Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand. I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a motorized version.

"Guv Bob" wrote in message ...
Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand. I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a motorized version.

I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up weighing around 200 pounds.

"Guv Bob" wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row
of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand.
I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a
motorized version.

I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up weighing around 200 pounds.

I seriously doubt you are physically capable of moving that type of
aerator by hand unless it's always downhill and then it will aerate
you.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...Id=6970&ipp=24

Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

On 7/18/2014 6:36 PM, HomeGuy wrote:
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?


Spike aerators do more damage than they correct. They compact the soil
around the holes they create.

Plugging aerators loosen the soil by removing plugs. Where the soil is
heavy clay, this can be a great benefit. The holes permit water to
penetrate the surface, carrying nutrients towards roots. Believe it or
not, roots also benefit from the increase in oxygen reaching them.
Spike aerators prevent all this instead of permitting it.

Aeration can be important wherever there is foot traffic across a
planted area.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.

"Guv Bob" wrote in message m...
"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.

PS - This is out near the desert - not anywhere close to Long Beach.

On 7/18/2014 8:19 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.


I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it.
Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This
will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will
get good results.

Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment
in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:


I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it.
Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This
will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will
get good results.

Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment
in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum.

Which answers te question I was going to ask. We are quite rightly called "Clay
Township" and even aerating once a year for 5 years and twice for the
last 3 haven't made any noticable improvement in problem areas. Gypsum now and then aerate in the fall?
--
?Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.?
? Aaron Levenstein

On 7/19/2014 6:53 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:


I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it.
Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This
will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will
get good results.

Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment
in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum.

Which answers te question I was going to ask. We are quite rightly called "Clay
Township" and even aerating once a year for 5 years and twice for the
last 3 haven't made any noticable improvement in problem areas. Gypsum now and then aerate in the fall?


In my area, rain (if it ever falls again ) is in the winter. I apply
gypsum in November. Not having small children any more to run across my
small lawn, I do not need to mechanically aerate. (Visits from
grandchildren are an occasional treat.) When I had a larger lawn and
small children, I would mechanically aerate about two weeks after
applying gypsum. This would mean that I maximized the penetration of
rain.

The answer to your question thus depends on your climate.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 21:26:56 -0700, "David E. Ross"
wrote:

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.


I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it.
Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This
will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will
get good results.

Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment
in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum.


+1 on using gypsum. Use a coring aerator that removes the 2" plugs.
Scatter the gypsum and water the area. The gypsum helps break down the
clay so water can penetrate the soil - in my experience. Coring also
allows plenty of oxygen into the soil. Even a good time to over seed
with grass seed. Leave the plug cores on the ground and they
eventually break down in a week or so.

Oren wrote:

+1 on using gypsum. Use a coring aerator that removes the 2" plugs.
Scatter the gypsum and water the area. The gypsum helps break down
the clay so water can penetrate the soil - in my experience.

Coring also allows plenty of oxygen into the soil.

You guys (particularly you Oren) are full of so much shit on this topic
it's beyond belief.

Your ideas especially about oxygen are pulled straight out of your ass.

You have absolutely no idea what the gas permeability is of soil,
especially given all the different conditions you're going to encounter.

This guy (Bob) lives in what is becoming a desert (California, Long
Beach). His soil will be very dry and porous and this is not an issue
of getting more atmospheric gas in contact with roots.

The accepted treatment for patchy lawns growing in clay is to top-dress
frequently with top soil and throw in grass seed and fertilizer.

AND LOTS OF WATER - something the OP will not be able to do.

There are con artists that troll neighborhoods in the spring with
aerators they rent from Home Despot. I garantee you they do not bring
top soil or gypsum with them to rake into the holes as part of their con
jobs. And they set their plugs to barely reach 1.5 or 2" so they don't
cut any in-ground infrastructure (irrigation lines, telephone or RG-6
coax cable).

The OP has primarily a water problem, and either too much or too little
shade for his lawn to thrive. Throwing down a good amount of fertilizer
and water can do amazing things for a lawn, even in clay.

I live in the middle of the great lakes - this is clay central. My own
property is in an area that was once dug up decades ago for clay to make
bricks. I have never once aerated my lawn in 15 years of ownership. My
grass does very well in the areas I bother to take care of it.

And here I will give you one expert who is basically saying that adding
gypsum after the fact to an established lawn is full of shit:

http://web.extension.illinois.edu/as...AskSiteI D=34

==============
We often get this question about how to improve the structure of a soil
after plants or in your case a lawn has been installed. It is not easy
and often there is not a very efficient way of doing this because you
don't want to start over. Ideally we like to see soil improvement done
before planting and the best way is to incorporate a lot of organic
matter into the soil.

Many people think that gypsum is the magic cure for clay soils. While
gypsum is often suggested to help loosen up clay soil by getting between
the particles and helping to floculate or open up the soil for better
air and ater movement it often takes time and if a plant is there again
it can't be incorporated the way it should be.

The only way I think you can help a tight clay soil under sod is to do
vigorous core cultivation. This means using a machine that puts holes
into the ground that are at least 4 inches deep and about 1/2 to 3/4
inch in diameter with the holes being no more than 2 inches apart.

After that you can topdress with good soil that is worked into the holes
and allows air and water to start moving down and supporting good root
structure. Gypsum could be added but it isn't going to do the job as
well as if it were to be fully incorporated. Doing this coring regularly
will eventually start to "replace" the soil one core at a time allowing
a better soil environment for root development.
================

FOUR inches deep. Take note of that. Half inch to 3/4 diam, NO MORE
THAN 2 INCHES APART.

Your lawn is going to look like swiss cheese after that.

If you're going to do that, you might as well rototill the whole thing,
and ADD SAND. Playground or brick sand. That will probably work better
(and cheaper) than gypsum.

"Doing this coring regularly ..."

Who the hell wants to break their back doing that "regularly" ?

Either just top-dress once or twice a year, or rototill the whole dam
lawn, truck a good amount of the clay away and replace with some good
black earth and load it with some good grass seed and fertilize.

But again, maybe you're just wasting your time since you're in the
middle of a drought and who knows when it will end. Probably not a good
time (or a good decade) to try to do any lawn rehabilitation in
California.

On 7/19/2014 9:50 AM, HomeGuy wrote:
Oren wrote:

+1 on using gypsum. Use a coring aerator that removes the 2" plugs.
Scatter the gypsum and water the area. The gypsum helps break down
the clay so water can penetrate the soil - in my experience.

Coring also allows plenty of oxygen into the soil.

You guys (particularly you Oren) are full of so much shit on this topic
it's beyond belief.

Your ideas especially about oxygen are pulled straight out of your ass.

You have absolutely no idea what the gas permeability is of soil,
especially given all the different conditions you're going to encounter.

This guy (Bob) lives in what is becoming a desert (California, Long
Beach). His soil will be very dry and porous and this is not an issue
of getting more atmospheric gas in contact with roots.

The accepted treatment for patchy lawns growing in clay is to top-dress
frequently with top soil and throw in grass seed and fertilizer.

AND LOTS OF WATER - something the OP will not be able to do.

There are con artists that troll neighborhoods in the spring with
aerators they rent from Home Despot. I garantee you they do not bring
top soil or gypsum with them to rake into the holes as part of their con
jobs. And they set their plugs to barely reach 1.5 or 2" so they don't
cut any in-ground infrastructure (irrigation lines, telephone or RG-6
coax cable).

The OP has primarily a water problem, and either too much or too little
shade for his lawn to thrive. Throwing down a good amount of fertilizer
and water can do amazing things for a lawn, even in clay.

I live in the middle of the great lakes - this is clay central. My own
property is in an area that was once dug up decades ago for clay to make
bricks. I have never once aerated my lawn in 15 years of ownership. My
grass does very well in the areas I bother to take care of it.

And here I will give you one expert who is basically saying that adding
gypsum after the fact to an established lawn is full of shit:

http://web.extension.illinois.edu/as...AskSiteI D=34

==============
We often get this question about how to improve the structure of a soil
after plants or in your case a lawn has been installed. It is not easy
and often there is not a very efficient way of doing this because you
don't want to start over. Ideally we like to see soil improvement done
before planting and the best way is to incorporate a lot of organic
matter into the soil.

Many people think that gypsum is the magic cure for clay soils. While
gypsum is often suggested to help loosen up clay soil by getting between
the particles and helping to floculate or open up the soil for better
air and ater movement it often takes time and if a plant is there again
it can't be incorporated the way it should be.

The only way I think you can help a tight clay soil under sod is to do
vigorous core cultivation. This means using a machine that puts holes
into the ground that are at least 4 inches deep and about 1/2 to 3/4
inch in diameter with the holes being no more than 2 inches apart.

After that you can topdress with good soil that is worked into the holes
and allows air and water to start moving down and supporting good root
structure. Gypsum could be added but it isn't going to do the job as
well as if it were to be fully incorporated. Doing this coring regularly
will eventually start to "replace" the soil one core at a time allowing
a better soil environment for root development.
================

FOUR inches deep. Take note of that. Half inch to 3/4 diam, NO MORE
THAN 2 INCHES APART.

Your lawn is going to look like swiss cheese after that.

If you're going to do that, you might as well rototill the whole thing,
and ADD SAND. Playground or brick sand. That will probably work better
(and cheaper) than gypsum.

"Doing this coring regularly ..."

Who the hell wants to break their back doing that "regularly" ?

Either just top-dress once or twice a year, or rototill the whole dam
lawn, truck a good amount of the clay away and replace with some good
black earth and load it with some good grass seed and fertilize.

But again, maybe you're just wasting your time since you're in the
middle of a drought and who knows when it will end. Probably not a good
time (or a good decade) to try to do any lawn rehabilitation in
California.


You -- HomeGuy -- have just joined Todd in my filter system. Good-bye.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

HomeGuy wrote:
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.
Hi,
Not really, depends on where you live due to difference in
soil condition. I admire people talking in definitive and
subjective terms. When I lived in ON. I never used aerator.

David E. Ross wrote:
On 7/18/2014 6:36 PM, HomeGuy wrote:
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?


Spike aerators do more damage than they correct. They compact the soil
around the holes they create.

Plugging aerators loosen the soil by removing plugs. Where the soil is
heavy clay, this can be a great benefit. The holes permit water to
penetrate the surface, carrying nutrients towards roots. Believe it or
not, roots also benefit from the increase in oxygen reaching them.
Spike aerators prevent all this instead of permitting it.

Aeration can be important wherever there is foot traffic across a
planted area.

Hi,
+1. Definitely beneficial for healthy lawn in our locale.