Tekmanx Jul 11, 6:28 pm show options
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
From: "Tekmanx" - Find messages by this author
Date: 11 Jul 2005 15:28:26 -0700
Local: Mon,Jul 11 2005 6:28 pm
Subject: Bonsai newbie
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I just got some "Chinese Juniper - Juniperus Chinensis" seeds from ebay
and I'm ready to get started with the germination process, problem is..
I want to be very careful and make the most educated decisions when
growing this plant. I'm sure a bonsai guru will be here to confirm and
guide me through the process.

I also got this bonsai kit from ebay that are supposedly some type of
pine seeds, I followed all the instructions in the book along with the
steps given by the guy on this site:
http://www.irateweirdos.com/bo nsai/bonsai.htm

Here are the steps I took for the pine bonsai:

1. Soak on water for 24hrs.
2. Set in refrigerator wrapped in paper towel for one week.
3. Lightly press seeds into already moist pellet that came with the
kit.
(Final stage done about two days before this post)

Let me know if I am going wrong anywhere, your advice will be -greatly-
appreciated... did I mention this is my first bonsai plant? By the
way.. are there any good online resources for bonsai?

Here's a few pictures just in case my seeds were mislabeled .
- http://tekmanx.serveftp.com/~t ekmanx/Bonsai

Thanks in advance,
-Tekmanx

I would wait until next spring to plant the Pines. They need that cold period , but then you plant them im the spring. The d not do well indoors.

SteveW
Long Island NY


-----Original Message-----
From: Tekmanx
To:
Sent: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 05:15:36 -0700
Subject: [IBC] Bonsai Newbie


Tekmanx Jul 11, 6:28 pm show options
Newsgroups: alt.bonsai
From: "Tekmanx" - Find messages by this author
Date: 11 Jul 2005 15:28:26 -0700
Local: Mon,Jul 11 2005 6:28 pm
Subject: Bonsai newbie
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Remove | Report Abuse

I just got some "Chinese Juniper - Juniperus Chinensis" seeds from ebay
and I'm ready to get started with the germination process, problem is..
I want to be very careful and make the most educated decisions when
growing this plant. I'm sure a bonsai guru will be here to confirm and
guide me through the process.

I also got this bonsai kit from ebay that are supposedly some type of
pine seeds, I followed all the instructions in the book along with the
steps given by the guy on this site:
http://www.irateweirdos.com/bo nsai/bonsai.htm

Here are the steps I took for the pine bonsai:

1. Soak on water for 24hrs.
2. Set in refrigerator wrapped in paper towel for one week.
3. Lightly press seeds into already moist pellet that came with the
kit.
(Final stage done about two days before this post)

Let me know if I am going wrong anywhere, your advice will be -greatly-
appreciated... did I mention this is my first bonsai plant? By the
way.. are there any good online resources for bonsai?

Here's a few pictures just in case my seeds were mislabeled .
- http://tekmanx.serveftp.com/~t ekmanx/Bonsai

Thanks in advance,
-Tekmanx

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I emailed Tekmanx offlist, but this got me to thinking: I have *never*
gotten a query about one of these bonsai kits on my "bonsai doctor"
site. I get every other kind of newbie phenomenon: sulky serissa,
crispy juniper, sticky fukien tea, so I wonder if these things are so
spectacularly unsuccessful that no one ever gets the seeds to germinate
and live long enough to ask me a question. I cry whenever I see one of
these kits in a store. The *Smithsonian* sells them.

Here is how I germinate seeds for my research:

step 1) I read up on the plant in Dirr's "Reference manual of woody
plant propagation". He usually gives detailed instructions on
scarification of the seed, soaking it, giving it a warm period and a
cold period.

step 2) I plant a number of seeds in a large pot or tray filled with a
good potting medium.

step 3) We have warm and cool temperature greenhouses and overhead
misting systems. I pick what I want and incubate the plants;
germination can take several months, depending on the plant.

step 4) When the seedlings are big enough to handle, I transplant them
to their own pots. If I were raising these for bonsai (instead of
ghoulishly raising them so I can infect and kill them), I'd plant them
outside so they could grow big and strong.

Nina

Nina wrote:
I emailed Tekmanx offlist, but this got me to thinking: I have *never*
gotten a query about one of these bonsai kits on my "bonsai doctor"
site. I get every other kind of newbie phenomenon: sulky serissa,
crispy juniper, sticky fukien tea, so I wonder if these things are so
spectacularly unsuccessful that no one ever gets the seeds to germinate
and live long enough to ask me a question. I cry whenever I see one of
these kits in a store. The *Smithsonian* sells them.

Bookstores (Barnes & Noble and Borders) sell them, too -- on
the shelves with the books -- in the gardening section.
There's a "Mini-Bonsai Kit" and a "Bonsai Kit." Also a "Zen
Garden" kit.

Another way to rip money from the pockets of the
unsuspecting. At least in the Mini-Bonsai Kit, the seeds
are from the Italian Stone Pine. The instruction book
measures 1/8 inch thick by 2 x 2 inches, about 8 pages. The
info in it is OK -- nothing that will flat-out kill
seedlings. But nothing that will result in a bonsai for the
unsuspecting buyer, either.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I guess I better be very carefull what I ask here..getting flamed in
all.. j/k. Ok, so what do you suggest for growing indoors? And I'm in
Miami/The Bahamas. Something I can sit on my comp desk and say..
ocassionally set at the window for sunlight.

I guess I better be very carefull what I ask here..getting flamed in
all.. j/k. Ok, so what do you suggest for growing indoors? And I'm in
Miami/The Bahamas. Something I can sit on my comp desk and say..
ocassionally set at the window for sunlight.

On Jul 15, 2005, at 3:26 PM, Tekmanx wrote:

I guess I better be very carefull what I ask here..getting flamed in
all.. j/k. Ok, so what do you suggest for growing indoors? And I'm in
Miami/The Bahamas. Something I can sit on my comp desk and say..
ocassionally set at the window for sunlight.



I'd go with a succulent. A jade tree, Crassula
argentea/arborescens/ovata, or Elephant bush, Portulacaria afra (solid
green, not variegated.)

Craig Cowng
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Did you see the link in my very first post? About the kit, I didn't
plan to start this hobby.. I just saw the kit and was like "Oh this
looks cool, I should try it" I mean it only cost me $5? If that much.
The seeds have already started to germinate. I accidentally pulled one
out being filled with excitement, I thought it was a little pebble atop
my soil. At this rate I think I should have pics up by...say next 3days
with the main stem above soil level.

Sorry if I offended you by buying this... I guess the crooks that sold
it were successful in conning me..

Tekmanx

Damn, I didn't know I had so many options! I got a book alittle over a
week go "Sunset Bonsai", I'll look it up in the
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

I guess my next question is, what's the best site to order my seeds
from? I can't wait to get started... by the way, about the pine seeds I
got with that kit, I guess I'll still grow that in the background, give
the other trees more attention. I figure it would be good if 5-10yrs
from now I can look at the tree with pride and say "I did this".

Tekmanx wrote:
Did you see the link in my very first post? About the kit, I didn't
plan to start this hobby.. I just saw the kit and was like "Oh this
looks cool, I should try it" I mean it only cost me $5? If that much.
The seeds have already started to germinate. I accidentally pulled one
out being filled with excitement, I thought it was a little pebble atop
my soil. At this rate I think I should have pics up by...say next 3days
with the main stem above soil level.

Sorry if I offended you by buying this... I guess the crooks that sold
it were successful in conning me..



No one was offended at or by you. None of that was aimed at
you, but at the barsteds that market stuff like that to
folks who want to actually "do" bonsai. The seeds seldom
survive much beyond germination. Assuming a few DID
survive, they would take at least 5 years to make a baby
bonsai, and they are NOT trees that would survive indoors
under the best of office conditions.

The result is a disappointed customer who is certain that
the trees died because of something THEY did -- and it was NOT.

So, just have fun with the little seedlings if they sprout
and survive, but take Craig s advice and buy a succulent
that makes a nice bonsai, or perhaps a Ficus of some sort
that has small leaves.

Visit your local library and pick up a book or two on bonsai
and do some reading.

Have fun.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Tekmanx wrote:
Damn, I didn't know I had so many options! I got a book alittle over a
week go "Sunset Bonsai", I'll look it up in the

I guess my next question is, what's the best site to order my seeds
from? I can't wait to get started... by the way, about the pine seeds I
got with that kit, I guess I'll still grow that in the background, give
the other trees more attention. I figure it would be good if 5-10yrs
from now I can look at the tree with pride and say "I did this".

Sunset is one of the best beginning bonsai books. But
believe what they say about the trees that will survive
indoors. Very few will. Almost none will *thrive* in the
normal household or office environment. It's too dark, too
dry, and not warm enough.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Craig-I find the Portulacaria's are much much happier outside than in a
window, even a sunny one... the ones I have on my windowsill grow much
slower, are more leggy, and are soft and pale compared to even the ones that
are in the shade outside (I'm in S. Florida).... And actually, the
variagated ones seem to do better inside that the regular ones!
Portulacaria's are from africa and grow out in the full sun really well....
and mine don't seem to like the air conditioning.. Perhaps a jade tree would
take it better?

From: Craig Cowing
Reply-To: Craig Cowing
To:
Subject: [IBC] Bonsai Newbie
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:34:28 -0400

On Jul 15, 2005, at 3:26 PM, Tekmanx wrote:

I guess I better be very carefull what I ask here..getting flamed in
all.. j/k. Ok, so what do you suggest for growing indoors? And I'm in
Miami/The Bahamas. Something I can sit on my comp desk and say..
ocassionally set at the window for sunlight.



I'd go with a succulent. A jade tree, Crassula argentea/arborescens/ovata,
or Elephant bush, Portulacaria afra (solid green, not variegated.)

Craig Cowng
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************* *******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************* *******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Ok I think I'm starting to narrow it down. I'm now looking into growing
a ficus bonsai. I looked it up in my "Sunset Bonsai" book and it didn't
give a specific zone. Instead it says "Vary by species". Where I'm from
in the Bahamas, I grew up with ficus plants all around.. they have
created a border for my front yard, was the biggest tree at my school I
grew up in. There are many places that just flash back in my mind where
I saw a ficus plant, question is.. what species do these ficus belong
to? Which ficus is the right one for me?

Another question Little off topic here, can any tree be a bonsai tree?
What makes a bonsai....training or the actual parent tree? Hope you get
my drift, what I'm asking is.. is bonsai the name of a type of plant in
the wild.. or the name given to a plant grown with special care in a
shallow pot?

Also, do you guys have any suggestions on where I can purchase bonsai
plants/seeds/accessories from online?

Tekmanx
-Zone 25

Tekmanx wrote:
Ok I think I'm starting to narrow it down. I'm now looking into growing
a ficus bonsai. I looked it up in my "Sunset Bonsai" book and it didn't
give a specific zone. Instead it says "Vary by species". Where I'm from
in the Bahamas, I grew up with ficus plants all around.. they have
created a border for my front yard, was the biggest tree at my school I
grew up in. There are many places that just flash back in my mind where
I saw a ficus plant, question is.. what species do these ficus belong
to? Which ficus is the right one for me?

Another question Little off topic here, can any tree be a bonsai tree?
What makes a bonsai....training or the actual parent tree? Hope you get
my drift, what I'm asking is.. is bonsai the name of a type of plant in
the wild.. or the name given to a plant grown with special care in a
shallow pot?

Also, do you guys have any suggestions on where I can purchase bonsai
plants/seeds/accessories from online?

Tekmanx
-Zone 25

Ficus will not live outside in climates that have freezing
winter weather (though they do well outside in spring summer
and early fall in those areas).

Are you still in Jamaica?

Sunset's zone 25 is the equivalent to the USDA's zone 11 --
which is most of southern Florida. The Sunset National zone
system is MUCH better (more detailed) than the USDA zone
system, but for some reason has not gained that much acclaim
-- maybe because Sunset Magazine is limited to 10 western
(US) states, so is less well known over the other 3/4 of the
country or because it is more complex -- probably the
latter, we tend to prefer the simple approximation to the
detail of accuracy.

Anyway, Ficus will grow outside in zone 25 year 'round --
always with the _possibility_ of a freak winter cold spell
-- more and more unlikely these days.

Any tree CAN be a bonsai, but perhaps not a good one. It is
the method of growing them that makes a tree a bonsai. Your
Sunset book should explain this in more detail. A GOOD
bonsai is one with small leaves that are more in proportion
to the size of the potted tree. Thus a Southern magnolia
(or a "rubber tree" -- another type of Ficus) can be
"bonsaied" but won't make a good "bonsai" because the leaves
won't reduce enough.

As for supplies, you should go to our IBC Home Page --
address below -- and choose any of our sponsors.

And as far as seeds go, unless you just love the idea of
growing a bonsai from seed, that is a VERY long-term
proposition. You will do much better, faster, by buying a
suitable plant at a nursery and working with that.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

It's the Bahamas. Why does everyone get the Bahamas confused with
Jamaica? I'm in Florida right now though, will be going home in... -3
months?Anyway, that stated. You're saying ficus, cool I'll look it up.
Call me stubborn but I just like the idea of growing from the seeds.
Don't get me wrong, I don't plan to work with one specimen at a time.
So I picture myself with a couple of seeds maybe 5-10 little plants
germinating in the background while I play with the small tree I bought
in the foreground. This hobby.. from what I've seen is inexpensive so
far. However, you pay with patience...I plan to minimize this in a way
by having multiple plants grow the same time, I think I can get a bit
impatient at times.

Tekmanx
-Zone 25 (Bahamas)