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#16
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
FarmI wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message Can you see where the anger comes from, when to complain is to be accused of having "drunk to much progressive Kool-Aid"? That is an invective, not an argument. Just use your killfile. If you and David didn't reply to him/her/it, I wouldn't have to see what he/her/it writes. I think errors need to be corrected but I will try to stay more on topic. D |
#17
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
Billy wrote:
In article , "David Hare-Scott" wrote: Billy wrote: In article , wrote: Billy wrote: Obviously, investment bankers aren't fellow men, because they can make a mess out of the myth of a free market. LOL! That's too rich. No offense, but that you would make such a blanket statement leads me to believe you ignorant of what investment bankers do in the economy and to suspect you have drunk of the "progressive" Kool-Aide. Neither here nor there in a gardening forum, though, eh? Needling a little but well able to be passed over. If I wanted a drunken fool, you'd be my pick. Taking as much offence as possible and returning more. What is the point in making it personal? Why must somebody who disagrees with you be a bad person? David I love dialogue. We all get trapped between our ears, and need a fresh view in order to have more grist for the mills of our minds to work on. Presently, in the U.S. of A., we have, essentially, angry mobs running around blaming the huge deficits on Obama, and calling for the return of the Republicans that got us into this hole to begin with. Now, don't misunderstand me, Obama is a jerk. He thinks that the progressives have nowhere else to go, and that he can continue on as a new and improved George Bush. However, if he was the man that was elected, he would have had investigations into the Bush Administration. He would have stopped the torture, and he would have brought our soldiers home, but he hasn't. He doesn't talk about coming home (Now we talk of war in Indonesia, Somalia, and Venezuela). He talks about being out of Iraq, where we still have 50,000 troops, god knows how many mercenaries, an embassy that is large as 80 football fields (427,829 sq. m.), and a State Department staff armed with Black Hawk helicopters, drones, M1 Abrams tanks, and some 5,000 mercenaries. Would you like to "super size" your visa? However, as I have just said, we are where we are because of Republican lying, and Democratic acquiescence. We have 2 choices in this country, the smiling fascists (Democrats), or the full-tilt crazies (Republicans). Where I can, I'll vote third party, but the Republican party is alway a clear and present danger. Here in California, the "Better Business" people have thrown their lot behind the Republicans. Needless to say, the better it is for business, the worse it is for consumers. We need to shut down the War Department and their suppliers. Stop subsidizing fossil fuel extraction, and nail Wall Street investment bankers to the wall by their balls. Merrill Lynch was given $10 billion by American tax-payers to buy back junk stock that they had created, and they paid themselves $3.6 billion in bonuses!! Can you see where the anger comes from, when to complain is to be accused of having "drunk to much progressive Kool-Aid"? That is an invective, not an argument. This stupidity has to stop, and that is why it is personal. I have hung way out on a limb here. If someone wants to make a fool of me, all they have to do is chop it off. In the mean time, I'm not going to make the mob hysteria thing easy, if I can help it. People need to think, and not just go into a knee jerk reaction, if someone is a Muslim, or a Mexican. We just had a taxi driver slashed in New York with a knife. His offense? He was a Muslim. Otherwise, you are quite right, and the criticism is noted. Kill any more honey bees lately, "Bonehead"? I mean, this guy want to be the King of Stupid. Grrrrr The madness will end, when the currencies of the world collapse. Then almost everyone will be poor. A new kind of government will be created. Perhaps a new world government? Perhaps a new world currency without a world government? The chaos may last a long time between then and now. First there were local tribes, then city states, then nations, then .... The next step is a one world government. The next step in evolution of our planet. Each time during these long transitions is a harsh period of wars and turmoil. Those that grow and preserve their own food will do better than those who do not. Those living in the country will do better than those living in the city. -- Enjoy Life... Dan L (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
#18
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p"
wrote: A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no luck growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't delicious with superb flavor and few seeds. They are just very selective about conditions which is why less-fussy hybrids have been produced. I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant. Kate middle TN |
#19
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
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#20
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:38:13 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote: wrote: On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p" wrote: A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no luck growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't delicious with superb flavor and few seeds. They are just very selective about conditions which is why less-fussy hybrids have been produced. I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant. Kate middle TN The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. I think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. Or maybe I just like Better Boy. I do dabble with other varieties, mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's, and the BB's usually win. Bob I'm fond of Bradley's, which do well here, but the "real" Bradley's, not the ones from Home depot etc. I found seeds online a few years back and they were prolific and acidic. I also liked First Ladies when I was growing them. I grew Taxi's one year, but I guess the yellow's are too mellow for me. (And they didn't sell well either.) Kate |
#22
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
On Sep 10, 5:35*pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
zxcvbob wrote: wrote: On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p" wrote: A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. *I have had no luck growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't delicious with superb flavor and few seeds. They are just very selective about conditions which is why less-fussy hybrids have been produced. I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant. Kate middle TN The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. *I think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. *Or maybe I just like Better Boy. *I do dabble with other varieties, mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's, and the BB's usually win. Bob Having fresh produce that is fully naturally ripened is often more important that the cultivar or the way it was raised. *The best example of this is stone fruit, if you have never eaten a peach ripened on the tree you have never tasted the real thing. David OMG you take me back...back to the long-ago days when my (late) peach tree bore so profusely, I was spending all day climbing up and down my ladder to pick! In addition to eating fresh, I made ICE CREAM with the finest cream, home-grown eggs, etc. Un-effing-believable! |
#23
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
David Hare-Scott wrote:
zxcvbob wrote: wrote: On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p" wrote: A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no luck growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't delicious with superb flavor and few seeds. They are just very selective about conditions which is why less-fussy hybrids have been produced. I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant. Kate middle TN The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. I think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. Or maybe I just like Better Boy. I do dabble with other varieties, mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's, and the BB's usually win. Bob Having fresh produce that is fully naturally ripened is often more important that the cultivar or the way it was raised. The best example of this is stone fruit, if you have never eaten a peach ripened on the tree you have never tasted the real thing. David I haven't eaten a real peach in 20 years. (I used to have peach trees so I know what a real peach is.) They won't grow up here. Bob |
#24
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Having fresh produce that is fully naturally ripened is often more important that the cultivar or the way it was raised. The best example of this is stone fruit, if you have never eaten a peach ripened on the tree you have never tasted the real thing. Apricots! I can't grow them here but I adore good ones. Impossible to buy. |
#25
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
David Hare-Scott wrote:
zxcvbob wrote: wrote: On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p" wrote: A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no luck growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't delicious with superb flavor and few seeds. They are just very selective about conditions which is why less-fussy hybrids have been produced. I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant. Kate middle TN The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. I think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. Or maybe I just like Better Boy. I do dabble with other varieties, mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's, and the BB's usually win. Bob Having fresh produce that is fully naturally ripened is often more important that the cultivar or the way it was raised. The best example of this is stone fruit, if you have never eaten a peach ripened on the tree you have never tasted the real thing. David I think there is more to it than just ripening on the tree. When we visit California, we can get tree ripened peaches, but they still taste like plastic. In Ohio, where the trees have to survive through a cold winter, the tree ripened peaches are superb, to the point where when we go to the farmers' market, we are careful to only buy Ohio peaches. We visited a village (Iserables) half way up a mountain in Switzerland, and their main crop is apricots. They weren't in season when we were there, but the liquor they make from them was very tasty. Far tastier than the apricots grown in an irrigated desert in the US. I planted one Brandywine this year, and it has struggled, producing few tomatoes. The Better Boy variety we planted has produced much more fruit of equal or better taste. |
#26
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote: Sure the choice of cultivar and growing conditions will help but for the person newly come to growing their own, real freshness and ripeness are the things that will knock their socks off if all they have ever had is from the supermarket. All this is assuming of course that they can actually taste fruit and vegetables properly. An acquaintance who is a heavy smoker doesn't know what all the fuss is about. To give some other examples; asparagus fresh cut is sweetish and can be eaten raw with pleasure or blanched for only a few minutes. A fresh cabbage is sweet and "alive" compared to the one cold-stored for weeks. There is a good reason for this, the plant is still alive in storage and the metabolism converts the sugars to starches. Also I suspect other processes subtly change the flavour. David We have 5 senses when possible use them all. Storage seems to diminish sense of smell which relates to taste. Can hide subtle spoilage with spices but the best is breaking a asparagus nibbling and walking about trying to envision the coming meal. -- Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0JfdP36kI |
#27
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Quote:
heirlooms. However, I don't mind spending a few bucks for a pack of seeds. For the home gardener, the price of seed don't matter near as much as it would to a large commercial operation that sets thousands of plants. My slow release granular fertilizer costs me a lot more than |
#28
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
On 9/19/2010 8:38 AM, lenco12 wrote:
No Name;899769 Wrote: (EVP MAN) wrote: - The hybrids looked better, tasted better and produced much better. Say what you want about heirlooms but I won't give them garden space again. Hybrids all the way for this PA gardener from now on!- LOL! I expressed precisely the same viewpoint very much earlier this year. Early on, I composted all of my "Brandywine" except one and, based on yield, keeping _it_ was a waste of good dirt. As I see it, entertaining this, that, or the-other "heirloom" is foisting upon oneself all of the reasons reliable hybrids were developed in the first place. Who needs it? But then, again, I am neither tomato connoisseur nor among the "heirloom" cognoscenti, I suppose. Sentiment or some irrational "doomsday" fear are not among the reasons that I grow vegetables. -- Derald Yes I would imagine the price of seed would go up if it weren't for heirlooms. However, I don't mind spending a few bucks for a pack of seeds. For the home gardener, the price of seed don't matter near as much as it would to a large commercial operation that sets thousands of plants. My slow release granular fertilizer costs me a lot more than I'm going to save seeds from my Better Boys this year (even though it's a hybrid) and plant them next year. They *might* be crossed with Stupice that was planted next to them, but I doubt it. I've done this before with hybrids and it usually works just fine for a home gardener. To much variability though for most commercial growers. Bob |
#29
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No More Heirloom Tomatoes For Me!
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 14:33:46 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote: On 9/19/2010 8:38 AM, lenco12 wrote: No Name;899769 Wrote: (EVP MAN) wrote: - The hybrids looked better, tasted better and produced much better. Say what you want about heirlooms but I won't give them garden space again. Hybrids all the way for this PA gardener from now on!- LOL! I expressed precisely the same viewpoint very much earlier this year. Early on, I composted all of my "Brandywine" except one and, based on yield, keeping _it_ was a waste of good dirt. As I see it, entertaining this, that, or the-other "heirloom" is foisting upon oneself all of the reasons reliable hybrids were developed in the first place. Who needs it? But then, again, I am neither tomato connoisseur nor among the "heirloom" cognoscenti, I suppose. Sentiment or some irrational "doomsday" fear are not among the reasons that I grow vegetables. -- Derald Yes I would imagine the price of seed would go up if it weren't for heirlooms. However, I don't mind spending a few bucks for a pack of seeds. For the home gardener, the price of seed don't matter near as much as it would to a large commercial operation that sets thousands of plants. My slow release granular fertilizer costs me a lot more than I'm going to save seeds from my Better Boys this year (even though it's a hybrid) and plant them next year. They *might* be crossed with Stupice that was planted next to them, but I doubt it. I've done this before with hybrids and it usually works just fine for a home gardener. To much variability though for most commercial growers. Bob I've not done well with saved veggie seeds; they don't germinate well and/or produce a weird looking crop. I'd rather buy fresh each year, home gardening entails too much labor and expense to shoot oneself in the foot at the git-go by trying to save a few pennies on seed. I buy the smallest size packets and swap what I don't use with neighbor gardeners... most every community has a gardening club that maintains a seed bank... check at your local library. |
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