I have what I think must be a perennial Helianthus flowering atm in a
narrow border bounded by a lawn, but I have to keep digging out
spreading roots every spring or it would muscle everything else out. It
either just arrived or was there when we moved in as I don't recall ever
planting one and it's not really in the best place. The flowers are
cheery though and the stems stand up well and don't need staking, so
every year I forgive it until the following spring.

Are there any tallish (4- 5ft) Heliopsis or Helianthus varieties, or
something similar, with pale lemon flowers I could plant elsewhere that
wouldn't try and take over the entire bed? I want an idea for a mainly
sunny position at the back of another border.
--
Sue

"Sue" wrote in message
o.uk...
I have what I think must be a perennial Helianthus flowering atm in a
narrow border bounded by a lawn, but I have to keep digging out
spreading roots every spring or it would muscle everything else out. It
either just arrived or was there when we moved in as I don't recall ever
planting one and it's not really in the best place. The flowers are
cheery though and the stems stand up well and don't need staking, so
every year I forgive it until the following spring.

Are there any tallish (4- 5ft) Heliopsis or Helianthus varieties, or
something similar, with pale lemon flowers I could plant elsewhere that
wouldn't try and take over the entire bed? I want an idea for a mainly
sunny position at the back of another border.
--
Sue


Lemon Queen is good stays in a clump (all be it a rapidly expanding one!)

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

"Sacha" wrote On 2012-08-09 13:26:03 +0100,
"Charlie Pridham"
said:
Lemon Queen is good stays in a clump (all be it a rapidly expanding
one!)

Just the one I'd go for. It's a lovely plant. Inula flowers well for
quite a while but tends to be a bit thuggy here and it's probably not
pale enough.

Thanks Charlie and Sacha. I don't think the one I have already can be
Lemon Queen, which looks in pictures to be a more attractive and paler
shade.
--
Sue

On 09/08/2012 17:24, Sue wrote:

"Sacha" wrote On 2012-08-09 13:26:03 +0100,
"Charlie Pridham"
said:
Lemon Queen is good stays in a clump (all be it a rapidly expanding
one!)

Just the one I'd go for. It's a lovely plant. Inula flowers well for
quite a while but tends to be a bit thuggy here and it's probably not
pale enough.

Thanks Charlie and Sacha. I don't think the one I have already can be
Lemon Queen, which looks in pictures to be a more attractive and paler
shade.



I have Helianthus 'Lemon Queen' and, whilst it isn't the worst thug I've
come across, it can still smother more polite plants, makes a strong mat
of almost woody stoloniferous roots and a lesser mat of old roots, which
have to be cleared before anything else can be planted.

I did wonder about Anthemis tinctoria 'E.C. Buxton' which is a pretty
soft lemon, but it is more of a sub-shrub than a spreading perennial and
is probably less than hardy in some areas. It is, anyway, one of those
rather short-lived plants, so you would need to take cuttings from time
to time.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Spider" wrote
"Sacha" wrote On 2012-08-09 13:26:03 +0100,
"Charlie Pridham"
said:
Lemon Queen is good stays in a clump (all be it a rapidly expanding
one!)

Just the one I'd go for. It's a lovely plant. Inula flowers well for
quite a while but tends to be a bit thuggy here and it's probably
not pale enough.

Thanks Charlie and Sacha. I don't think the one I have already can be
Lemon Queen, which looks in pictures to be a more attractive and
paler shade.

I have Helianthus 'Lemon Queen' and, whilst it isn't the worst thug
I've come across, it can still smother more polite plants, makes a
strong mat of almost woody stoloniferous roots and a lesser mat of old
roots, which have to be cleared before anything else can be planted.

The roots of this one are indeed fleshy, spreading stolon type but I've
not let it ever make a large enough clump to find out if it gets too
woody and difficult to deal with. Usually the roots dig out easily
enough each spring.. it's just that more seem to be lurking secretly,
ready to spring up new shoots when I've stopped looking. Maybe it's
reseeding itself every autumn and these are seedlings.

I did wonder about Anthemis tinctoria 'E.C. Buxton' which is a pretty
soft lemon, but it is more of a sub-shrub than a spreading perennial
and is probably less than hardy in some areas. It is, anyway, one of
those rather short-lived plants, so you would need to take cuttings
from time to time.

I do have that Anthemis in another border which isn't happy where it is
and really needs moving. Agree it's a good lemony shade although
probably too sprawly for the rear of border place I had in mind.

Sorry for taking so long to follow up but I've got round to taking some
snaps of the Helianthemum at last - it was too windy over the weekend.
Does this look too deep a shade to be Lemon Queen? I included one of
stems and leaves as well. It's only flowering at about 4ft or so atm,
which is
surprising in view of all the rain we've had. I have known it to be 5' -
6' some years.

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjBnvybf

If anyone's got any other ideas for a well-behaved, tallish, lemon or
creamy-yellow flowering plant to stand up at the back of a border I'm
still dithering over what to put in there.

--
Sue

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2012-08-09 13:22:57 +0100, "Sue" said:
[...]
Are there any tallish (4- 5ft) Heliopsis or Helianthus varieties, or
something similar, with pale lemon flowers I could plant elsewhere
that wouldn't try and take over the entire bed? I want an idea for a
mainly sunny position at the back of another border.

I've just had a thought. What about some of the taller Rudbeckias like
'Herbstonne' or 'Goldquelle'.

Oh yes, I hadn't thought about Rudbeckias. The shorter 'Goldstrum' is
doing alright to the front but there are all sorts of heights and
shades, aren't there. I'll google around and see which are thought to
have the most drought resistance. Thanks.

Just realised I'd managed in a senior moment to label my interloper
Helianthus as 'Helianthemum' on the pix the other night. Um... Now
hopefully corrected! http://flic.kr/s/aHsjBnvybf

Do you think it's Lemon Queen or some other variety, Sacha? It does seem
too bright a yellow to me. Gaudy and coarse, my OH said - hah! He's the
one who refuses to appreciate how nice daisies and pink clover are in
the lawn, so what does he know.

--
Sue

On 13/08/2012 15:03, Sue wrote:

"Spider" wrote
"Sacha" wrote On 2012-08-09 13:26:03 +0100,
"Charlie Pridham"
said:
Lemon Queen is good stays in a clump (all be it a rapidly expanding
one!)

Just the one I'd go for. It's a lovely plant. Inula flowers well for
quite a while but tends to be a bit thuggy here and it's probably
not pale enough.

Thanks Charlie and Sacha. I don't think the one I have already can be
Lemon Queen, which looks in pictures to be a more attractive and
paler shade.

I have Helianthus 'Lemon Queen' and, whilst it isn't the worst thug
I've come across, it can still smother more polite plants, makes a
strong mat of almost woody stoloniferous roots and a lesser mat of old
roots, which have to be cleared before anything else can be planted.

The roots of this one are indeed fleshy, spreading stolon type but I've
not let it ever make a large enough clump to find out if it gets too
woody and difficult to deal with. Usually the roots dig out easily
enough each spring.. it's just that more seem to be lurking secretly,
ready to spring up new shoots when I've stopped looking. Maybe it's
reseeding itself every autumn and these are seedlings.

I did wonder about Anthemis tinctoria 'E.C. Buxton' which is a pretty
soft lemon, but it is more of a sub-shrub than a spreading perennial
and is probably less than hardy in some areas. It is, anyway, one of
those rather short-lived plants, so you would need to take cuttings
from time to time.

I do have that Anthemis in another border which isn't happy where it is
and really needs moving. Agree it's a good lemony shade although
probably too sprawly for the rear of border place I had in mind.

Sorry for taking so long to follow up but I've got round to taking some
snaps of the Helianthemum at last - it was too windy over the weekend.
Does this look too deep a shade to be Lemon Queen? I included one of
stems and leaves as well. It's only flowering at about 4ft or so atm,
which is
surprising in view of all the rain we've had. I have known it to be 5' -
6' some years.

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjBnvybf

If anyone's got any other ideas for a well-behaved, tallish, lemon or
creamy-yellow flowering plant to stand up at the back of a border I'm
still dithering over what to put in there.




That 'fleshy' description makes me wonder if you've actually got
Jerusulem Artichoke flowers. Whatever they are, you're in need of
changing them. I've even thought of some of the lovely soft yellow
Echinaceas, but they all seem to be too short. Pity.
I'll keep thinking about it. No hardship, I love yellowy flowers.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Sacha" wrote
On 2012-08-15 14:37:04 +0100, "Sue" said:
Just realised I'd managed in a senior moment to label my interloper
Helianthus as 'Helianthemum' on the pix the other night. Um... Now
hopefully corrected! http://flic.kr/s/aHsjBnvybf

Do you think it's Lemon Queen or some other variety, Sacha? It does
seem too bright a yellow to me. Gaudy and coarse, my OH said - hah!
He's the one who refuses to appreciate how nice daisies and pink
clover are in the lawn, so what does he know.

If we still have any, I'll check our Lemon Queen tomorrow but I think
it's paler than yours. Of course, soil types etc. can make a
difference, and so can colour registers in photos. I'll have a look
and see if I can find anything that helps.

Yes, true. Lots of variation in the online pics I looked at.

Thanks.

--
Sue

"Spider" wrote:
On 13/08/2012 15:03, Sue wrote:
The roots of this one are indeed fleshy, spreading stolon type but
I've not let it ever make a large enough clump to find out if it gets
too woody and difficult to deal with. Usually the roots dig out
easily enough each spring.. it's just that more seem to be lurking
secretly, ready to spring up new shoots when I've stopped looking.
Maybe it's reseeding itself every autumn and these are seedlings.
[...]
Sorry for taking so long to follow up but I've got round to taking
some snaps of the Helianthemum at last - it was too windy over the
weekend.
Does this look too deep a shade to be Lemon Queen? I included one of
stems and leaves as well. It's only flowering at about 4ft or so atm,
which is surprising in view of all the rain we've had. I have known
it to be 5' - 6' some years.

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjBnvybf

If anyone's got any other ideas for a well-behaved, tallish, lemon or
creamy-yellow flowering plant to stand up at the back of a border I'm
still dithering over what to put in there.

That 'fleshy' description makes me wonder if you've actually got
Jerusulem Artichoke flowers.

Goodness, now you come to mention it, and looking at pics, they might
well be. The flowers do look very similar to what's growing outside! I
had no idea Jerusalem artichokes were a type of Helianthus root.
One webpage I read said the seed is sometimes added as a constituent of
birdseed, so it could well have got there in the first place from being
dropped by a passing bird. It's certainly a survivor, whatever it is.

From memory, without actually excavating atm, it does have sort of
swollen, fleshy, elongated tuberish parts on the roots, but they're not
particularly knobbly, and I'd never have imagined they were edible or
substantial enough to crop. I've never cooked artichokes but various
online pics of the tubers show some are smoother and longer, so perhaps!

Whatever they are, you're in need of changing them. I've even thought
of some of the lovely soft yellow Echinaceas, but they all seem to be
too short. Pity. I'll keep thinking about it. No hardship, I love
yellowy flowers.

Yes, me too. Particularly creamy yellows - they seem to blend in so well
with almost anything and still give a touch of sunshine.

Thanks Spider.
--
Sue

On 16/08/2012 11:36, Sue wrote:

"Spider" wrote:
On 13/08/2012 15:03, Sue wrote:
The roots of this one are indeed fleshy, spreading stolon type but
I've not let it ever make a large enough clump to find out if it gets
too woody and difficult to deal with. Usually the roots dig out
easily enough each spring.. it's just that more seem to be lurking
secretly, ready to spring up new shoots when I've stopped looking.
Maybe it's reseeding itself every autumn and these are seedlings.
[...]
Sorry for taking so long to follow up but I've got round to taking
some snaps of the Helianthemum at last - it was too windy over the
weekend.
Does this look too deep a shade to be Lemon Queen? I included one of
stems and leaves as well. It's only flowering at about 4ft or so atm,
which is surprising in view of all the rain we've had. I have known
it to be 5' - 6' some years.

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjBnvybf

If anyone's got any other ideas for a well-behaved, tallish, lemon or
creamy-yellow flowering plant to stand up at the back of a border I'm
still dithering over what to put in there.

That 'fleshy' description makes me wonder if you've actually got
Jerusulem Artichoke flowers.

Goodness, now you come to mention it, and looking at pics, they might
well be. The flowers do look very similar to what's growing outside! I
had no idea Jerusalem artichokes were a type of Helianthus root.
One webpage I read said the seed is sometimes added as a constituent of
birdseed, so it could well have got there in the first place from being
dropped by a passing bird. It's certainly a survivor, whatever it is.

From memory, without actually excavating atm, it does have sort of
swollen, fleshy, elongated tuberish parts on the roots, but they're not
particularly knobbly, and I'd never have imagined they were edible or
substantial enough to crop. I've never cooked artichokes but various
online pics of the tubers show some are smoother and longer, so perhaps!

Whatever they are, you're in need of changing them. I've even thought
of some of the lovely soft yellow Echinaceas, but they all seem to be
too short. Pity. I'll keep thinking about it. No hardship, I love
yellowy flowers.

Yes, me too. Particularly creamy yellows - they seem to blend in so well
with almost anything and still give a touch of sunshine.

Thanks Spider.



Just had a thought, Sue. Although they're not daisy flowers, I'm
wondering if one of the soft buttery-lemon Verbascums would suit you?
They would give you the height you need, something close to the colour
you want, and the possible addition of an 'eye' in another colour, which
may be useful when blending them in with your existing plants.
They also appeal to bees, which is a plus in my book.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Spider" wrote
On 16/08/2012 11:36, Sue wrote:

"Spider" wrote:
[...]
Whatever they are, you're in need of changing them. I've even
thought of some of the lovely soft yellow Echinaceas, but they all
seem to be too short. Pity. I'll keep thinking about it. No
hardship, I love yellowy flowers.

Yes, me too. Particularly creamy yellows - they seem to blend in so
well with almost anything and still give a touch of sunshine.

Thanks Spider.

Just had a thought, Sue. Although they're not daisy flowers, I'm
wondering if one of the soft buttery-lemon Verbascums would suit you?
They would give you the height you need, something close to the colour
you want, and the possible addition of an 'eye' in another colour,
which may be useful when blending them in with your existing plants.
They also appeal to bees, which is a plus in my book.

Yes, that would work. Thanks.Nice spire shapes in a soft yellow or pale
apricot would fit in very well. There are some good ones shown in
Cotswold GF's encyclopaedia.
http://www.cgf.net/plants.aspx?id=8&...enus=VERBASCUM

I also thought about lemon Hollyhocks, but they've never done very well
here in the past, which is a pity because I love good old Hollyhocks in
any colour. They remind me of the house where I was born; my mother
always had some in our back garden.

--
Sue

"Sacha" wrote
On 2012-08-17 11:46:34 +0100, "Sue" said:
I also thought about lemon Hollyhocks, but they've never done very
well here in the past, which is a pity because I love good old
Hollyhocks in any colour. They remind me of the house where I was
born; my mother always had some in our back garden.

We love Hollyhocks but they always seem to get rust here. Too damp
and warm, I expect. We saw masses of them growing in parts of Norfolk
and they looked absolutely fantastic. The Verbascum is a very good
idea but V. bombyciferum is probably too big and spreading for you.
There's a beauty called 'Jackie' and another lovely one called Wedding
Candles. But for your pale lemon colour, V. Gainsborough is a gorgeous
plant. Very good idea, Spider.

V. Gainsborough, or similar, added to list...

We used to have V.bombyciferum seeding in from somewhere at one time.
The neighbour thought they were mine and I thought they were hers so
they came elsewhere. The first year it arrived I had no idea what this
enormous grey-leaved thing was going to turn into, so I left it to find
out. They got huuuuuge! Trouble is the lovely rosettes of leaves were
always chewed to shreds by caterpillars, so they never looked as good as
they should.

Hollyhocks ought to do okay here. In my dad's present garden they just
grow themselves and seed around, coming up in different colours and the
like. There are some in a cottage garden only a few hundred yards down
the road from me which always look magnificent, but mine were hopelessly
weedy and rusty every time I planted them, whether seed grown or bought
plants. Probably I just need greener fingers.

--
Sue