I'm building an 8' x 16' greenhouse. The foundation will be cinder
block between posts. I'm going to put a 2 x 8 bottom plate on top of
the cinder blocks. I want to avoid pressure treated lumber because of
the chemicles used. Anybody have a recommendation for a preservative
to use on the wood?

Thanks,

Jim

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:06:12 GMT,
(Jim) wrote:

I'm building an 8' x 16' greenhouse. The foundation will be cinder
block between posts. I'm going to put a 2 x 8 bottom plate on top of
the cinder blocks. I want to avoid pressure treated lumber because of
the chemicles used. Anybody have a recommendation for a preservative
to use on the wood?


Paint?

Pat
--
CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International: http://www.thehungersite.com/

Jim wrote:

I'm building an 8' x 16' greenhouse. The foundation will be cinder
block between posts. I'm going to put a 2 x 8 bottom plate on top of
the cinder blocks. I want to avoid pressure treated lumber because of
the chemicles used. Anybody have a recommendation for a preservative
to use on the wood?

Thanks,

Jim

Linseed oil??

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:06:12 GMT,
(Jim) wrote:

I'm building an 8' x 16' greenhouse. The foundation will be cinder
block between posts. I'm going to put a 2 x 8 bottom plate on top of
the cinder blocks. I want to avoid pressure treated lumber because of
the chemicles used. Anybody have a recommendation for a preservative
to use on the wood?

Thanks,

Jim

Jim,

Without knowing where you are located, what sort of use you will make
of your greenhouse, (seasonal, drainage, type of floor, etc) it is
pretty difficult to guess what would work. Basically, pressure
treated wood has the clear advantage that it works and will prevent or
diminish rot for quite some time. If you are growing food in soil
into which the materials in the wood might leach, that can be a good
reason to either not use it or move the food-growing beds. A
greenhouse is just about the worst possible combination of heat,
light, humidity, and enriched diet for wood decay. Anything that you
can put on the wood to accomplish the same ends as pressure treatment
is likely to (1) be at least as toxic, (2) offer more exposure because
you will have to apply it, (3) leach even more rapidly because it is
on the surface, (4) fail more quickly because it is on the surface.
You could begin by using some of the more rot resistant woods, cypress
for example. Being careful to avoid a way for water to wick to the
wood or pool on it will help. Unfortunately, even with careful
flashing, the weeping of GH sheathing will keep the sill plate wet
much of the time, not to mention your own watering. If you GH is
framed in aluminum, you might consider sinking bolts into concrete
filled holes in the block and attaching the metal to the block without
a sillplate.

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:39:24 -0600, B.Server wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:06:12 GMT,
(Jim) wrote:

I'm building an 8' x 16' greenhouse. The foundation will be cinder
block between posts. I'm going to put a 2 x 8 bottom plate on top of
the cinder blocks. I want to avoid pressure treated lumber because of
the chemicles used. Anybody have a recommendation for a preservative
to use on the wood?

Without knowing where you are located, what sort of use you will make
of your greenhouse, (seasonal, drainage, type of floor, etc) it is
pretty difficult to guess what would work.

NE Washington state, probably not used Dec - Feb, dirt floor, will
grow driectly in ground & off benches.

Basically, pressure treated wood has the clear advantage that it works
and will prevent or diminish rot for quite some time. If you are growing food in soil
into which the materials in the wood might leach, that can be a good
reason to either not use it or move the food-growing beds. A
greenhouse is just about the worst possible combination of heat,
light, humidity, and enriched diet for wood decay.

Agreed.

Anything that you can put on the wood to accomplish the same ends as
pressure treatment is likely to (1) be at least as toxic, (2) offer more exposure
because you will have to apply it, (3) leach even more rapidly because it is
on the surface, (4) fail more quickly because it is on the surface.

Good points. I may resort to pressure treatment as the lesser of
evils. There is the 'red stuff' and the 'green stuff'. Your best
guess as to which is 'less toxic'?

You could begin by using some of the more rot resistant woods, cypress
for example.

My options here are cedar & redwood. The local building supply
doesn't have cedar in 2x, no redwood available locally, hence the
question if I have to do it myself.

Being careful to avoid a way for water to wick to the
wood or pool on it will help.

Agreed. It will be on top of cinder blocks, so that will help keep it
off the soil & reduce leaching, but water will occasionally run over
the lumber onto the soil at the perimeter.

Unfortunately, even with careful flashing, the weeping of GH
sheathing will keep the sill plate wet much of the time,

? Not sure what you mean, but my last GH did not have that problem
(but that was many years ago).

not to mention your own watering.

Yes, though I'm careful when I water.

If you GH is framed in aluminum,

wood

you might consider sinking bolts into concrete filled holes in the block
and attaching the metal to the block without a sillplate.

Sounds like I need to look around more for cedar or redwood....


Thanks for your input & time. Much appreciated.

Jim

Jim, I would still try to find cedar. I lived in Arkansas for 4 years, and
treated landscape timbers started getting termites after about 3 to 4 years
anyway. Cedar is the lumber of choice of builders to put on the wall
between a house and an attached greenhouse or room containing a sauna or hot
tub. I guess they feel it withstands the additional moisture better. Do
you have access to Lowes or Sutherlands? If they don't have it, maybe they
can order it.

Good luck. Dwayne


"Jim" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:39:24 -0600, B.Server wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:06:12 GMT,
(Jim) wrote:

I'm building an 8' x 16' greenhouse. The foundation will be cinder
block between posts. I'm going to put a 2 x 8 bottom plate on top of
the cinder blocks. I want to avoid pressure treated lumber because of
the chemicles used. Anybody have a recommendation for a preservative
to use on the wood?

Without knowing where you are located, what sort of use you will make
of your greenhouse, (seasonal, drainage, type of floor, etc) it is
pretty difficult to guess what would work.

NE Washington state, probably not used Dec - Feb, dirt floor, will
grow driectly in ground & off benches.

Basically, pressure treated wood has the clear advantage that it works
and will prevent or diminish rot for quite some time. If you are growing
food in soil
into which the materials in the wood might leach, that can be a good
reason to either not use it or move the food-growing beds. A
greenhouse is just about the worst possible combination of heat,
light, humidity, and enriched diet for wood decay.

Agreed.

Anything that you can put on the wood to accomplish the same ends as
pressure treatment is likely to (1) be at least as toxic, (2) offer more
exposure
because you will have to apply it, (3) leach even more rapidly because
it is
on the surface, (4) fail more quickly because it is on the surface.

Good points. I may resort to pressure treatment as the lesser of
evils. There is the 'red stuff' and the 'green stuff'. Your best
guess as to which is 'less toxic'?

You could begin by using some of the more rot resistant woods, cypress
for example.

My options here are cedar & redwood. The local building supply
doesn't have cedar in 2x, no redwood available locally, hence the
question if I have to do it myself.

Being careful to avoid a way for water to wick to the
wood or pool on it will help.

Agreed. It will be on top of cinder blocks, so that will help keep it
off the soil & reduce leaching, but water will occasionally run over
the lumber onto the soil at the perimeter.

Unfortunately, even with careful flashing, the weeping of GH
sheathing will keep the sill plate wet much of the time,

? Not sure what you mean, but my last GH did not have that problem
(but that was many years ago).

not to mention your own watering.

Yes, though I'm careful when I water.

If you GH is framed in aluminum,

wood

you might consider sinking bolts into concrete filled holes in the block
and attaching the metal to the block without a sillplate.

Sounds like I need to look around more for cedar or redwood....


Thanks for your input & time. Much appreciated.

Jim

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:04:52 -0700, "Dwayne" wrote:

Jim, I would still try to find cedar.

I think that will be my first choice...

Cedar is the lumber of choice of builders to put on the wall between a house
and an attached greenhouse or room containing a sauna or hot tub.

Do you have access to Lowes or Sutherlands?

Not really. I live a long way from a 'city', not that I couldn't make
a special trip (though fuel is $2 per gallon right now....)

If they don't have it, maybe they can order it.

Yes, I'll let my fingers do the walking first.... somebody around
here must be able to get it.....

Thanks,

Jim

rest snipped

On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:19:33 GMT,
(Jim) wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:39:24 -0600, B.Server wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:06:12 GMT,
(Jim) wrote:

I'm building an 8' x 16' greenhouse. The foundation will be cinder
block between posts. I'm going to put a 2 x 8 bottom plate on top of
the cinder blocks. I want to avoid pressure treated lumber because of
the chemicles used. Anybody have a recommendation for a preservative
to use on the wood?

Without knowing where you are located, what sort of use you will make
of your greenhouse, (seasonal, drainage, type of floor, etc) it is
pretty difficult to guess what would work.

NE Washington state, probably not used Dec - Feb, dirt floor, will
grow driectly in ground & off benches.

[...]
Good points. I may resort to pressure treatment as the lesser of
evils. There is the 'red stuff' and the 'green stuff'. Your best
guess as to which is 'less toxic'?


See below.

[...]

Unfortunately, even with careful flashing, the weeping of GH
sheathing will keep the sill plate wet much of the time,

? Not sure what you mean, but my last GH did not have that problem
(but that was many years ago).


Your climate is probably less humid than mine, so it may not be a
problem. In Central TX, we have long periods where there are very
heavy dews. I get quite a lot of moisture condensing on the glass and
running to the sillplate, where I have installed flashing to help
carry it away.

not to mention your own watering.

Yes, though I'm careful when I water.

In our summer heat, I have to use automated and semi-automated
watering and cooling (mist), so it is harder for me to keep things
dry.

[...]

Thanks for your input & time. Much appreciated.

Jim

Jim, a couple of additional thoughts brought to mind by my own search
for materials from which to build raised vegetable beds. I had ruled
out railroad ties and CCA treated lumber. That left me with three
alternatives, masonry of some sort, the replacement for CCA, called
ACQ pressure treated lumber, and "synthetic" lumber.

I am reluctant to get into the amount of work and cost involved in
masonry. I will be replacing an existing open garden with 8 beds,
each 4'x20' and that is a lot of brick and mortar, not to mention
work.

Synthetic lumber (Fiberon is one brand, a google search will turn up
others) is either waste wood fiber mixed with recycled plastic or
almost pure recycled plastic. My research shows it to be quite
expensive, (locally, 5/4 x 6" x 16' are about $25 ea) available in
only a few sizes, not suitable for structural purposes (most of it is
for decking), and not guaranteed for use in contact with soil. (even
as decking it is warranted for only 10 years) It might be a useable
choice for you in some applications. (the sill plate, for example,
where it is well supported). There is one place (see:
http://www.syntalproducts.com/) relatively near you (Victoria, BC)
that manufactures pure plastice synthetic lumber that is recommended
for ground contact. They do not ship this far (Central TX), but might
be available to you in WA. I have found no local equivalent.

Finally, there is the alternative of ACQ treated lumber. The claim is
that it contains no EPA restricted materials, is approved for all
purposes for which CCA is restricted, and carries no restrictions on
disposal or recycling. (ACQ is Alkaline Copper Quat and I'll leave
you to read and make your own decisions) It is guarenteed for soil
contact and available in typical presssure-treated building lumber
dimensions.

I am leaning toward installing an ACQ bed for herbs with a soil test
after a year to see whats what. It seems to me that it is also a
reasonable candidate for your application in a wet, non-soil contact,
environment.

One further data point. I began with a 12' x 12'
glass/aluminum/tuffak greenhouse on a cedar stemwall. Three years
later when I wanted to add 6', the foundation was rotted almost
completely and the rest eaten by carpenter ants. I rebuilt with CCA
and painted it with Penta (NASTY stuff) because my GH sits on an
existing slab so there is nothing growing in the soil in it. The CCA
has lasted about 15-18 years and will need to be replaced in about 2
years, I believe. By then CCA will no longer be sold for residential
purposes and I'll go with ACQ without the Penta.

Rgds,

Good comments on solid core high density polyethylene, it would indeed be
highly suitable however, Syntal wholesales in bulk only and is not set up
for direct sales, let alone "small quantity" sales. You could use solid core
HDPE in 1x6 nominal, some is available through our Mount Vernon WA branch,
details http://www.ecologicalsgardens.com/

You could also use a non-toxic sealant that would serve to repel moisture,
two coats applied with patience will make even a cheap piece of lumber last.
There surely must be a local supplier! Somewhat broadly written info he
http://www.weatherbos.com/Environment/ccaarticle.htm

Hope that this is useful.
--
John H. Immink

http://www.renaissancegardens.com/
Outgoing email scanned by Norton 2002

B.Server wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 00:19:33 GMT,
(Jim) wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:39:24 -0600, B.Server wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:06:12 GMT,
(Jim) wrote:

I'm building an 8' x 16' greenhouse. The foundation will be cinder
block between posts. I'm going to put a 2 x 8 bottom plate on top of
the cinder blocks. I want to avoid pressure treated lumber because of
the chemicles used. Anybody have a recommendation for a preservative
to use on the wood?

Without knowing where you are located, what sort of use you will make
of your greenhouse, (seasonal, drainage, type of floor, etc) it is
pretty difficult to guess what would work.

NE Washington state, probably not used Dec - Feb, dirt floor, will
grow driectly in ground & off benches.

[...]
Good points. I may resort to pressure treatment as the lesser of
evils. There is the 'red stuff' and the 'green stuff'. Your best
guess as to which is 'less toxic'?


See below.

[...]

Unfortunately, even with careful flashing, the weeping of GH
sheathing will keep the sill plate wet much of the time,

? Not sure what you mean, but my last GH did not have that problem
(but that was many years ago).


Your climate is probably less humid than mine, so it may not be a
problem. In Central TX, we have long periods where there are very
heavy dews. I get quite a lot of moisture condensing on the glass and
running to the sillplate, where I have installed flashing to help
carry it away.

not to mention your own watering.

Yes, though I'm careful when I water.

In our summer heat, I have to use automated and semi-automated
watering and cooling (mist), so it is harder for me to keep things
dry.

[...]

Thanks for your input & time. Much appreciated.

Jim

Jim, a couple of additional thoughts brought to mind by my own search
for materials from which to build raised vegetable beds. I had ruled
out railroad ties and CCA treated lumber. That left me with three
alternatives, masonry of some sort, the replacement for CCA, called
ACQ pressure treated lumber, and "synthetic" lumber.

I am reluctant to get into the amount of work and cost involved in
masonry. I will be replacing an existing open garden with 8 beds,
each 4'x20' and that is a lot of brick and mortar, not to mention
work.

Synthetic lumber (Fiberon is one brand, a google search will turn up
others) is either waste wood fiber mixed with recycled plastic or
almost pure recycled plastic. My research shows it to be quite
expensive, (locally, 5/4 x 6" x 16' are about $25 ea) available in
only a few sizes, not suitable for structural purposes (most of it is
for decking), and not guaranteed for use in contact with soil. (even
as decking it is warranted for only 10 years) It might be a useable
choice for you in some applications. (the sill plate, for example,
where it is well supported). There is one place (see:
http://www.syntalproducts.com/) relatively near you (Victoria, BC)
that manufactures pure plastice synthetic lumber that is recommended
for ground contact. They do not ship this far (Central TX), but might
be available to you in WA. I have found no local equivalent.

Finally, there is the alternative of ACQ treated lumber. The claim is
that it contains no EPA restricted materials, is approved for all
purposes for which CCA is restricted, and carries no restrictions on
disposal or recycling. (ACQ is Alkaline Copper Quat and I'll leave
you to read and make your own decisions) It is guarenteed for soil
contact and available in typical presssure-treated building lumber
dimensions.

I am leaning toward installing an ACQ bed for herbs with a soil test
after a year to see whats what. It seems to me that it is also a
reasonable candidate for your application in a wet, non-soil contact,
environment.

One further data point. I began with a 12' x 12'
glass/aluminum/tuffak greenhouse on a cedar stemwall. Three years
later when I wanted to add 6', the foundation was rotted almost
completely and the rest eaten by carpenter ants. I rebuilt with CCA
and painted it with Penta (NASTY stuff) because my GH sits on an
existing slab so there is nothing growing in the soil in it. The CCA
has lasted about 15-18 years and will need to be replaced in about 2
years, I believe. By then CCA will no longer be sold for residential
purposes and I'll go with ACQ without the Penta.

Rgds,