognize we tend to cherry pick our infomation according to our beleifs
and to challenge those very beleifs forces one to view the world thru a
different prisim. I try not to see the world as black and white, but rather
more greyscale. It that amatuer anthropologist in me. I sometimes think
Americans tend to do everything to excess; eat, drink....... even
proselytize. I mentioned to FARMI that I am a fan of Carl Sagan's The fine
art of Boloney Detection, which many dismiss just becasue he had atheist
views, completely missing his categories of stripping away the petty
BS/myths that we tend to use in debate/argument. " Tools for skeptical
thinking. ...What skeptical thinking boils down to is the means to
construct, and to understand, a reasoned argument and -- especially
important -- to recognize a fallacious or fraudulent argument. The question
is not whether we like the conclusion that emerges out of a train of
reasoning, but whether the conclusion follows from the premise or starting
point and whether that premise is true."

here is the wiki version of his points:
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/The_Fin...oney_Detection or
http://tinyurl.com/kwdbxm

when you get the chance you might preview another of Dr. Chalker-Scott's:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...dments%204.pdf
or http://tinyurl.com/loc252

she and many others have stated ; "Organic matter is fertilizer and is
composed of the same elements that make up commercial fertilizers. If
it is applied in excess, it will cause pollution problems just as surely as
those commercial fertilizers do." Lots of eco-examples on both sides of
that issue. perhaps it is an issue of over application. I find the more
pure the substance, the more likely it can be misapplied/misapplied.

BTW, 100lbs of 10-10-10 will yield 10 lbs of N, ~4.4 lbs of P and ~8.3 lbs
of K.
P and K are not elemental in fert labeling, you need to use the atomic
weights.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"gunner" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
"gunner" wrote in message


Thank you Farmi.



I have an amateur anthropologist view also. we had a old series her in the
US called the Foxfire books that I enjoyed. old stories of the hill folks,
bee keeping, chicken raising, gun making, bear hunting, even "shine"
stories. lots of old "getting by" stories from back in the day.



No, that is not me. we left Europe in 87 and moved here, retired in 92,
did a few contractor jobs and now just keeping busy with "things". Trying my
hand at Breads and Sourdough, would like to have some ducks and chicken but
we live in a development on the edge of some green belts, I do have a
neighbor with 8 acres behind me that raises chicken and pheasant. Been
thinking of Beekeeping. Definately have to learn canning. Tomatoes are
doing very well this year and expect to have a new hydro system this week
and another next month to test run for greens and lettuces in the late
summer early fall.



I am looking at all your links this week



Again, thanks. hope to read lots from ya.

"Boron Elgar" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:43:06 -0700, "gunner"
wrote:


, . having problems with galangal taking root right now.

Let it just sit in the pot and be patient. It can take much longer to
produce shoots than ginger, in my experience. In fact I just went
through the same things with two large chunks of galangal that I
picked up at a Thai grocery. The market had them wrapped in plastic
and refrigerated.

I just kept the pot in indirect light with regular watering. It took
at least 2 months for shoots to appear. In fact, I was about to dig
it up and toss it when I saw the eyes developing and re-buried it.

Turmeric can take a long, long time, too, even longer than galangal.

Boron

Good to know, I checked em, no rot but no signs of roots or sprouts as yet,
been a while, but the ginger took just last week-10 days, planted same time
..

Would love to find some turmeric, just going through all the Indian and
Asian spices to see what I may be able to maintain here. Dr. Morgan has a
list of Hydro spices/herbs that I am reading up on now. May be able to heat
them that way to get a longer season but still fighting the idea of
lighting the green house, the nursery is bad enough.

In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:

Thanks Gunner, this is a very informative site.
--

Your welcome, Billy. I read most all your links, some very good ones there.
I like to share info also and challenge my beleifs. Sometimes it is good
to recognize we tend to cherry pick our infomation according to our beleifs
and to challenge those very beleifs forces one to view the world thru a
different prisim. I try not to see the world as black and white, but rather
more greyscale. It that amatuer anthropologist in me. I sometimes think
Americans tend to do everything to excess; eat, drink....... even
proselytize. I mentioned to FARMI that I am a fan of Carl Sagan's The fine
art of Boloney Detection, which many dismiss just becasue he had atheist
views, completely missing his categories of stripping away the petty
BS/myths that we tend to use in debate/argument. " Tools for skeptical
thinking. ...What skeptical thinking boils down to is the means to
construct, and to understand, a reasoned argument and -- especially
important -- to recognize a fallacious or fraudulent argument. The question
is not whether we like the conclusion that emerges out of a train of
reasoning, but whether the conclusion follows from the premise or starting
point and whether that premise is true."

here is the wiki version of his points:
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/The_Fin...oney_Detection or
http://tinyurl.com/kwdbxm
Uh, when miracles come in, science goes out the window. As the Tom Hanks
character said in that horrible movie, Angels and Demons,"I don't have
the gift of faith".

when you get the chance you might preview another of Dr. Chalker-Scott's:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...%20Myths_files
/Myths/Amendments%204.pdf
or http://tinyurl.com/loc252

she and many others have stated ; "Organic matter is fertilizer and is
composed of the same elements that make up commercial fertilizers. If
it is applied in excess, it will cause pollution problems just as surely as
those commercial fertilizers do." Lots of eco-examples on both sides of
that issue. perhaps it is an issue of over application. I find the more
pure the substance, the more likely it can be misapplied/misapplied.

I don't think anyone here has ever recommended 23% organic matter. The
range (IIRC) has been 5% to 10% but it is an important note that
degraded OM can pollute in the same way as chemferts.
BTW, 100lbs of 10-10-10 will yield 10 lbs of N, ~4.4 lbs of P and ~8.3 lbs
of K.
P and K are not elemental in fert labeling, you need to use the atomic
weights.
Considering the atmosphere is about 78% N2, and elemental phosphorus and
potassium can be exciting stuff, I wasn't trying to be analytical here.
As I'm sure you are aware that agricultural nitrogen comes in the salt
forms of NH3 and NO3 but the percentage on the container is only for the
elemental nitrogen, not that of the compound, but strangely enough the
next two numbers are for the compounds and not the elements. To follow
along you must know that the atomic weight (at.wt.) of phosphorus is
approximately 31, and oxygen is 16. Phosphorus comes as P2O5 ([31 X
2]+[16 X 5]= at. wt. 142 for the compound, but the percentage of
phosphorus is P/P2O5 = 62/142 =.44) and the actual percentage of
elemental phosphorus is 44% of the percentage listed. Potassium comes as
K2O and the percentage of elemental potassium is 83% of the percentage
listed, or K = 39 (atomic weight) and O = 16, so K2O = 94, and %K =
K/K2O = 78/94 = .83 --- 83%.

Bottom line is that in a 100 lb. bag of 10 - 10 - 10, 10 lbs will be N
(as NH3 or NO3), 10 lb. of P2O5 = 4.4 lb. P, and 10 lb. of K2O = 8.3 lb.
of K.

Anybody still awake?

And that's why I said it the way I did.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer for further confusion.

Still, a good article. Thanks again.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Zunx_goz4


http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/2...ra_hass_on_the

"gunner" wrote in message "FarmI" ask@itshall be
given wrote in message

I have an amateur anthropologist view also. we had a old series her in the
US called the Foxfire books that I enjoyed. old stories of the hill folks,
bee keeping, chicken raising, gun making, bear hunting, even "shine"
stories. lots of old "getting by" stories from back in the day.

I know the series well. I got the first of the Foxfire books sometime in
the early?? '70s. I don't have the full set as some have obviously been
'lent' over the years and never came home again. I was going to throw the
remaining ones out to make more bookshelf space a few years ago and couldn't
bring myself to let them go.

No, that is not me. we left Europe in 87 and moved here, retired in 92,
did a few contractor jobs and now just keeping busy with "things".

Amazing how once one retires there are so few hours in the day. I',m amazed
now that I ever found time to go to work.

Trying my
hand at Breads and Sourdough,

I used to make bread all the time. For some reason, I've not been doing so
recently - must get back to it now our kitchen range is on for the duration
of the winter. There is less of a need now as we now have a superb bread
shop semi-locally. He does Beer Baguettes made form his own home brewed
beer and they last about 5 minutes from the time they get to our kitchen to
the time they disappear into our gobs.

would like to have some ducks and chicken but
we live in a development on the edge of some green belts, I do have a
neighbor with 8 acres behind me that raises chicken and pheasant. Been
thinking of Beekeeping. Definately have to learn canning. Tomatoes are
doing very well this year and expect to have a new hydro system this week
and another next month to test run for greens and lettuces in the late
summer early fall.

Bottled (you'd say canned) tomatoes are a good place to start if you get
some surplus. It's not rocket science and there is enormous satisfaction in
seeing shelves of home bottled goods lined up waiting for the winter.

There is a ng called rec.food.preserving which might be worth looking at.

I notice that American style jars are now available here and thought I might
buy a few of the smaller ones to try a different technique.

"gunner" wrote in message


when you get the chance you might preview another of Dr. Chalker-Scott's:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...dments%204.pdf
or http://tinyurl.com/loc252

Ummmm. I really, really object to her first paragraph, viz:
"the myths surrounding the amendment of soil prior to woody plant
installation are vast and firmly rooted. Soil amendment recommendations are
found in the “building healthy soil” genre of popular literature and consist
of sweeping generalizations regarding the benefits and uses of organic soil
amendments.

That description is in fact itself a myth, or at the very best, it is a
gross generalisation of the views held by organic gardeners.

I don't know anyone who gardens organically who would say that they are
storing fertilisers to prevent them from washing into streams.

she and many others have stated ; "Organic matter is fertilizer and is
composed of the same elements that make up commercial fertilizers. If
it is applied in excess, it will cause pollution problems just as surely
as those commercial fertilizers do." Lots of eco-examples on both
sides of that issue. perhaps it is an issue of over application. I find
the more pure the substance, the more likely it can be
misapplied/misapplied.

BTW, 100lbs of 10-10-10 will yield 10 lbs of N, ~4.4 lbs of P and ~8.3
lbs of K.
P and K are not elemental in fert labeling, you need to use the atomic
weights.

She's clearly writing about "excess" use of fertiliser and that is why I
have soooo much trouble with her para outlining the 'myth'.

It is far too easy to use chemical fertilisers to excess but for home
gardeners who use manures, they would have to use a tractor to apply
excessive amounts of fertiliser given the limited percentages of nutrients
there is in animal manures.

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"gunner" wrote in message


when you get the chance you might preview another of Dr. Chalker-Scott's:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...al%20Myths_fil
es/Myths/Amendments%204.pdf
or http://tinyurl.com/loc252

Ummmm. I really, really object to her first paragraph, viz:
"the myths surrounding the amendment of soil prior to woody plant
installation are vast and firmly rooted. Soil amendment recommendations are
found in the “building healthy soil” genre of popular literature and consist
of sweeping generalizations regarding the benefits and uses of organic soil
amendments.

That description is in fact itself a myth, or at the very best, it is a
gross generalisation of the views held by organic gardeners.

I don't know anyone who gardens organically who would say that they are
storing fertilisers to prevent them from washing into streams.

she and many others have stated ; "Organic matter is fertilizer and is
composed of the same elements that make up commercial fertilizers. If
it is applied in excess, it will cause pollution problems just as surely
as those commercial fertilizers do." Lots of eco-examples on both
sides of that issue. perhaps it is an issue of over application. I find
the more pure the substance, the more likely it can be
misapplied/misapplied.

BTW, 100lbs of 10-10-10 will yield 10 lbs of N, ~4.4 lbs of P and ~8.3
lbs of K.
P and K are not elemental in fert labeling, you need to use the atomic
weights.

She's clearly writing about "excess" use of fertiliser and that is why I
have soooo much trouble with her para outlining the 'myth'.

It is far too easy to use chemical fertilisers to excess but for home
gardeners who use manures, they would have to use a tractor to apply
excessive amounts of fertiliser given the limited percentages of nutrients
there is in animal manures.

FarmI, she was talking about landscape gardeners (I think we call them
cloth heads.) who load up the soil with organic material (OM) because
they read on a website that it was the thing to do. She was talking in
quantities up to 33% of the soil as OM. For vegetable gardeners of any
size that would require a skip loader, if you amended down 6 inches.
Which is the other thing that she hammered on was amending below the
root zone, especially near water. Not only would the land sink as the OM
returned to CO2 and H2O but the nutrients would run-off in the manner
that we condemn chemferts for.

She did four article on soil amendments (three of which I found) and I
don't think you would find her exasperation so grating, if you read the
first two, first, just to keep it in context.

Glad to hear you have a good baker near by. We just got one in our
little town. (The town is small but there are lots of little properties
around because this used to be a summer home area for people from San
Francisco back in the 30s.) I particularly like baguettes, but most
bakers in the area just took to calling their standard loaf a baguette.
Some of them have a tough crust and a chewy interior (anything but
French bread). Others put a plastic bag over them to keep them from
drying out (Oy(. Our new baker is pretty good, but still not quite
there yet with the interior of the bread.

I'm starting to fiddle with baking, just because white flour is so
devoid of nutrients. Anyway, enjoy the rain. It's our turn for some warm
sunshine now ;O)
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Zunx_goz4


http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/2...ra_hass_on_the

"Billy" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"gunner" wrote in message


when you get the chance you might preview another of Dr.
Chalker-Scott's:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...al%20Myths_fil
es/Myths/Amendments%204.pdf
or http://tinyurl.com/loc252

Ummmm. I really, really object to her first paragraph, viz:
"the myths surrounding the amendment of soil prior to woody plant
installation are vast and firmly rooted. Soil amendment recommendations
are
found in the “building healthy soil” genre of popular literature and
consist
of sweeping generalizations regarding the benefits and uses of organic
soil
amendments.

That description is in fact itself a myth, or at the very best, it is a
gross generalisation of the views held by organic gardeners.

I don't know anyone who gardens organically who would say that they are
storing fertilisers to prevent them from washing into streams.

she and many others have stated ; "Organic matter is fertilizer and
is composed of the same elements that make up commercial
fertilizers. If it is applied in excess, it will cause pollution
problems just as surely as those commercial fertilizers do."
Lots of eco-
examples on both sides of that issue. perhaps it is an issue of over
application. I find the more pure the substance, the more likely it
can be misapplied/misapplied.

BTW, 100lbs of 10-10-10 will yield 10 lbs of N, ~4.4 lbs of P and ~8.3
lbs of K.
P and K are not elemental in fert labeling, you need to use the atomic
weights.

She's clearly writing about "excess" use of fertiliser and that is why I
have soooo much trouble with her para outlining the 'myth'.

It is far too easy to use chemical fertilisers to excess but for home
gardeners who use manures, they would have to use a tractor to
apply excessive amounts of fertiliser given the limited percentages
of nutrients there is in animal manures.

FarmI, she was talking about landscape gardeners (I think we call them
cloth heads.) who load up the soil with organic material (OM) because
they read on a website that it was the thing to do.

Of course she is! And THAT ideed is central to my point about her first
para!

She was talking in
quantities up to 33% of the soil as OM. For vegetable gardeners of any
size that would require a skip loader, if you amended down 6 inches.

Yes. That is why I made the point about having to use a tractor to overload
a garden with organic nutrients.

She did four article on soil amendments (three of which I found) and I
don't think you would find her exasperation so grating, if you read the
first two, first, just to keep it in context.

No, she would still have grated. Any piece of work of that is presented as
that one is in terms of the Myth and the Reality, and can be read as a stand
alone piece SHOULD make clear in the first para what the hell is going to be
discussed. In neither the title or the Myth section does she make clear
which group of soil amenders she is talking about that only comes to mind as
one wades through the guts of the doco. Loose and sloppy stuff without that
precision.

Mind you, she's not on her own there. It seems that more and more people
with an academic background have limited literacy skills and cannot tell the
difference between a gerund and a split infinitive.


Glad to hear you have a good baker near by. We just got one in our
little town. (The town is small but there are lots of little properties
around because this used to be a summer home area for people from San
Francisco back in the 30s.) I particularly like baguettes, but most
bakers in the area just took to calling their standard loaf a baguette.
Some of them have a tough crust and a chewy interior (anything but
French bread). Others put a plastic bag over them to keep them from
drying out (Oy(. Our new baker is pretty good, but still not quite
there yet with the interior of the bread.

I'm starting to fiddle with baking, just because white flour is so
devoid of nutrients. Anyway, enjoy the rain. It's our turn for some warm
sunshine now ;O)

It's freezing here today and I've got a rug on my knee as I type. I should
get out and do some digging or humping and toting just to get the blood
circulating.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Billy" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"gunner" wrote in message


when you get the chance you might preview another of Dr.
Chalker-Scott's:
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...al%20Myths_fil
es/Myths/Amendments%204.pdf
or http://tinyurl.com/loc252


Good day to you both.