Be careful of bonsai books and articles written in or translated to British
English. Most Americans (I hope) have figured out by now that what the British
mean by compost (potting soil) is not what we mean by compost (rotted
vegetation used to imorove garden soil).
But I was puzzled for a long time by British soil recipes which include
"loam." In the US, loam is rich heavy garden soil. I can't imagine using loam in a
bonsai potting mix. I finally figured it out when I ran across a reference to
Akadama as "loam." They mean clay, especially fired or processed clay. So if
you see a bonsai soil recipe which calls for 1/3 loam, read Turface,
Terragreen, or something similar.
Iris

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Hi Iris
it is amusing my Babylone translator( taht gives teh meaning of a word
in different languags as you choose
say: Loam
Soil rich in decaying matter ( enlish-english translation
un the following window
English french says : soil rich in Clay (argile)


wrote:

Be careful of bonsai books and articles written in or translated to British
English. Most Americans (I hope) have figured out by now that what the British
mean by compost (potting soil) is not what we mean by compost (rotted
vegetation used to imorove garden soil).
But I was puzzled for a long time by British soil recipes which include
"loam." In the US, loam is rich heavy garden soil. I can't imagine using loam in a
bonsai potting mix. I finally figured it out when I ran across a reference to
Akadama as "loam." They mean clay, especially fired or processed clay. So if
you see a bonsai soil recipe which calls for 1/3 loam, read Turface,
Terragreen, or something similar.
Iris

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In a message dated 3/27/05 12:02:09 AM, writes:
I finally figured it out when I ran across a reference to Akadama as
"loam." They mean clay, especially fired or processed clay.

Kevin Bailey informs me that I am mistaken, & the dictionary definition of
loam is the same in UK as it is here. That makes some of the bonsai books even
more puzzling. Is the British climate such that loam is really an appropriate
bonsai soil component? Is British loam somehow different from American loam?
Iris
Gardening Rule: When weeding, the best way to make sure you are removing a
weed and not a valuable plant is to pull on it. If it comes out of the ground
easily, it is a valuable plant.

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In a message dated 3/26/2005 10:20:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Be careful of bonsai books and articles written in or translated to British

English. Most Americans (I hope) have figured out by now that what the
British
mean by compost (potting soil) is not what we mean by compost (rotted
vegetation used to improve garden soil).

And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of
"compost."

Loam means loam in the older Bonsai books, they just didn't water as
often. Loam means a soil that holds together when damp and squeezed in the
fist. There is a technical definition that includes moisture content and how long
it holds a clump.

But I was puzzled for a long time by British soil recipes which include
"loam." In the US, loam is rich heavy garden soil.


Billy on the Florida Space Coast

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Naka said Black loam so it must be rich soil loam per se il clay

wrote:

In a message dated 3/27/05 12:02:09 AM, writes:

I finally figured it out when I ran across a reference to Akadama as
"loam." They mean clay, especially fired or processed clay.


Kevin Bailey informs me that I am mistaken, & the dictionary definition of
loam is the same in UK as it is here. That makes some of the bonsai books even
more puzzling. Is the British climate such that loam is really an appropriate
bonsai soil component? Is British loam somehow different from American loam?
Iris
Gardening Rule: When weeding, the best way to make sure you are removing a
weed and not a valuable plant is to pull on it. If it comes out of the ground
easily, it is a valuable plant.

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In the UK manure is animal excrement, more often than not from the back end
of a horse. Compost is rotted vegetation, exactly the same as over there.
The difficulty you seem to be having is that we have potting composts, which
are mainly composed of peat or coconut fibre.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Billy M. Rhodes"
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 5:36 PM
Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem


In a message dated 3/26/2005 10:20:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Be careful of bonsai books and articles written in or translated to
British

English. Most Americans (I hope) have figured out by now that what the
British
mean by compost (potting soil) is not what we mean by compost (rotted
vegetation used to improve garden soil).

And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent
of
"compost."

Loam means loam in the older Bonsai books, they just didn't water
as
often. Loam means a soil that holds together when damp and squeezed in the
fist. There is a technical definition that includes moisture content and
how long
it holds a clump.

But I was puzzled for a long time by British soil recipes which include
"loam." In the US, loam is rich heavy garden soil.


Billy on the Florida Space Coast


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****
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MANURE meaning compost is an old term from back when compost was mostly made
from manure. I have a great 3" thick book (it is lent out at the moment so I
can't quote it unfortunately) from the 1940's that explains how to compost
plant materials (types, ratios, sizes of piles, etc.) for from small guys to
huge farms. Since most of what they were using back then WAS manure, they
still called the finished compost "manure" even though it was vegetative in
origin.

LOAM is defined as equal parts sand (larger particles), silt (smaller
particles) and clay (tiny particles so small they hold an electric charge
and literally stick together). Loam properties do include the ability to at
least slightly hold a shape when moist as well as breaks up into small
chunks easily when dry. As a soil type, other than sand, it is really the
only one that holds air and, like sand, plays well (doesn't clump up) with
other particles in your soil making it of possible use in Bonsai mixes.
Unlike sand, with the different particle sizes making up each little piece,
it does hold some water. USDA Soil Conservation Service gives this rather
technical definition: 7-27% clay particles, 28-50% silt particles, and less
than 52% sand particles. So you would not say you had 50% loam and 50% clay
since loam is a mix; rather that would be clayey loam -- or loam that stuck
together more than it should which would be a real stinker in a bonsai pot!

hth,
John
in Houston...and a former Soils Specialist in a region where everything but
the sand is "clayey"

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In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes:
And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of
"compost."

Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer.
Iris

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Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem


In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes:
And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of
"compost."

Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer.
Iris


But, Iris,

When I say fertilizer I do not mean manure - when I had horses, I
did not shovel fertilizer, I shovelled manure. I did "compost" manure if I
wanted to use it on the roses.
I never used manure alone - I was always advised not to do so.
Lynn

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This conversation, if I may be so bold, is a load of manure.!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Boyd"
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 7:08 PM
Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem


Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem


In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes:
And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of
"compost."

Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer.
Iris


But, Iris,

When I say fertilizer I do not mean manure - when I had horses,
I did not shovel fertilizer, I shovelled manure. I did "compost" manure
if I wanted to use it on the roses.
I never used manure alone - I was always advised not to do so.
Lynn

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John T. Jarrett wrote:

Hi John
since loam is a mix; rather that would be clayey loam -- or loam that stuck
together more than it should which would be a real stinker in a bonsai pot!

all loam is as it degradates wery quickly this is why Akadama a sort

of harder loam is better ..
its only use is for drainage

substitute it with coarse sand or coarse lava o pumice or neuter
stone ( not calcar )like granite with sharp edges(very important) and
you will get the same risult ,& with no problems of soil that might get
clumped and the roots will split more easily and grow dense

I bought a palmatum deshojo that was grown in a sort of 4 mm granite
gravel
teh soil was drying a little too fast I agree, but the plant was growing
wonderfully well and when repotted I found the best roots system ever
extremely dense and very *hairy *
since then for my climate zone 7 I use coarse gravel + some
Compost home made ( rotten oak leaves )25%
when I repot
I recuperate the gravel by sifting and wash and sterlize and use it
again






hth,
John
in Houston...and a former Soils Specialist in a region where everything but
the sand is "clayey"

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Hi Lynn

Lynn Boyd wrote:

Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem


In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes:

And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent of
"compost."

Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer.
Iris
you *composted * manure

that is a way to make manure, too acidic and burning plants,

to degradate and be good for your roses ..

manure is manure( cattle only) from birds is called guano

,and compost or composting is a physical chemical action on organic

substances done by enzymes that breake thezhm down

and after 12 16 months the compost is ready to be used
it becomes a rich soil that addes with some sand can be used as such
or in mix

Hi Marty

Marty Haber wrote:

This conversation, if I may be so bold, is a load of manure.!
no it is interesting as we realize how words change from country to
country and as each person sometimes *thinks * it means and often is
wrong and this leads to problems
on the contrary even ifis a little bit tedious it is very usefuil IMHO

Theo
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

On Mar 27, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Lynn Boyd wrote:

Subject: [IBC] Soil Language Problem


In a message dated 3/27/05 11:36:48 AM, GOPHERHILL writes:
And when the British say "manure" they mean the American equivalent
of
"compost."

Oh dear, no. Manure means fertilizer.
Iris


But, Iris,

When I say fertilizer I do not mean manure - when I had
horses, I did not shovel fertilizer, I shovelled manure. I did
"compost" manure if I wanted to use it on the roses.
I never used manure alone - I was always advised not to do so.
Lynn


Bear in mind that the word "manure" does not always mean animal
excrement. When I was doing vegetable gardening people used to talk
about "green manure"--usually a winter rye or something like that which
could be plowed under in the spring to add nutrients to the soil.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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