Neal,

Amur germinates like a weed so it is not the best comparison (I collect mine
from local trees. I have the same situation and hope that the trident maple
is just slow. I do know that old trident seed is very poor in the
germination department. I also have A. palmatum which has come up and is
generally less robust than amur, but still no signs from the trident flats.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Neal Ross
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 11:08 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Amur and Trident maple germinating differences

Last summer I purchased some Trident maple and Amur Maple seeds from
Angelgrove Seed Co. I followed the instructions that came with them for
stratification and planting. I now have over 50 Amur maple seedlings and one
Trident. Is there a slower germinating period for Tridents or did I just get
a bad batch of seeds? Also, all my black pines and lacebark pines came up
too, so I know I did something right.

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At 02:07 PM 5/4/03 -0500, Neal Ross wrote:
Last summer I purchased some Trident maple and Amur Maple seeds from
Angelgrove Seed Co. I followed the instructions that came with them for
stratification and planting. I now have over 50 Amur maple seedlings and
one Trident. Is there a slower germinating period for Tridents or did I
just get a bad batch of seeds? Also, all my black pines and lacebark pines
came up too, so I know I did something right.

Neal

This is not unusual. Trident maple, Acer buergerianum is just like Acer
palmatum with regard to seed germination. Once the seed is thoroughly dried
and stored, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to get it to
germinate. Acer buergerianum is best collected fresh in the fall and
immediately soaked and stored in the refrigerator for the winter. I
understand that this may be next to impossible when buying seed from a company.

I think you are in N. CA. There are a number of larger Tridents planted in
the landscape in this area since the weather is mild enough for them. I get
my seed from a huge tree on the Santa Rosa Jr. College campus in Santa Rosa.

There is one thing you can try. Many Acer species need multiple
pretreatments to break down a series of germination inhibitors. Since you
have given it a cold moist pretreatment, proceed to a warm moist one. Keep
it at 70F for three months, or through the summer, then put it back in the
refrigerator this fall for another cold pretreatment. You should never
allow the seed to dry out during this entire process. If it doesn't
germinate after you take it out of the fridge next spring, it is probably
hopeless.

You can also check the seed for viability by cutting a few seeds open and
checking the kernel. It should be hard and cream colored, but not dry and
chalky, or dark, or mushy. A concave cutter is good for cutting them open.

Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com

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HI Brent
I have here on my desk 2 leaves and 4 seeds of "Acer sempervirens* or maple form
Creta
it is a sort of trident maple small leaves quite hard like bay leaves it is making
a lot of seeds actually ( May in Europe Geneva botanic garden )
I made a scan if you wish to see it
It only looses partially the leaves during the cold winther here
When should I collect seeds? september? they seems quite in advance for the
season..
and making cuttings ? is june the best season for ?
thanks for your feed back
Theo

Brent Walston wrote:

At 02:07 PM 5/4/03 -0500, Neal Ross wrote:
Last summer I purchased some Trident maple and Amur Maple seeds from
Angelgrove Seed Co. I followed the instructions that came with them for
stratification and planting. I now have over 50 Amur maple seedlings and
one Trident. Is there a slower germinating period for Tridents or did I
just get a bad batch of seeds? Also, all my black pines and lacebark pines
came up too, so I know I did something right.

Neal

This is not unusual. Trident maple, Acer buergerianum is just like Acer
palmatum with regard to seed germination. Once the seed is thoroughly dried
and stored, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to get it to
germinate. Acer buergerianum is best collected fresh in the fall and
immediately soaked and stored in the refrigerator for the winter. I
understand that this may be next to impossible when buying seed from a company.

I think you are in N. CA. There are a number of larger Tridents planted in
the landscape in this area since the weather is mild enough for them. I get
my seed from a huge tree on the Santa Rosa Jr. College campus in Santa Rosa.

There is one thing you can try. Many Acer species need multiple
pretreatments to break down a series of germination inhibitors. Since you
have given it a cold moist pretreatment, proceed to a warm moist one. Keep
it at 70F for three months, or through the summer, then put it back in the
refrigerator this fall for another cold pretreatment. You should never
allow the seed to dry out during this entire process. If it doesn't
germinate after you take it out of the fridge next spring, it is probably
hopeless.

You can also check the seed for viability by cutting a few seeds open and
checking the kernel. It should be hard and cream colored, but not dry and
chalky, or dark, or mushy. A concave cutter is good for cutting them open.

Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com

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My season for collecting Maple seeds is as soon as the wings start to
turn brown. This can be as early as late July in my part of the world,
depending on species and weather.

I take cuttings as the new shoots harden.

Cheers

Kev Bailey


I have here on my desk 2 leaves and 4 seeds of "Acer sempervirens* or
maple form
Creta
it is a sort of trident maple small leaves quite hard like bay leaves
it is making
a lot of seeds actually ( May in Europe Geneva botanic garden )
I made a scan if you wish to see it
It only looses partially the leaves during the cold winther here
When should I collect seeds? september? they seems quite in advance
for the
season..
and making cuttings ? is june the best season for ?
thanks for your feed back
Theo



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At 05:17 PM 5/5/03 +0200, Theo wrote:
HI Brent
I have here on my desk 2 leaves and 4 seeds of "Acer sempervirens* or
maple form
Creta
it is a sort of trident maple small leaves quite hard like bay leaves
it is making
a lot of seeds actually ( May in Europe Geneva botanic garden )
I made a scan if you wish to see it
It only looses partially the leaves during the cold winther here
When should I collect seeds? september? they seems quite in advance for the
season..
and making cuttings ? is june the best season for ?
thanks for your feed back

Theo

I can't find A. sempervirens in any of my seed sources, so I will take a
guess. Acer species seem to fall into two categories with regard to seed,
spring ripening and fall ripening. Spring ripening seed forms from flowers
that develop in very early spring as the leaves emerge. The seed develops
immediately and is ripe in about a month or two. You can tell the seed is
ripe because the seed will begin to dry a bit and perhaps start falling
from the tree. This seed must be soaked and planted immediately at 70F or
above. Your tree probably falls into this category.

If you want to play it safe, divide the seed in half. Plant half when you
think it is ripe. Leave the rest on the tree. When it starts falling from
the tree by itself, soak it and put it in the refrigerator until next spring.


Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Evergreen Gardenworks wrote:



Hi Brent

Theo

I can't find A. sempervirens in any of my seed sources, so I will take a
guess.

it is what is written on teh tag with the tree also say Creta maple ( greek
island)
will check it again next week end as I am keeping en eye on the seeds taht are
growing very fast

snip

If you want to play it safe, divide the seed in half. Plant half when you
think it is ripe. Leave the rest on the tree. When it starts falling from
the tree by itself, soak it and put it in the refrigerator until next spring.

thansk will follow the advice and will keep you posted about
Theo



Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com

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************************************************** ******************************
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--
How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me?
Theo
http://www.byjoke.com/

At 07:48 PM 5/6/03 +0200, Theo wrote:
Evergreen Gardenworks wrote:

I can't find A. sempervirens in any of my seed sources, so I will take a
guess.

it is what is written on teh tag with the tree also say Creta maple
( greek
island)
will check it again next week end as I am keeping en eye on the seeds
taht are
growing very fast

Theo

You misunderstand me. A. sempervirens is a valid name, my books on seed
just don't cover it. It is listed in Maples of the World, but there is no
information on seed ripening or pretreatment.


Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com

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++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++