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#1
06-07-2005, 01:50 PM
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[IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are books for
beginners. I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care. The articles at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the articles in the "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below) If a book is desired visit the library or book store and look for a book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in containers, such as watering, fertilizer, etc. Recently a post requested information on starting a forest from some collected, seedling maples. This person's biggest problem for now will be keeping the seedlings alive and since they were planted in a community pot, separating them into individual pots to grow, rather than arranging a forest. Although the poster probably didn't want to read the above sentence, they need to realize that growing the plants comes first, creating the forest comes second. I know I think like the teacher I am but I think basic addition and subtraction should be mastered before the student tries Algebra. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#2
06-07-2005, 02:39 PM
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Billy M. Rhodes wrote:
I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are books for beginners. I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care. The articles at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the articles in the "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below) If a book is desired visit the library or book store and look for a book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in containers, such as watering, fertilizer, etc. ALWAYS keeping in mind that bonsai books are NOT the best places to learn how to grow things. Too much of the horticultural information in bonsai books is out-of-date, specific to the author's home town, or flat our wrong! Almost all of the pictures show twigs growing in bonsai pots (which is why we get so many pics on the gallery of twigs in bonsai pots), but bonsai pots are for finished, or almost-finished trees. Period. Once a tree gets jammed into a small bonsai pot, it stops growing. And these twigs need to put on girth, get more, and twiggier, branches and otherwise spend a healthy childhood somewhere where they have a lot of root room. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plum full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you (that) the berries are just about all gone. -- Uncle Dave Macon, musician ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#3
06-07-2005, 05:36 PM
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The original poster wanted info on how to do a forest
planting. I recommedned Naka for that. You are right that it is not a basic book. In addition to reading on plant care I feel one should "become aquainted" wilth plant material in your care. I keep new to me plants for 6 months to a year before I work on them. I remember donating a plant for our club plant sale. The woman who bought my contirbution was really pleased with it, but ****ed that it died after she put it onto a different pot (within a month of peruchase, within 3 months of the original repotting). I told her it was her responsibility, she should have waited to transplant it. Kits --- "Billy M. Rhodes" wrote: I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are books for beginners. I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care. The articles at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the articles in the "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below) If a book is desired visit the library or book store and look for a book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in containers, such as watering, fertilizer, etc. Recently a post requested information on starting a forest from some collected, seedling maples. This person's biggest problem for now will be keeping the seedlings alive and since they were planted in a community pot, separating them into individual pots to grow, rather than arranging a forest. Although the poster probably didn't want to read the above sentence, they need to realize that growing the plants comes first, creating the forest comes second. I know I think like the teacher I am but I think basic addition and subtraction should be mastered before the student tries Algebra. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ **** "Expectations are resentments under construction." Anne Lamott ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#5
06-07-2005, 06:47 PM
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I'm not familiar with bbg.
Kits --- Steve wachs wrote: I think one of the books from bbg had info on forests. good beginners books in general for bonsai SteveW Long Island NY -----Original Message----- From: Kitsune Miko To: Sent: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 08:36:41 -0700 Subject: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced The original poster wanted info on how to do a forest planting. I recommedned Naka for that. You are right that it is not a basic book. In addition to reading on plant care I feel one should "become aquainted" wilth plant material in your care. I keep new to me plants for 6 months to a year before I work on them. I remember donating a plant for our club plant sale. The woman who bought my contirbution was really pleased with it, but ****ed that it died after she put it onto a different pot (within a month of peruchase, within 3 months of the original repotting). I told her it was her responsibility, she should have waited to transplant it. Kits --- "Billy M. Rhodes" wrote: I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are books for beginners. I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care. The articles at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the articles in the "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below) If a book is desired visit the library or book store and look for a book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in containers, such as watering, fertilizer, etc. Recently a post requested information on starting a forest from some collected, seedling maples. This person's biggest problem for now will be keeping the seedlings alive and since they were planted in a community pot, separating them into individual pots to grow, rather than arranging a forest. Although the poster probably didn't want to read the above sentence, they need to realize that growing the plants comes first, creating the forest comes second. I know I think like the teacher I am but I think basic addition and subtraction should be mastered before the student tries Algebra. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ **** "Expectations are resentments under construction." Anne Lamott ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ **** "Expectations are resentments under construction." Anne Lamott ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#6
06-07-2005, 07:16 PM
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On Jul 6, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Kitsune Miko wrote:
I'm not familiar with bbg. Kits Brooklyn Botanic Garden. For first books they are a good start. The new Sunset book is very good, as is the one just published by Ortho. Craig Cowing NY Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#7
06-07-2005, 11:07 PM
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Kitsune Miko wrote:
I'm not familiar with bbg. Brooklyn Botanical Garden. A series of three useful, but a bit disjointed booklets on bonsai. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect - Aldo Leopold - A Sand County Almanac ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#8
07-07-2005, 05:19 AM
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Although I am a member of BBG and get their nice series
of All-Region Guides, which are generally well produced and informative publications, I can't really recommend the BBG bonsai books to beginners due to wrong information. For example, the most recently published Pruning Trees, Shrubs and Vines booklet contains a bit of misinformation included in the book on page 88 at the beginning of the chapter titled, Special Cases: Pruning for Particular Purposes. The chapter opens with a statement that bonsai "is usually an indoor horticultural sport". We know that this is simply not true, and it reinforces a commonly held misunderstanding of bonsai and a reason for many misadventures in bonsai. Of course, while some woody tropical plants adapt pretty well to indoor conditions, most bonsai are grown outdoors most of the time. I also disagree with lumping Naka's Bonsai Techniques I and II together as unsuitable for beginners. While BT II was written for intermediate and advanced bonsai practitioners, BT I is an excellent beginner's resource in my opinion. Of course, I remember when it was a welcome new resource in a time when there were few of any caliber from which to choose. And it remains head and shoulders above the likes of the BBG books. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Steve wachs I think one of the books from bbg had info on forests. good beginners books in general for bonsai SteveW Long Island NY -----Original Message----- From: Kitsune Miko The original poster wanted info on how to do a forest planting. I recommedned Naka for that. You are right that it is not a basic book. In addition to reading on plant care I feel one should "become aquainted" wilth plant material in your care. I keep new to me plants for 6 months to a year before I work on them. I remember donating a plant for our club plant sale. The woman who bought my contirbution was really pleased with it, but ****ed that it died after she put it onto a different pot (within a month of peruchase, within 3 months of the original repotting). I told her it was her responsibility, she should have waited to transplant it. Kits --- "Billy M. Rhodes" wrote: I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are books for beginners. I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care. The articles at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the articles in the "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below) If a book is desired visit the library or book store and look for a book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in containers, such as watering, fertilizer, etc. Recently a post requested information on starting a forest from some collected, seedling maples. This person's biggest problem for now will be keeping the seedlings alive and since they were planted in a community pot, separating them into individual pots to grow, rather than arranging a forest. Although the poster probably didn't want to read the above sentence, they need to realize that growing the plants comes first, creating the forest comes second. I know I think like the teacher I am but I think basic addition and subtraction should be mastered before the student tries Algebra. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#9
07-07-2005, 06:51 AM
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Just a little more regarding Naka's books and Billy's
observation. I agree that novices do need to learn the horticulture aspect more than the artistic aspect initially. There's not much point in styling a dead, or soon to be dead, tree. But these are not mutually exclusive areas, and I am not at all persuaded that you should put off one while learning the other. It's just a matter of emphasis. I think John Naka, who was quite expert in matters of horticulture, realized that there are a plethora of good books out there on horticulture. It is hard to do justice to all the horticultural issues of bonsai in a single book. So he wisely focused more on the artistic aspect of bonsai. Several folks around here have a mantra not to trust horticultural information from a bonsai book. I don't especially buy that, except that information evolves and science has its fads/trends. While bonsai audiences seem particularly vulnerable to pseudoscientific claims and perpetuation of logical sounding myths due to our general lack of rigorous assessment of these claims, that doesn't mean that we can't get it when good stuff is presented. By sticking to the parts that make bonsai different from other horticultural endeavors Naka made a classic book which remains a solid and respectable source of bonsai information today. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Alan Walker Although I am a member of BBG and get their nice series of All-Region Guides, which are generally well produced and informative publications, I can't really recommend the BBG bonsai books to beginners due to wrong information. For example, the most recently published Pruning Trees, Shrubs and Vines booklet contains a bit of misinformation included in the book on page 88 at the beginning of the chapter titled, Special Cases: Pruning for Particular Purposes. The chapter opens with a statement that bonsai "is usually an indoor horticultural sport". We know that this is simply not true, and it reinforces a commonly held misunderstanding of bonsai and a reason for many misadventures in bonsai. Of course, while some woody tropical plants adapt pretty well to indoor conditions, most bonsai are grown outdoors most of the time. I also disagree with lumping Naka's Bonsai Techniques I and II together as unsuitable for beginners. While BT II was written for intermediate and advanced bonsai practitioners, BT I is an excellent beginner's resource in my opinion. Of course, I remember when it was a welcome new resource in a time when there were few of any caliber from which to choose. And it remains head and shoulders above the likes of the BBG books. Alan Walker http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org -----Original Message----- From: Steve wachs I think one of the books from bbg had info on forests. good beginners books in general for bonsai SteveW Long Island NY -----Original Message----- From: Kitsune Miko The original poster wanted info on how to do a forest planting. I recommedned Naka for that. You are right that it is not a basic book. In addition to reading on plant care I feel one should "become aquainted" wilth plant material in your care. I keep new to me plants for 6 months to a year before I work on them. I remember donating a plant for our club plant sale. The woman who bought my contirbution was really pleased with it, but ****ed that it died after she put it onto a different pot (within a month of peruchase, within 3 months of the original repotting). I told her it was her responsibility, she should have waited to transplant it. Kits --- "Billy M. Rhodes" wrote: I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are books for beginners. I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care. The articles at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the articles in the "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below) If a book is desired visit the library or book store and look for a book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in containers, such as watering, fertilizer, etc. Recently a post requested information on starting a forest from some collected, seedling maples. This person's biggest problem for now will be keeping the seedlings alive and since they were planted in a community pot, separating them into individual pots to grow, rather than arranging a forest. Although the poster probably didn't want to read the above sentence, they need to realize that growing the plants comes first, creating the forest comes second. I know I think like the teacher I am but I think basic addition and subtraction should be mastered before the student tries Algebra. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#10
07-07-2005, 09:24 PM
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ALWAYS keeping in mind that bonsai books are NOT the best places to learn how to grow things. Too much of the horticultural information in bonsai books is out-of-date, specific to the author's home town, or flat our wrong! Almost all of the pictures show twigs growing in bonsai pots (which is why we get so many pics on the gallery of twigs in bonsai pots), but bonsai pots are for finished, or almost-finished trees. Period. Once a tree gets jammed into a small bonsai pot, it stops growing. And these twigs need to put on girth, get more, and twiggier, branches and otherwise spend a healthy childhood somewhere where they have a lot of root room. Man, they got me with that twigs in a pot one. I've read quite a few beginning bonsai books, and while a couple have talked about "training pots," none of them have really explained what they are for or explained that you need root room for a thick trunk. |
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