On 05/05/15 15:38, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Nick Maclaren wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:30:50 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 05/05/15 12:02, Nick Maclaren wrote:

Unfortunately, due to the hysteria of the ignorant, it is unlikely to
be in time to save many of the UK's woodland underplants and animals
(including birds and butterflies). I don't expect to live to see the
deer menace (and it IS an ecological menace) alleviated.

So let me get this straight - anyone who disagrees with you is
"hysterical" and "ignorant".

How patronising.

No, just you.

You're special.

In case anyone failed to notice, this was a forgery.

The trolls are out in force...

Anyway - I suspect we are doomed to disagree - and whilst you may feel
more qualified, it would be good to accept that other folk may not feel
particularly at ease with the re-introduction of less than fluffy new
animals (or even very old but locally extinct) animals... I claim no
particular qualifications re lynx, bears or wolves, but I do not want
any of them roaming around near me...

In article ,
says...

Oh, and you know what you have to do to stop a 'charging' grizzly
if you have a small gun like a .30-06? You drop to one knee, wait
until it is pretty close, and shoot it through the heart.


Thankyou Nick, useful advice.

Janet

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

Well, whatever. I do not want to be meeting lynx, bears or wolves when I
go walking. I am very grateful this country has none left and I like it
that way...

You do know that roe deer are more dangerous to humans than either
lynx or wolves, don't you?

Red deer stags here can be highly territorial/aggressive during the
rut. A large stag could disembowel you with its forefeet while you were
trying to dodge being stabbed by the antlers.

Janet

In article ,
says...

On 03/05/15 15:38, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

Well, whatever. I do not want to be meeting lynx, bears or wolves when I
go walking. I am very grateful this country has none left and I like it
that way...

You do know that roe deer are more dangerous to humans than either
lynx or wolves, don't you? And that cattle are more dangerous than
even bears?

Sorry but that is the biggest nonsense I have ever heard

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotlan...ttack-tourist-
serious-but-stable-in-hospital-1-3251951

http://www.london24.com/news/dog_wal...t_aggressive_i
n_richmond_park_1_3620974

Janet.

On Sat, 02 May 2015 22:45:30 +0100, Bob Hobden wrote:

Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in
some other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control
the Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

-- Regards Bob Hobden Posting to this Newsgroup from the W.of London. UK

In all the comment, there has been very little about the predator/prey
cycle.

If there are a lot of prey, then the predators breed and expand because of
an "unlimited" food supply.

At some point the number of predators rises enough that they no longer
have a guaranteed food supply and they compete for the remaining prey.

The prey population drops dramatically because they are being over
predated/consumed, and then the predators starve and die off in turn.

The pressure is then off the prey, who start to breed again and expand in
numbers.

Rinse and repeat.

However in one part of the cycle you have a large number of starving
predators with little or no natural prey - this is always assuming that
the Lynx is a good little wild pussy and only preys on the deer you are
hoping to control.
[Having seen a black fallow deer very recently, anything that can tackle
that can tackle most farm animals and domestic pets.]

So before championing the return of Lynx and wolves you have to be very
sure that when they are over populated and starving they will not be a
threat to farm animals, domestic pets (including small ponies), and humans
of small stature and tender years.

Unless, of course, you are prepared to actively cull the excess population
of predators. Which does have some similarity to culling the deer.

In my limited experience, introducing one species to directly control
another species usually has unexpected/unintended side effects. Predators
adapt to the available prey, not just to the one you want reduced.

Then again, why not ask New Zealand if they would like some free Lynx.
I understand that they have major problems with wild deer as well as wild
boar and opossums. I'm sure they would be very grateful for the gift.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

In article ,
says...
-- Regards Bob Hobden Posting to this Newsgroup from the W.of London. UK

In all the comment, there has been very little about the predator/prey
cycle.

If there are a lot of prey, then the predators breed and expand because of
an "unlimited" food supply.


Much depends on the reproductive habit of the species. According to

http://www.lynxuk.org/lynx.html

European lynx produce just one litter of 2 or 3 kittens per mother
per year.

Janet

In article ,
David wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 22:45:30 +0100, Bob Hobden wrote:

Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked in
some other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control
the Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

In all the comment, there has been very little about the predator/prey
cycle.

If there are a lot of prey, then the predators breed and expand because of
an "unlimited" food supply.

At some point the number of predators rises enough that they no longer
have a guaranteed food supply and they compete for the remaining prey.

The prey population drops dramatically because they are being over
predated/consumed, and then the predators starve and die off in turn.

The pressure is then off the prey, who start to breed again and expand in
numbers.

Rinse and repeat.

However in one part of the cycle you have a large number of starving
predators with little or no natural prey - this is always assuming that
the Lynx is a good little wild pussy and only preys on the deer you are
hoping to control.

No, that is a common error. That CAN happen, but predators more often
stabilise the populations. The point is that unpredated herbivores
increase until their population exceeds the winter food supply,
whereupon many or most of them starve to death. That is what kills
a lot of red deer in the Highlands.

[Having seen a black fallow deer very recently, anything that can tackle
that can tackle most farm animals and domestic pets.]

They are a lot smaller than almost all cattle. But lynx aren't
really a predator of them, anyway - more of roe deer and hares.
Yes, they would kill young or weak fallow.

So before championing the return of Lynx and wolves you have to be very
sure that when they are over populated and starving they will not be a
threat to farm animals, domestic pets (including small ponies), and humans
of small stature and tender years.

Well, that isn't a problem elsewhere in Europe, except occasionally
for sheep. No, a lynx wouldn't tackle a pony and have never been
known to attack humans.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 May 2015 18:57:32 +0100, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

"Chris Hogg" wrote

Fuschia wrote:

(Larry Stoter) wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:

"Bob Hobden" wrote
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked
in
some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control
the
Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK -
because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Lynx are without doubt lovely creatures.
But if there is an excessive deer population, wouldn't it be better
for humans to eat them rather than import wild animals to do the job?

Venison is delicious and much more healthy than most farm animals.

and culling by a trained marksman is surely more humane that being
chased, brought down and gored to death by a lynx.

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!


They didn't "die out" it is believed they were hunted to extinction for
their fur. They are native to this country and, like the beaver, I see no
reason not to get them back.

You've not read the posts by Shazzbat, MN and myself on that topic,
just preceding yours, then.

As for a marksman kill being a more humane death what on earth has that to
do with anything? You would have all the carnivores starve to death
because
what they do is not humane?

Of course not, but if lynx aren't re-introduced here in the first
place, they won't be killing to stay alive, will they.

Yes a lot of deer are shot including in the
Royal Parks but they have bred alarmingly in the UK without natural
predators and we now see Muntjak, for example everywhere, including urban
gardens.

I presume by your comment you disagree with the reintroduction of the
Great
Bustard, and the Beaver etc.

Not particularly. I'm neutral about it. But they are benign compared
to the lynx.

--

Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales

"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 04/05/2015 21:58, Christina Websell wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

Agree.

Tell that to all the folk making a mint from the ornithological tourism in
the Hebrides and West Highlands after the re-introduction of the white
tailed sea eagle.
--
Phil Cook

Which is not quite the same as having lynx, is it? they will be a perfect
nuisance around poultry and sheep. I say NO.

On 12/05/2015 20:56, Christina Websell wrote:
"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 04/05/2015 21:58, Christina Websell wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

Agree.

Tell that to all the folk making a mint from the ornithological tourism in
the Hebrides and West Highlands after the re-introduction of the white
tailed sea eagle.


Which is not quite the same as having lynx, is it? they will be a perfect
nuisance around poultry and sheep. I say NO.

I've seen a white tailed sea eagle facing off with a ewe over a dead
lamb. Those birds aren't small.
--
Phil Cook

"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2015 20:56, Christina Websell wrote:
"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 04/05/2015 21:58, Christina Websell wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

Agree.

Tell that to all the folk making a mint from the ornithological tourism
in
the Hebrides and West Highlands after the re-introduction of the white
tailed sea eagle.


Which is not quite the same as having lynx, is it? they will be a
perfect
nuisance around poultry and sheep. I say NO.

I've seen a white tailed sea eagle facing off with a ewe over a dead lamb.
Those birds aren't small.
--
and your point is?
There not room for lynxes (or wolves) to be reintroduced here and I just
wish people would stop banging on about it.
Yes once upon a time we had them, in the 17th century. i have enough
nuisance with foxes without lynxes or wolves being reintroduced.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry Stoter wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked
in some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the
Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Whatever you think, proposals for the reintroduction of Lynx are in the
pipeline, see:

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...P=share_btn_tw

Unfortunately, due to the hysteria of the ignorant, it is unlikely to
be in time to save many of the UK's woodland underplants and animals
(including birds and butterflies). I don't expect to live to see the
deer menace (and it IS an ecological menace) alleviated.

Nick Maclaren.

No deer menace in my part of the UK.

On 13/05/2015 22:24, Christina Websell wrote:
"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2015 20:56, Christina Websell wrote:
"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 04/05/2015 21:58, Christina Websell wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

Agree.

Tell that to all the folk making a mint from the ornithological tourism
in
the Hebrides and West Highlands after the re-introduction of the white
tailed sea eagle.


Which is not quite the same as having lynx, is it? they will be a
perfect
nuisance around poultry and sheep. I say NO.

I've seen a white tailed sea eagle facing off with a ewe over a dead lamb.
Those birds aren't small.
--
and your point is?
There not room for lynxes (or wolves) to be reintroduced here and I just
wish people would stop banging on about it.
Yes once upon a time we had them, in the 17th century. i have enough
nuisance with foxes without lynxes or wolves being reintroduced.

People said (and some still do) that there was no room for white
tailed sea eagles either. My point is that the reintroduction of them
has resulted in a boost for the tourist industry. It is estimated that
the 6,000 people visiting the island of Mull to see the eagles created
a £2 million boost to the local economy in 2010.
--
Phil Cook

Phil Cook wrote:

On 13/05/2015 22:24, Christina Websell wrote:
"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2015 20:56, Christina Websell wrote:
"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 04/05/2015 21:58, Christina Websell wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

Agree.

Tell that to all the folk making a mint from the ornithological tourism
in
the Hebrides and West Highlands after the re-introduction of the white
tailed sea eagle.


Which is not quite the same as having lynx, is it? they will be a
perfect
nuisance around poultry and sheep. I say NO.

I've seen a white tailed sea eagle facing off with a ewe over a dead lamb.
Those birds aren't small.
--
and your point is?
There not room for lynxes (or wolves) to be reintroduced here and I just
wish people would stop banging on about it.
Yes once upon a time we had them, in the 17th century. i have enough
nuisance with foxes without lynxes or wolves being reintroduced.

People said (and some still do) that there was no room for white
tailed sea eagles either. My point is that the reintroduction of them
has resulted in a boost for the tourist industry. It is estimated that
the 6,000 people visiting the island of Mull to see the eagles created
a £2 million boost to the local economy in 2010.

Given that most people never see the 100,000s of deer that cover most of
the UK, I very much doubt that most people would ever see a Lynx.

And there are areas of the UK where there is plenty of room of Lynx as
well as people - Mid-Wales, Thetford Forest, parts of N England and
Scotland.

I imagine the first reintroductions will be with radio-tagged animals
which can be tracked and carefully monitored.

I would also add, that in my opinion, wild Lynx are going to be a lot
less dangerous to people and live stock than some of the dogs that are
running around our cities and countryside. Near where I live, the same
dog has killed and injured something like like 10 sheep and lambs over
the past couple of months. The farmer has, so far, restrained himself
from shooting the dog - many farmer would have shot the dog as soon as
they saw it worrying sheep.

Larry

Christina Websell wrote:

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry Stoter wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's worked
in some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control the
Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK - because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Whatever you think, proposals for the reintroduction of Lynx are in the
pipeline, see:

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...wilding-britai
n-wildlife-countryside?CMP=share_btn_tw

Unfortunately, due to the hysteria of the ignorant, it is unlikely to be
in time to save many of the UK's woodland underplants and animals
(including birds and butterflies). I don't expect to live to see the
deer menace (and it IS an ecological menace) alleviated.

Nick Maclaren.

No deer menace in my part of the UK.

There are100,000s of deer across the UK - most people simply never see
them or are aware they are there. Apart from dropping, the failure of
woodlands to regenerate is a clear sign of lots of deer.

Larry