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#1
24-06-2005, 01:10 AM
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[IBC] rock planting question
What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat,
but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real fine? I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them apart, and then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using featherstone)... would that work? Susan Marsh __________________________________________________ _______________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/g...ave/direct/01/ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#2
24-06-2005, 02:11 AM
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Sue:
Here is a formula which is attributed to Joe Day. I have used it quite succesfully. Good Luck, Carl L. Rosner MUCK for Slabs Joe Day Recipe: The recipe I use for muck is powdered clay and sphagnum moss with the moss being 80% milled sphagnum and 20% long fibered sphagnum. Dampen your moss and mix in the powdered clay until it forms a bread dough consistency. Sue Marsh wrote: What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat, but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real fine? I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them apart, and then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using featherstone)... would that work? Susan Marsh Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7 www.carlrosner.com http://www.yessy.com/arteacher3725 http://rosner.becanz.net ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#3
24-06-2005, 12:55 PM
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We use potters clay mixed roughly 50/50 with peat in the UK. That would be
called peat moss in the USA. Sphagnum moss is the same thing but fresh rather than rotted down for a few hundreds or thousands of years in a peat bog. I'm sure either would work equally well but the fresh moss, if kept damp enough, would regenerate a coating of new moss more rapidly. I think your proposed mix wouldn't be sticky enough. It would probably work with the addition of some clay. Cheers Kev Bailey Zone 9 N Wales, UK What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat, but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real fine? I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them apart, and then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using featherstone)... would that work? Susan Marsh _________________________________________________ ________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/g...ave/direct/01/ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ __________________________________________________ _______________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#4
24-06-2005, 01:04 PM
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Marc:
My face is red, since I, also, couldn't find powdered clay, and used a product called clay slip, which I believe is available in art supply stores (such as www.DickbBlick.com) or ceramic shops. I bought a gallon of it for a few dollars (years ago). I used just a little of it in the mix. Unfortunately I didn't measure it, but used it as part of the liquid. As a side note, everytime I pass the gallon jug, I turn it over, since it is a liquid clay, and it will settle out and will turn into a gallon of solid clay if left unattended. Carl Marc Zimmerman wrote: Carl, I have heard a similar formula from a nearby bonsai nursery. The only problem seems to be finding the powdered clay. One of their employees works for the RI School of Design where he was able to obtain it. Any notions for the rest of us non-artists? And, are there any specifics on the type/quality of the powdered clay? Marc [Original Message] From: Carl Rosner To: Date: 6/23/2005 8:11:01 PM Subject: [IBC] rock planting question MUCK for Slabs Joe Day Recipe: The recipe I use for muck is powdered clay and sphagnum moss with the moss being 80% milled sphagnum and 20% long fibered sphagnum. Dampen your moss and mix in the powdered clay until it forms a bread dough consistency. Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7 www.carlrosner.com http://www.yessy.com/arteacher3725 http://rosner.becanz.net ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#6
24-06-2005, 03:29 PM
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Yes, akdadama dust is great. I save all my sifted dust when making
soil. Unfortunately, there is never enough around for a large slab planting, etc. Kev Bailey was right on about potters clay. However, don't get the slabs of pliable clay at crafts stores - this WON'T work. You have to find a supplier of powdered clays for ceramic use. I find it at an Art School supply store. This stuff is great to mix with akadama dust, peat moss, etc. I also mix a bit of cheap potting soil - get the cheapest, spongiest stuff you can find. John Romano Rhode Island, USA -----Original Message----- From: Michael Persiano To: Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:30:15 -0400 Subject: [IBC] rock planting question Susan: If you can acquire powdered Akadama soil and chopped spagnum moss, the two in equal combination form a superb muck for use in all rock and slab plantings. Cordially, Michael Persiano http://members.aol.com/iasnob/pinebook.html -----Original Message----- From: Kev Bailey To: Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:48:21 +0100 Subject: [IBC] rock planting question We use potters clay mixed roughly 50/50 with peat in the UK. That would be called peat moss in the USA. Sphagnum moss is the same thing but fresh rather than rotted down for a few hundreds or thousands of years in a peat bog. I'm sure either would work equally well but the fresh moss, if kept damp enough, would regenerate a coating of new moss more rapidly. I think your proposed mix wouldn't be sticky enough. It would probably work with the addition of some clay. Cheers Kev Bailey Zone 9 N Wales, UK What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat, but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real fine? I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them apart, and then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using featherstone)... would that work? Susan Marsh _________________________________________________ ________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/g...ave/direct/01/ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ __________________________________________________ _______________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#7
24-06-2005, 04:56 PM
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John:
I simply crush the Akadama (soft) into a powder. );-)) Costly? Yes. Effective? The best. Also, potter's clay should not be used to cover roots in root-over-rock plantings. I know that you did not say this is an application for potter's clay, but some folks may think the two are interchangeable. Cordially, Michael -----Original Message----- From: John Romano To: Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:29:41 -0400 Subject: [IBC] rock planting question Yes, akdadama dust is great. I save all my sifted dust when making soil. Unfortunately, there is never enough around for a large slab planting, etc. Kev Bailey was right on about potters clay. However, don't get the slabs of pliable clay at crafts stores - this WON'T work. You have to find a supplier of powdered clays for ceramic use. I find it at an Art School supply store. This stuff is great to mix with akadama dust, peat moss, etc. I also mix a bit of cheap potting soil - get the cheapest, spongiest stuff you can find. John Romano Rhode Island, USA -----Original Message----- From: Michael Persiano To: Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:30:15 -0400 Subject: [IBC] rock planting question Susan: If you can acquire powdered Akadama soil and chopped spagnum moss, the two in equal combination form a superb muck for use in all rock and slab plantings. Cordially, Michael Persiano http://members.aol.com/iasnob/pinebook.html -----Original Message----- From: Kev Bailey To: Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:48:21 +0100 Subject: [IBC] rock planting question We use potters clay mixed roughly 50/50 with peat in the UK. That would be called peat moss in the USA. Sphagnum moss is the same thing but fresh rather than rotted down for a few hundreds or thousands of years in a peat bog. I'm sure either would work equally well but the fresh moss, if kept damp enough, would regenerate a coating of new moss more rapidly. I think your proposed mix wouldn't be sticky enough. It would probably work with the addition of some clay. Cheers Kev Bailey Zone 9 N Wales, UK What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat, but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real fine? I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them apart, and then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using featherstone)... would that work? Susan Marsh _________________________________________________ ________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/g...ave/direct/01/ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ __________________________________________________ _______________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#8
24-06-2005, 05:01 PM
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Um, ok so are we supposed to use potter's clay or not? Now I'm confused. I
did pottery for years and know about the different kinds of clay so that's no prob-but potter's clay is the only clay I know of that can be powdered? It's not a root-over-rock planting, it's a rock planting-I carved out holes in the featherstone and am going to plant the plants in those holes. So really, I gues my mix doesn't need to be too sticky since I don't need it to hold the plants on... hmmmmm From: Michael Persiano Reply-To: To: Subject: [IBC] rock planting question Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:56:26 -0400 John: I simply crush the Akadama (soft) into a powder. );-)) Costly? Yes. Effective? The best. Also, potter's clay should not be used to cover roots in root-over-rock plantings. I know that you did not say this is an application for potter's clay, but some folks may think the two are interchangeable. Cordially, Michael -----Original Message----- From: John Romano To: Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:29:41 -0400 Subject: [IBC] rock planting question Yes, akdadama dust is great. I save all my sifted dust when making soil. Unfortunately, there is never enough around for a large slab planting, etc. Kev Bailey was right on about potters clay. However, don't get the slabs of pliable clay at crafts stores - this WON'T work. You have to find a supplier of powdered clays for ceramic use. I find it at an Art School supply store. This stuff is great to mix with akadama dust, peat moss, etc. I also mix a bit of cheap potting soil - get the cheapest, spongiest stuff you can find. John Romano Rhode Island, USA -----Original Message----- From: Michael Persiano To: Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:30:15 -0400 Subject: [IBC] rock planting question Susan: If you can acquire powdered Akadama soil and chopped spagnum moss, the two in equal combination form a superb muck for use in all rock and slab plantings. Cordially, Michael Persiano http://members.aol.com/iasnob/pinebook.html -----Original Message----- From: Kev Bailey To: Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:48:21 +0100 Subject: [IBC] rock planting question We use potters clay mixed roughly 50/50 with peat in the UK. That would be called peat moss in the USA. Sphagnum moss is the same thing but fresh rather than rotted down for a few hundreds or thousands of years in a peat bog. I'm sure either would work equally well but the fresh moss, if kept damp enough, would regenerate a coating of new moss more rapidly. I think your proposed mix wouldn't be sticky enough. It would probably work with the addition of some clay. Cheers Kev Bailey Zone 9 N Wales, UK What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat, but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real fine? I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them apart, and then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using featherstone)... would that work? Susan Marsh _________________________________________________ ________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/g...ave/direct/01/ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ _________________________________________________ ________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ __________________________________________________ _______________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/g...ave/direct/01/ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#9
24-06-2005, 05:50 PM
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are there any craft stores near you? They all sell clay.
Steve Wachs ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#10
24-06-2005, 09:25 PM
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Sue Marsh wrote:
Um, ok so are we supposed to use potter's clay or not? Now I'm confused. I did pottery for years and know about the different kinds of clay so that's no prob-but potter's clay is the only clay I know of that can be powdered? It's not a root-over-rock planting, it's a rock planting-I carved out holes in the featherstone and am going to plant the plants in those holes. So really, I gues my mix doesn't need to be too sticky since I don't need it to hold the plants on... hmmmmm No. Treat each of the holes just as if they were little pots. The feather stone you are using is porous enough to drain. Jim Lewis - - This economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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#11
25-06-2005, 08:12 AM
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Carl Rosner wrote:
HI Carl whick kind of rock planting ? either you can use the *dusts* of akadama if you use akadama and keep them or take a lump of dried out clay bake to sterilize in the oven and than hammer to powder or scrape it .. thna you have to mix it equal parts with peat and you get a sort of yellowish sticky paste . you use it to fix the roots on the stone cover it again with same pongo .. if is a proeminent rock you can fasten it with an old nylon sock ,it will allow water to pass trought and roots not to, so will spred on the rock ( just done few months ago on a maple , ) than bury it all waithing at least one eyer for roots to grow long and deep under the stone will take generally 2-3 years , anyway exists differents procedures according teh sort of rock plantation you want to make i.e.: apparents roots on rock ,landscape, slab |
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#12
25-06-2005, 05:43 PM
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Well, I decided just to do the two rocks and see what would happen. I had
two featherstone rocks with 5 holes each for plants.... took over to my bonsai buddy's house for advice. What I ended up doing was using the soil the cuttings were in in the bottom of the holes, and mixed up muck for the top layer to hold the cuttings how I wanted. For muck I used low-fire clay, spagnum peat moss, and the featherstone chippings... about 20% clay, 70% spagnum peat, and 10% gritty stuff. Portulacaria afra is a pretty tough plant, so we'll see how these do with the mucky stuff. They don't need a ton of water... I figured once I get the rocks back here to the house, I'm going to set them into shallow containers of water. The featherstone is really porous and holds water well so I figured the roots will get enough water even around the muck. The rocks aren't home yet as I wanted to let the much set up a couple of days before transporting them in my truck again (I live on a very bumpy dirt road)..... Am already plotting to do another one, it's a good use for all the cuttings I have that still have a couple years to go  Susan L. Marsh www.susanszoocrew.com __________________________________________________ _______________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/o...ave/direct/01/ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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